3 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I just don't understand Tuchel's vision for the team at the moment. It seems his blueprint has been to play 3atb since he came and we've seen we can compete with any team in the world when we're on it.

Especially the best teams in the world when we play 3atb. Yet his tactically inflexibility has made him predictable for the teams below us. It's easy to know how we'll line up because he very rarely mixes it up for the lower table games.

Moving back to the blueprint, clearly he sees Mount and Havertz as key players to the way he wants to play and they are staples as they combined to win the champions league. He identified Werner was the weak point of the trident so he began playing an actual target man in between these two number 10s. That didn't work out so he moved Havertz alongside Lukaku to play as a 2 with Mount just behind. Again that too didn't work.

He then brought a dynamic forward like Sterling to play through the middle of Kai and Mount we assumed. Yet despite what the official line up says he's basically playing Sterling and Kai as a 2 with Mount behind. Which to me doesn't really make sense, essentially he's not playing a single one of the three attackers in their most optimal position. 

I will back Tuchel for as long as I can but I can see why questions are being asked. Yes when we play a 4atb we look vulnerable, but there has to be another solution than playing 4-5 (RLC, Sterling, Havertz, Gallagher) outfield players out of their primary position. Despite how good RLC looked vs Spurs that was not the right call for a pressing Leeds side.  

As it stands I don't think Tuchel's positioning of Kai has helped him much and I would like to see him go back to what has worked in the past just one striker and two supporting players not the other way around despite what the formation says on paper.

You say he's tactically inflexible, then go on to show examples of him being flexible, which is it ?

11 minutes ago, coco said:

You say he's tactically inflexible, then go on to show examples of him being flexible, which is it ?

Come on dude it's literally part of the same sentence against teams lower in the table.

Just now, LongtimerLurker said:

Come on dude it's literally part of the same sentence against teams lower in the table.

There's no debating he's a tactically astute manager and still the best man for the job but he's not above critique. From my perspective his approach to teams lower than us vs teams higher than us continues to be his greatest weakness.

5 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

There's no debating he's a tactically astute manager and still the best man for the job but he's not above critique. From my perspective his approach to teams lower than us vs teams higher than us continues to be his greatest weakness.

You may have a point, but surely you have more patients than 3 games ?

He's lost our best defender, he's lost our best two midfielders to injuries, he's dealing with a new owner, a divorce, a keeper who thinks he's Messi, and very dodgy refs on top of it all.

The last thing he needs is heat from the fans. The only people who want him out are the few fans who are still pining for Frank, they will never credit Tuchel and take every opportunity to critic and blame him for one defeat. 

Him and Todd are out of their minds with this spending on Cucurella and Gordon, assuming the latter arrives. 

Talk about making a rod for your own back. The director of football will have a real job on his hands making good deals when the rest of the world looks at our spending like our owner is Musk or Bezos.

3 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Him and Todd are out of their minds with this spending on Cucurella and Gordon, assuming the latter arrives. 

Talk about making a rod for your own back. The director of football will have a real job on his hands making good deals when the rest of the world looks at our spending like our owner is Musk or Bezos.

I agree with what you're saying that we are overpaying. Gordon in particular who I don't think should be any more than £25m. Cucurella yes we have paid alot but he and Chilwell are 2 of the best left backs in europe so it's handy to have good depth there.

This transfer fee problem isn't unique to just us though. Just this summer alone:

- Liverpool have spent £85m on Nunez, who has had one good season in Portugal
-United have spent £55m on Martinez who the jury is still out on.
- United also look set to sign Antony for around £80m, a player who is not proven in the Premier League 
- City signed Haaland for £50-£60m because of a release clause. If hypothetically that release clause wasn't there you could easily say he would have cost over £100m.
-United again, £30m for Casemiro which isn't that bad at face value but if you then factor in they are going to pay him £400k a week for 3 years then that seems like a ridiculous outlay.
-Not Premier League but Barcelona have paid £50m for 34yr old Lewandowski

It's fair enough to worry about our spending and the long term effects of that but it's also worth acknowledging that we are not the only club who has overspent to land targets this summer. Transfer fee's have been spiralling for a few years now - probably since Pogba returned to United, and then the Neymar/Mbappe transfers to PSG. It seems as long as these 'big clubs' have the money to spend, they will do so without much hesitation.

In my own opinion transfer fees are unsustainably high at the moment particularly in the Premier League and more needs to be done to control what clubs can spend, but that is probably a discussion for another thread. 

30 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Him and Todd are out of their minds with this spending on Cucurella and Gordon, assuming the latter arrives. 

Talk about making a rod for your own back. The director of football will have a real job on his hands making good deals when the rest of the world looks at our spending like our owner is Musk or Bezos.

You would be more worried if he didn't spend much money, it was obvious he was going to get overcharged for players, he's the new poker player at the table, i didn't hear people moaning like this back in 2003 when Roman was out of control overspending on players from Fulham. 

5 wins out of 14 since Brentford is cause for concern no getting away from it.

3 hours ago, coco said:

You would be more worried if he didn't spend much money, it was obvious he was going to get overcharged for players, he's the new poker player at the table, i didn't hear people moaning like this back in 2003 when Roman was out of control overspending on players from Fulham. 

No FFP, and Roman is one man, the only owner and a billionaire worth 8bill so too right I was not worried about him spending his money on us. 

If Roman was still in charge and there was no FFP and he wanted to spend like this I would complain he was being ripped off but that would be it.

Todd and Co answer to Clearlake and their investors, a lot of people expecting to make money.

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by axman2526

13 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

No FFP, and Roman is one man, the only owner and a billionaire worth 8bill so too right I was not worried about him spending his money on us. 

If Roman was still in charge and there was no FFP and he wanted to spend like this I would complain he was being ripped off but that would be it.

Todd and Co answer to Clearlake and their investors, a lot of people expecting to make money.

Have you forgotten ? The investment is long term, as you know, we've talked about it, the investors wont get anything within ten years, probably longer, their profit comes from raising the value of the club over the long term.

"Chelsea and all of the top Premier League clubs will probably be worth in excess of $10 billion (£7.9 billion) in five years"     link.

The only way we won't be worth more as a club in five years is if we don't keep up with the top teams, the only way to do that is with a heavy investment.

8 minutes ago, coco said:

Have you forgotten ? The investment is long term, as you know, we've talked about it, the investors wont get anything within ten years, probably longer, their profit comes from raising the value of the club over the long term.

"Chelsea and all of the top Premier League clubs will probably be worth in excess of $10 billion (£7.9 billion) in five years"     link.

The only way we won't be worth more as a club in five years is if we don't keep up with the top teams, the only way to do that is with a heavy investment.

Fair points Coco, but there must be better ways of investing 120mill quid than on Cucruella and Gordon? If that is the price for rotation players, how much will we have to pay for a star player?

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Fair points Coco, but there must be better ways of investing 120mill quid than on Cucruella and Gordon? If that is the price for rotation players, how much will we have to pay for a star player?

From memory most of the big name 'star' players we signed have been flop after flop, whereas all the legends we have had more or less were unheard of before they came to us, Cech, Gallas, Terry, Lampard, Essien, Drogba, and more, none of them were big name stars before they came to us, the only legend i can think of who was a big name before we bought him was Ash Cole. 

1 minute ago, coco said:

From memory most of the big name 'star' players we signed have been flop after flop, whereas all the legends we have had more or less were unheard of before they came to us, Cech, Gallas, Terry, Lampard, Essien, Drogba, and more, none of them were big name stars before they came to us, the only legend i can think of who was a big name before we bought him was Ash Cole. 

Well that is a point. Maybe we will look back on the Gordon thread and all get to eat humble pie.

Just now, axman2526 said:

Well that is a point. Maybe we will look back on the Gordon thread and all get to eat humble pie.

You never know, this Italian kid we just bought could be the next Lampard.

3 minutes ago, coco said:

You never know, this Italian kid we just bought could be the next Lampard.

I would be very happy to see Casadei start along with 2 from Ampadu, Gallagher and Carney in a midfield 3 on Saturday. 

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Him and Todd are out of their minds with this spending on Cucurella and Gordon, assuming the latter arrives. 

Talk about making a rod for your own back. The director of football will have a real job on his hands making good deals when the rest of the world looks at our spending like our owner is Musk or Bezos.

Overpaying for player is fine. 

I am not sure why we need Gordon let alone paying 60m for himm

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Overpaying for player is fine. 

I am not sure why we need Gordon let alone paying 60m for himm

Leicester have apparently just turned down our 4th offer of £70m for Fofana, utter f**king madness.

Let him rot.

1 hour ago, Kev56 said:

Leicester have apparently just turned down our 4th offer of £70m for Fofana, utter f**king madness.

Our reresident @foxedup would disagree that our offer is too low so not madness at all.

1 hour ago, Kev56 said:

Leicester have apparently just turned down our 4th offer of £70m for Fofana, utter f**king madness.

I rate him better than De Ligt so not as mad as it looks on paper. Let's not forget that Van Dijk looked great but not 75m great. Many questioned that fee as well. Unfortunately  we don't have the squad base to make astute, frugal signings. We need to get our first XV to a level immediately if we want to compete. Then once we have that base, we can do what City and Liverpool are doing - and confidently walk away if a valuation is ridiculous. 

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by venom2011

3 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

I rate him better than De Ligt so not as mad as it looks on paper. Let's not forget that Van Dijk looked great but not 75m great. Many questioned that fee as well. Unfortunately  we don't have the squad base to make astute, frugal signings. We need to get our first XV to a level immediately if we want to compete. Then once we have that base, we can do what City and Liverpool are doing - and confidently walk away if a valuation is ridiculous. 

Good point. Though Pool brought in VVD and Allison when they were the last two pieces of their jigsaw. Klopp already had an industrious midfield and potent attack. We have neither of those things sadly, nor a competent goalkeeper.

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Good point. Though Pool brought in VVD and Allison when they were the last two pieces of their jigsaw. Klopp already had an industrious midfield and potent attack. We have neither of those things sadly, nor a competent goalkeeper.

Paying 70m/60m for starter or expected to be starter in the future is not a problem. Paying 60 m for I am not sure where he is going to play is just weird. 

12 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Well that is a point. Maybe we will look back on the Gordon thread and all get to eat humble pie.

This is very similar to when we signed Chilwell, loads of people getting upset that he wasnt good enough, far too expensive etc. Turned out well, also turns out we didnt pay anywhere near as much as the "insiders" were reporting. 

Final week of the transfer window will be extremely interesting this time. And not to mention pivotal.

Need at the very least one CB, one striker and a winger. We are clearly after Fofana, Aubameyang and Gordon so lets hope we can land our targets. We need them all to have any hope of competing this season.

Klopp apparently didn't want Salah, it was their board that had targeted him. What a decision that was. Just shows that sometimes the manager doesn't always know what he's talking about in regards to players. I'm sure this happened with us getting Hazard. The board wanted him.

I actually quite admire Arsenal's business so far this window. Brought in G.Jesus. now they are looking at Neto from Wolves and Tielemans of Leicester. Solid signings that will strengthen them some more. 

Edited August 24, 20223 yr by enigma