6 minutes ago, dkw said:

We are now no better off than when Tuchel came, he has taken us backwards if anything as the football we now play is as bad and ineffective as when Sarri was here, and all because he wants to protect Jorginho, meaning he fits players in wherever he can, out of position and taking away from their best attributes. Playing Reece James at CB is ridiculous, utterly negates one of the best attacking full backs in football, all so he can play his tedious 3 at the back to protect an ineffectual and easily bypassed midfield.

And does anyone honestly think it will change, we will start with the same formation, pretty much the same players (though I've a feeling Gallagher will be the one to take the blame and be dropped) doing the same things with the same outcome.

Sarri had us at least beating the rubbish sides. We looked awful but we got results. 

Tuchel just can't get a tune out of our attackers. 

He can reasonably expect to be given until the world cup, but that might be the time we look to change things if things don't improve.

8 minutes ago, enigma said:

Gotta laugh when people say we need to build a system and keep faith with a manager, but then a season later are doubting him and wanting him gone. Who the hell would we even bring in to do better? We've been through Europes best coaches and none of them have been good enough for this club or our fans, so where do we turn to? We can't keep doing this. 

The problem is enigma,we would all be 100% behind Thomas if we started noticing improvements in certain areas, but we aren't, these players are not all sh*t they are top players,but we seem clueless at times and apart from the odd game we all know other teams will have our measure.

Criticizing TT doesnt mean everyone wants him out but at the same time as a fan base we can demand better from our manager. Especially given how he has used systems we feel better suited to as a team..  Everyone can see that Mount and Havertz would be better of in a 10.. Jorgi in a midfield 2 doesnt work against direct teams as he needs cover possibly as a part of a 3.  

By the time we get our WBs involved the opposition is already set and we need to play more direct and we have wingers who could have done it and strikers here.. I am worried in a few months more of our team will want out..

I'm not calling for his head.  You don't get headhunted from BVB to PSG to Chelsea if you've not got something special. 

He just needs to adapt.  I've said it third time now.  First time I did, someone said Pep and Klopp never adapted. Truth is they did, they had money to support their vision but they had to also tweak their styles slightly to contend with the physicality and the won't have us sit by and watch you run rings found us mentality of the bottom teams. 

Key to that is stamping your superiority quickly in games by scoring early goals to show them who's boss.  The longer games go on without the big team scoring the stronger and better the other team gets.  

Not all Tuchel's fault in a way because under a minute with first attack if Sterling scores that they don't come at us the way they did.  Minutes later if  RLC makes a better choice and strikes the ball first time rather than trying to cut inside again, maybe that goes in the back of the net straightaway or the keeper fumbles and it goes to the feet of one of three Chelsea players already arriving in the box.  2 up in 10 mins.  How do Leeds find the mentality to match that? 

The players also need to have the mental strength and make the right choices to give us a chance. 

I remember listening to Barry Glendenning taking the mick out of Arteta for his talks in All or nothing (I had no desire to watch it but decided to as wanted to see why he got so much strong criticism for it)  and when I saw it, though on the one hand you may laugh at it, there's a reason why he gave those talks.  You need to get the players head in the right place, sharpen them mentally, it's not just about skills or tactics.  If they didn't have it to a degree, they wouldn't be a professional footballer.  Yes even the crap ones went through a gruelling selection process to be able to play at the top level.  Who they play for early in their career determines how far they go in the game. 

There's a level of lazer focus required, shooting at the right time, making the right pass, the right run.  The only difference between an ordinary and extraordinary player is the level of application. That comes from the mentality. Not skill. 

Tuchel has to solve our attacking problems. He can't expect the full-backs and defenders to score the goals yet another season.

Sure his squad has holes, that still doesn't mean that he should always look towards a set piece or for a full-back to solve a game.

Klopp at the start had a weak defense and a weak keeper but the first thing he did was to establish an attack for goals, Tuchel has done the opposite he consolidated our defense but so far he has failed to manage our attack. He must solve that problem.

26 minutes ago, enigma said:

Gotta laugh when people say we need to build a system and keep faith with a manager, but then a season later are doubting him and wanting him gone. Who the hell would we even bring in to do better? We've been through Europes best coaches and none of them have been good enough for this club or our fans, so where do we turn to? We can't keep doing this. 

This is the thing who else do they think can we get that’s better. Yesterday was results that would have happened at some point this season maybe it’s a blessing it’s happened now before the window closes.

Let him revamp the team and see where we are. It’s 3 games in and there will be a lot of games like this for all the big teams this season.

22 minutes ago, El regreso said:

This is the thing who else do they think can we get that’s better. Yesterday was results that would have happened at some point this season maybe it’s a blessing it’s happened now before the window closes.

Let him revamp the team and see where we are. It’s 3 games in and there will be a lot of games like this for all the big teams this season.

Its not 3 games in though is it, its 6 months of no progress, stagnation and regression. 

Certainly needs to stop this silly experiment with short right-sided centre backs and make-shift wing backs. Reece is easily beaten at the near post in the air for their second goal.

James needs to play at RWB.

Not sure what Chalobah has done wrong to be left out of the team. I'd be starting him at RCB. Best option we have currently, plus adds a goal threat for set pieces at the other end.

Anyone who has watched him, or has an eye for data analysis could see that Gallagher does not have the skill set for the midfield pivot role. The only role I see for him in our side is as one of the advanced two midfielders in a 4-3-3. which only works with a new signing to play at defensive midfield. Even his first half of season form at Crystal Palace wouldn't get him starting ahead of Mount, and his second half of season Palace form gets him nowhere near our team.

Wouldn't surprise if Tuchel is struggling with a good deal of the dressing room, given how may of the current squad are either surplus to requirements, out of favour, or looking to leave.

31 in the squad currently, as per club web site :

I'd categorise them as follows : (you could make a case for some in different categories, e..g CHO could be alongside Chalobah in the not fancied category, or in the 'not the same since serious injury' category)

 

Its's going to take a few transfer windows to sort it all out  ... 

 

Edited August 22, 20223 yr by Sexyfootball

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Certainly needs to stop this silly experiment with short right-sided centre backs and make-shift wing backs. Reece is easily beaten at the near post in the air for their second goal.

James needs to play at RWB.

Not sure what Chalobah has done wrong to be left out of the team. I'd be starting him at RCB. Best option we have currently, plus adds a goal threat for set pieces at the other end.

Anyone who has watched him, or has an eye for data analysis could see that Gallagher does not have the skill set for the midfield pivot role. The only role I see for him in our side is as one of the advanced two midfielders in a 4-3-3. which only works with a new signing to play at defensive midfield. Even his first half of season form at Crystal Palace wouldn't get him starting ahead of Mount, and his second half of season Palace form gets him nowhere near our team.

Wouldn't surprise if Tuchel is struggling with a good deal of the dressing room, given how may of the current squad are either surplus to requirements, out of favour, or looking to leave.

31 in the squad currently, as per club web site :

I'd categorise them as follows : (you could make a case for some in different categories, e..g CHO could be alongside Chalobah in the not fancied category, or in the 'not the same serious injury' category)

 

Its's going to take a few transfer windows to sort it all out  ... 

 

IMO harsh to put Chilwell where he is, he has only played about 80 mins of football since coming back from his injury (not including any friendlies)

1 minute ago, drjonesy1994 said:

IMO harsh to put Chilwell where he is, he has only played about 80 mins of football since coming back from his injury (not including any friendlies)

Yes possibly so. As a snapshot of where we are today though, it's probably about right. With a couple of games, assuming he demonstrates previous level, then he's probably moving down into the bottom row, as would Koulibaly when back from suspension, or the guys returning from injury at some point, etc etc.

The overall point is that half the squad could very likely have morale/motivational issues that TT is trying to overcome behind the scenes (some of his own creation for sure). Even the likes of Mount and James could be a bit off colour based on earning much less than so many of the non-performers.

31 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its not 3 games in though is it, its 6 months of no progress, stagnation and regression. 

Okay who comes in and change anything? I am just as frustrated with the slow dull football at times and the 3-4-3 or 5-2-3 or whatever it is we play but I don’t see who fixes this.
Remember last season we were  flying until both wingbacks got injured and I think that’s where he wants to get back to, I hope he changes the framework eventually but it will take time and I don’t see him getting sacked anytime soon and why should he.

Square Pegs In Round Holes, TT Has This 1 System That He Plays And No Matter How Bad It's Going He Will Just Shoehorn Players Into It Regardless Of If They Fit That Position Or Even Have The Capability Of Playing In That Position

It Reminds Me Similar To Lampard, He Had His System And Stuck By It Regardless And It Got Him The Sack, I Wanted Lampard At The Time To Just Change His System Slightly To Better Suit Our Players But Didn't, I Hope TT Doesn't Keep Doing The Same sh*t And Just Nullifying Our Attack To Fixate On This Wingback System Which Can Work, But Don't Destroy The Attack Just For Wingbacks 

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Tuchel just can't get a tune out of our attackers. 

We do not have attackers. We have wingers and midfielders masquerading as attackers, we no longer have the REAL thing like Drogba or costa.

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

Everyone can see that Mount and Havertz would be better of in a 10.. Jorgi in a midfield 2 doesnt work against direct teams as he needs cover possibly as a part of a 3.  

Spot on !!!! If we can all see it, why cant TT ??

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Its not 3 games in though is it, its 6 months of no progress, stagnation and regression. 

He also put the bar as high as he possible could have put it to begin with.

It wouldn't hurt to take a step back and acknowledge where we were before he came in. We were quite obviously miles off being contenders in the league and Bayern had recently made us look like silly little boys in the Champions League. The fact that Tuchel performed a managerial miracle and won the Champions League on merit with our squad shouldn't turn into a stick to beat him with.

There is also a lot of mitigating factors that have led to us struggling. Not sure that's something you want to acknowledge either but I think most would agree with that. It's been an extremely tumultuous time for the club and it should be no surprise we have suffered.

 

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Certainly needs to stop this silly experiment with short right-sided centre backs and make-shift wing backs. Reece is easily beaten at the near post in the air for their second goal.

James needs to play at RWB.

Not sure what Chalobah has done wrong to be left out of the team. I'd be starting him at RCB. Best option we have currently, plus adds a goal threat for set pieces at the other end.

Anyone who has watched him, or has an eye for data analysis could see that Gallagher does not have the skill set for the midfield pivot role. The only role I see for him in our side is as one of the advanced two midfielders in a 4-3-3. which only works with a new signing to play at defensive midfield. Even his first half of season form at Crystal Palace wouldn't get him starting ahead of Mount, and his second half of season Palace form gets him nowhere near our team.

Wouldn't surprise if Tuchel is struggling with a good deal of the dressing room, given how may of the current squad are either surplus to requirements, out of favour, or looking to leave.

31 in the squad currently, as per club web site :

I'd categorise them as follows : (you could make a case for some in different categories, e..g CHO could be alongside Chalobah in the not fancied category, or in the 'not the same since serious injury' category)

 

Its's going to take a few transfer windows to sort it all out  ... 

 

An EXCELLENT appraisal of exactly where the problems lay, but the question is, Is TT the man to fix them ??????  If Todd reads this, at least he will understand that he needs to find at least another £200 million.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Certainly needs to stop this silly experiment with short right-sided centre backs and make-shift wing backs. Reece is easily beaten at the near post in the air for their second goal.

James needs to play at RWB.

Not sure what Chalobah has done wrong to be left out of the team. I'd be starting him at RCB. Best option we have currently, plus adds a goal threat for set pieces at the other end.

Anyone who has watched him, or has an eye for data analysis could see that Gallagher does not have the skill set for the midfield pivot role. The only role I see for him in our side is as one of the advanced two midfielders in a 4-3-3. which only works with a new signing to play at defensive midfield. Even his first half of season form at Crystal Palace wouldn't get him starting ahead of Mount, and his second half of season Palace form gets him nowhere near our team.

Wouldn't surprise if Tuchel is struggling with a good deal of the dressing room, given how may of the current squad are either surplus to requirements, out of favour, or looking to leave.

31 in the squad currently, as per club web site :

I'd categorise them as follows : (you could make a case for some in different categories, e..g CHO could be alongside Chalobah in the not fancied category, or in the 'not the same since serious injury' category)

 

Its's going to take a few transfer windows to sort it all out  ... 

 

Please swap Jorginho into either the out of form or unproven category, thanks.

1 minute ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Please swap Jorginho into either the out of form or unproven category, thanks.

I've made my post, thanks. No need for me to edit it just to satisfy your craving for a cheap shot at Jorginho. 

6 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I've made my post, thanks. No need for me to edit it just to satisfy your craving for a cheap shot at Jorginho. 

Wouldn't be a cheap shot, just want it to be as accurate as possible.

I read somehwere that they(Leeds) outran us on the night by 10 km(!) Now I don't know how true that is but it certainly looked that way.

My point is, some of the problems, like players bought by previous regimes isn't TT's fault. But motivating the team to perform to the best of their ability certainly is and yesterday he failed in that respect miserably . I genuinely hope that his public explanation is just for show and behind closed doors he's giving absolute hell to the players. Still, this is not the first time his excuses after poor performance/loss sound odd, as if the guy is watching a different game to the rest of us.

I have to say, for the first time I'm starting to wonder if he's the right man to build a top side and get us back to contention.

16 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Wouldn't be a cheap shot, just want it to be as accurate as possible.

I don't think Jorginho is either out of form or unproven.  No-one who has made 191 appearances for Chelsea can sensibly be called "unproven", and his form season-to-date is exactly what most people would expect, so therefore he is not "out of form" either. Would I replace him with someone like De Jong or another specialist actual DM who can provide a proper defensive screen , some physical presence, some dribbling ability, and forward passing through the lines capability ? Yes absolutely. 

20 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I don't think Jorginho is either out of form or unproven.  No-one who has made 191 appearances for Chelsea can sensibly be called "unproven", and his form season-to-date is exactly what most people would expect, so therefore he is not "out of form" either. Would I replace him with someone like De Jong or another specialist actual DM who can provide a proper defensive screen , some physical presence, some dribbling ability, and forward passing through the lines capability ? Yes absolutely. 

Suppose his current level is his form, so not out of form per se. Just crap. 

If we keep going through the same debate every couple seasons about replacing a coach, It can't be the  coach can it. City haven't had that issue with Pep, neither have Liverpool. We don't give anyone time. 

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Certainly needs to stop this silly experiment with short right-sided centre backs and make-shift wing backs. Reece is easily beaten at the near post in the air for their second goal.

James needs to play at RWB.

Not sure what Chalobah has done wrong to be left out of the team. I'd be starting him at RCB. Best option we have currently, plus adds a goal threat for set pieces at the other end.

Anyone who has watched him, or has an eye for data analysis could see that Gallagher does not have the skill set for the midfield pivot role. The only role I see for him in our side is as one of the advanced two midfielders in a 4-3-3. which only works with a new signing to play at defensive midfield. Even his first half of season form at Crystal Palace wouldn't get him starting ahead of Mount, and his second half of season Palace form gets him nowhere near our team.

Wouldn't surprise if Tuchel is struggling with a good deal of the dressing room, given how may of the current squad are either surplus to requirements, out of favour, or looking to leave.

31 in the squad currently, as per club web site :

I'd categorise them as follows : (you could make a case for some in different categories, e..g CHO could be alongside Chalobah in the not fancied category, or in the 'not the same since serious injury' category)

 

Its's going to take a few transfer windows to sort it all out  ... 

 

Good appraisal of the squad. I think there could be quite a few more additions to the 'not fancied by TT'. Maybe there should also be a category 'Players not liking to play in the positions that TT is setting them in'? Far too many are being asked to play in positions that don't show their best talents. 

1 minute ago, enigma said:

If we keep going through the same debate every couple seasons about replacing a coach, It can't be the  coach can it. City haven't had that issue with Pep, neither have Liverpool. We don't give anyone time. 

I am still awaiting the people calling for his head to name a suitable replacement that’s available. Kloop went through this for his first couple of seasons but eventually got it right. We have so many mishaps in players that it will take two full summers to clear it all out. 
Having said that Tuchel must see something in training that lets him stick to the 3 at the back. 
 

And please no one mention Poch who is a serial bottler!!!!