5 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I agree with all of your post except one part, saying Havertz is like a German Loftus Cheek. Come on mate, you’re being harsh on Loftus Cheek.

He’s looking very good for Fulham at the moment, it’s possible we may see that Loftus Cheek again.

Obviously Ruben under Sarri was better than Havertz looks right now, Ruben has looked bad almost all season he just started playing relatively well in the past couple of games.

5 hours ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

Obviously Ruben under Sarri was better than Havertz looks right now, Ruben has looked bad almost all season he just started playing relatively well in the past couple of games.

Ruben and Hazard saved that season under Sarri. I said when we signed Havertz that there was nothing he could do that a fully fit Ruben couldn't. Matter of fact a fully fit Ruben uses his size better so may actually be a better player. .

The only knock on RLC has been his workrate and as we've seen Kai is no better in that regard.

 

 

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

Ruben and Hazard saved that season under Sarri. I said when we signed Havertz that there was nothing he could do that a fully fit Ruben couldn't. Matter of fact a fully fit Ruben uses his size better so may actually be a better player. .

The only knock on RLC has been his workrate and as we've seen Kai is no better in that regard.

 

 

Havertz scored around 50 goals in his career and he's 21 years old only. Just stop.

Makes me smile this thread. Such a lot of moaning and bitching. Very English in a weird way. 

11 hours ago, Brutos said:

I didn't see this much negativity after getting spanked by Arsenal reserves in what was a far worst performance than this. All the people being negative were singing a different tune after that match.

No amount of crying moaning getting triggered is going to unsack Lampard so suck it up and move on.

Think if you take the time to look back you'll see you are wrong.

I know many of were pissed off after the Arsenal game. Ruined f**king Christmas and majority of us said so. No-one is making out that everything was fine & dandy under Lamps - it clearly wasn't. But equally some clowns making out last night was an improvement or okay - they were obviously watching a different game to the dull-fest I watched.

The sideways passes was infuriating. Only CHO and Mount seemed interested in pushing it forward and creating. Thought Mount and CHO really took their chances. 
 

Chilwell, Ziyech and Giroud were poor. But I won’t be too harsh. We’ve been poor in attack all season so I don’t expect it change overnight. 

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Havertz scored around 50 goals in his career and he's 21 years old only. Just stop.

Mostly in a weaker 2-3 horse league.  Kezman had a good scoring record before he came to us as well.

15 hours ago, Gol15 said:

He could have just called Lampard/Sarri/Italy's national team but obviously he got it from me...

There's money in that @Gol15 ! 

50 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Mostly in a weaker 2-3 horse league.  Kezman had a good scoring record before he came to us as well.

We ruined him, like every number 9. Keep up!

54 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Mostly in a weaker 2-3 horse league.  Kezman had a good scoring record before he came to us as well.

Thankfully i saw this because i was going to say the exact same thing with Kezman.

57 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Mostly in a weaker 2-3 horse league.  Kezman had a good scoring record before he came to us as well.

Bundesliga so weak that they have a few teams reaching late stages of the CL, must be a glitch in your matrix change the battery!

That was an unbelievably frustrating game to watch, however we did start to resemble a football team that has been coached. 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Bundesliga so weak that they have a few teams reaching late stages of the CL, must be a glitch in your matrix change the battery!

Think we'd probably do the same if we had 6 competitive matches a season. At PSG even winning the league doesn't stop you getting sacked apparently! That's how competitive that league is.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Bundesliga so weak that they have a few teams reaching late stages of the CL, must be a glitch in your matrix change the battery!

Yes - as english isn't your first language you appear to have out an extra "a" in your sentence.

"Bundesliga so weak that they have a few teams reaching late stages of the CL"

There are 3 teams at best, so no-one with any knowledge of football can claim it to be a strong, competitive league.  Bayern currently would do well anywhere, possibly RB Leiptzig as they are at the moment.  Only Bayern have won the CL in the last 20 years and only Dortmund and Leverkeusen have reached the final in that time, so, yes Bundesliga IS comparatively weak.

Seems when your Havertz reaches a decent level league, he is nowhere near as prolific.

 

So, my matrix is fine, and, taking a leaf out of your sadly very boring book, I used google.  How about that.  Have they taught you the meaning of the word "petard" at school yet?

4 hours ago, JM7 said:

The sideways passes was infuriating. Only CHO and Mount seemed interested in pushing it forward and creating. Thought Mount and CHO really took their chances. 
 

Chilwell, Ziyech and Giroud were poor. But I won’t be too harsh. We’ve been poor in attack all season so I don’t expect it change overnight. 

 

5 hours ago, Nibs said:

Think if you take the time to look back you'll see you are wrong.

I know many of were pissed off after the Arsenal game. Ruined f**king Christmas and majority of us said so. No-one is making out that everything was fine & dandy under Lamps - it clearly wasn't. But equally some clowns making out last night was an improvement or okay - they were obviously watching a different game to the dull-fest I watched.

Last night was an improvement and it was more than ok. 

The result obviously didn't work out but Wolves had no interest in winning that game. 

They defended their 18 yard box plain and simple.

Chelsea were beyond dominant on the ball, pressed with structure and cohesion, were sharper and faster and had a clear vision of what they were trying to do. 

If you compare this performance to the first game in December at Molineux it's night and day. Wolves were in that match from minute 1. 

Wolves // Chelsea December 15:

Passes: 410 // 489

Tackles won: 11 // 3 

Shots: 12 // 14

Shots on target: 4 // 3

 

Chelsea // Wolves January 28

Passes:  887 // 238

Tackles won: 12 // 4

Shots: 12 // 4

Shots on target: 6 // 0

 

The difference, Chelsea controlled the match from start to finish and did it with a structure and intensity we haven't seen this season. Unfortunately, Wolves decided they wanted no part in trying to get a win and there's only so much you can do trying to score against a team using all 10 players to defend their third. 

The other stat that isn't there is the one Tuchel referred to which is how many times they regained possession in the Wolves third which was about 16. All this shows that Tuchel gave them clear instruction and they followed it almost perfectly.

I'm not saying Tuchel is here to stay for 10 years and will win us titles but there is stark differences in the performance yesterday compared to the rest of the season

 

13 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Yes - as english isn't your first language you appear to have out an extra "a" in your sentence.

"Bundesliga so weak that they have a few teams reaching late stages of the CL"

There are 3 teams at best, so no-one with any knowledge of football can claim it to be a strong, competitive league.  Bayern currently would do well anywhere, possibly RB Leiptzig as they are at the moment.  Only Bayern have won the CL in the last 20 years and only Dortmund and Leverkeusen have reached the final in that time, so, yes Bundesliga IS comparatively weak.

Seems when your Havertz reaches a decent level league, he is nowhere near as prolific.

 

So, my matrix is fine, and, taking a leaf out of your sadly very boring book, I used google.  How about that.  Have they taught you the meaning of the word "petard" at school yet?

Can't we say similar with the PL when we truly think about it? There's usually two outstanding teams with the rest reduced to being decent cup sides at best. The last four PL champions have picked up 99, 98, 100 and 93 points, when Barca/Madrid were doing that in La Liga that was supposedly the final proof needed it was a uncompetitive farmers league. 

The "competitive" nature of league's usually depends on how good the top teams are, La Liga is quite competitive right now because Real and Barca are average, in the 00's Bayern and Dortmund were underwhelming which allowed Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen and Stuttgart to pick up a title each. Now Bayern and Dortmund have got their act together no one's getting a look in.

33 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Yes - as english isn't your first language you appear to have out an extra "a" in your sentence.

"Bundesliga so weak that they have a few teams reaching late stages of the CL"

There are 3 teams at best, so no-one with any knowledge of football can claim it to be a strong, competitive league.  Bayern currently would do well anywhere, possibly RB Leiptzig as they are at the moment.  Only Bayern have won the CL in the last 20 years and only Dortmund and Leverkeusen have reached the final in that time, so, yes Bundesliga IS comparatively weak.

Seems when your Havertz reaches a decent level league, he is nowhere near as prolific.

 

So, my matrix is fine, and, taking a leaf out of your sadly very boring book, I used google.  How about that.  Have they taught you the meaning of the word "petard" at school yet?

Havertz is a dynamic talent. And yes he is coming from a lower league where he dominated and showed how dynamic he is. Patience will be needed or we will lose another special talent like we did with De Bruyne. 

Remember that when De Bruyne was at Chelsea he was 21. He had to go to 2 other teams and then back to the PL before he became what he is today. Havertz has that potential so we just have to be patient and he has to play. 

Yesterday he wasn't special but he had a solid performance. Moved the ball well and actually created our best chance of the game which Chilwell put over the bar.

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by Saaladin

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Can't we say similar with the PL when we truly think about it? There's usually two outstanding teams with the rest reduced to being decent cup sides at best. The last four PL champions have picked up 99, 98, 100 and 93 points, when Barca/Madrid were doing that in La Liga that was supposedly the final proof needed it was a uncompetitive farmers league. 

The "competitive" nature of league's usually depends on how good the top teams are, La Liga is quite competitive right now because Real and Barca are average, in the 00's Bayern and Dortmund were underwhelming which allowed Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen and Stuttgart to pick up a title each. Now Bayern and Dortmund have got their act together no one's getting a look in.

I'm not arguing, mate.  I think we English drastically over-rate the strength of the Premier League.  My point was addressing the teenager who googles away to prove that Havertz is the reincarnation of Maradona, Eusebio and Bobby Charlton all rolled into one because he managed to score a few goals in what is effectively a 2-3 horse race.  Same as claiming PSG to be the club equivalent of the 1970's Brazil team because they often win a league in which their main challengers are currently Lille and Lyon.  A bit like Man City dominating when the next 2 best teams are Palace and Bournemouth.

 

However this season there are a few more than 2 PL teams challenging, and a lot of the lower teams have worked out how to play against the top 8 or 10.

6 minutes ago, Saaladin said:

Havertz is a dynamic talent. And yes he is coming from a lower league where he dominated and showed how dynamic he is. Patience will be needed or we will lose another special talent like we did with De Bruyne. 

Remember that when De Bruyne was at Chelsea he was 21. He had to go to 2 other teams and then back to the PL before he became what he is today. Havertz has that potential so we just have to be patient and he has to play. 

Yesterday he wasn't special but he had a solid performance. Moved the ball well and actually created our best chance of the game which Chilwell put over the bar.

There are one or two of you who claim he is "a dynamic talent" or a "generational talent".  Tell me exactly what he has done in a Chelsea shirt to justify that statement.

Havertz may well have that potential, but, As Frank Lampard found out, we cannot afford to have patience and play him at all costs.  He has directly cost us goals, and being in the side with performances like that is worse than playing with 10 men.  I don't know what match you watched last night, nor what your standards are measured against, but if you think that was "a solid performance" then you have much lower values than me.

 

Oh, and my views on DeBruyne are well known, but if he had had the patience and work ethic to fight for a place, he could now be doing for us what he mostly does for City.

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by yorkleyblue

28 minutes ago, Saaladin said:

 

Last night was an improvement and it was more than ok. 

The result obviously didn't work out but Wolves had no interest in winning that game. 

They defended their 18 yard box plain and simple.

Chelsea were beyond dominant on the ball, pressed with structure and cohesion, were sharper and faster and had a clear vision of what they were trying to do. 

If you compare this performance to the first game in December at Molineux it's night and day. Wolves were in that match from minute 1. 

Wolves // Chelsea December 15:

Passes: 410 // 489

Tackles won: 11 // 3 

Shots: 12 // 14

Shots on target: 4 // 3

 

Chelsea // Wolves January 28

Passes:  887 // 238

Tackles won: 12 // 4

Shots: 12 // 4

Shots on target: 6 // 0

 

The difference, Chelsea controlled the match from start to finish and did it with a structure and intensity we haven't seen this season. Unfortunately, Wolves decided they wanted no part in trying to get a win and there's only so much you can do trying to score against a team using all 10 players to defend their third. 

The other stat that isn't there is the one Tuchel referred to which is how many times they regained possession in the Wolves third which was about 16. All this shows that Tuchel gave them clear instruction and they followed it almost perfectly.

I'm not saying Tuchel is here to stay for 10 years and will win us titles but there is stark differences in the performance yesterday compared to the rest of the season

 

If you honestly think last nights performance was more than ok, then you must have very low standards. That was one of the dullest games I have watched for a long time. We could still be playing now and not have troubled their keeper.

And you can't compare a home game and an away game. The onus is always on the home team to try and get a result so Wolves were always going to be more negative coming to The Bridge. And when all said and done, for all their negativity and all our passing and possession, Wolves came closest to scoring.

I'm not blaming Tuchel for any of that but please let's not make out last night was some great new begining.

 

 

21 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

There are one or two of you who claim he is "a dynamic talent" or a "generational talent".  Tell me exactly what he has done in a Chelsea shirt to justify that statement.

Havertz may well have that potential, but, As Frank Lampard found out, we cannot afford to have patience and play him at all costs.  He has directly cost us goals, and being in the side with performances like that is worse than playing with 10 men.  I don't know what match you watched last night, nor what your standards are measured against, but if you think that was "a solid performance" then you have much lower values than me.

 

Oh, and my views on DeBruyne are well known, but if he had had the patience and work ethic to fight for a place, he could now be doing for us what he mostly does for City.

Glad to see you are finally admitting you were wrong about KDB YB!!

17 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Glad to see you are finally admitting you were wrong about KDB YB!!

Where did I say that?

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Yes - as english isn't your first language you appear to have out an extra "a" in your sentence.

"Bundesliga so weak that they have a few teams reaching late stages of the CL"

There are 3 teams at best, so no-one with any knowledge of football can claim it to be a strong, competitive league.  Bayern currently would do well anywhere, possibly RB Leiptzig as they are at the moment.  Only Bayern have won the CL in the last 20 years and only Dortmund and Leverkeusen have reached the final in that time, so, yes Bundesliga IS comparatively weak.

Seems when your Havertz reaches a decent level league, he is nowhere near as prolific.

 

So, my matrix is fine, and, taking a leaf out of your sadly very boring book, I used google.  How about that.  Have they taught you the meaning of the word "petard" at school yet?

There are 3 teams at best in the PL (Liverpool, Man City +1 you choose) as well, if you want to stretch that argument it's also the same in La Liga (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico).

But then again Sevilla casually kicked out Wolves and Man United last season in Europa League. How did the PL team do against the teams from the Bundesliga last season?

Bayern 2 wins vs Spurs, 3:1, 7:2
Bayern 2 wins vs Us, 3:0, 4:1

Leipzig 2 wins vs Spurs, 1:0, 3:0

In the Europa League:

Frankfurt 1 win 1 loss vs Arsenal 2:1, 0:3

So competitive I see, PL teams won 1 game out of 8, or if we squeeze in Glasgow Rangers that's 1 out of 10 after Frankfurt eliminated them in the Europa League knockout stages.

Who cares about the fact that German football gave Havertz the silver medal meaning that he was the second best U17 player of the country and then golden medal for the U19 generation meaning that he was the best young player in Germany just some year ago...
It's a weak league and no talent can possibly come out of there, what was Lampard thinking really, flying all the way there just so that we sign this guy for 70-80m?

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, Saaladin said:

Havertz is a dynamic talent. And yes he is coming from a lower league where he dominated and showed how dynamic he is. Patience will be needed or we will lose another special talent like we did with De Bruyne. 

Remember that when De Bruyne was at Chelsea he was 21. He had to go to 2 other teams and then back to the PL before he became what he is today. Havertz has that potential so we just have to be patient and he has to play. 

Yesterday he wasn't special but he had a solid performance. Moved the ball well and actually created our best chance of the game which Chilwell put over the bar.

Sorry to be picky, but there is a huge difference between the purchase of KDB and Havertz and it’s about £65+ million.

Paying £7 million for a 21 year old with potential stacks up, paying £75 million would suggest that its more the complete package, it’s not his fault that we paid so much for him, but it does influence our expectation I believe .

4 hours ago, Valerie said:

We ruined him, like every number 9. Keep up!

Some of these kids have got a lot to learn about the history of Chelsea's No.9's.