31 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

On current form we are the SIXTH BEST team in London .... ahead of only West Ham who are bottom. Something has to change, and quickly !

I don't know whether it is the system or the players, but I'd be amazed if Tuchel had been telling them *not* to shoot, and on the odd occasion when someone forgets not to shoot, to shoot wide and high, or at the keeper, or to run offside all the time, or to stand static in the final third, or to hit crap crosses at no-one in particular. It's f**king basic stuff that should have been automatic in them since the age of 8 ffs ... if they are actually decent players it shouldn't matter if we had the worst manager in the world, they should still be doing so much better than they are ... in particular I don't understand how you can be so up for it last week against Spurs, and then have ONE player drop out through injury, and then his replacement and the other 10 perform like that. Utterly f**king pitiful ... 

 

People are looking for somebody to blame, but we saw this long before Tuchel even arrived. Under Lampard, Sarri and even in Conte's 2nd season, this team was missing piss easy chances. Has everybody forgotten how many 1v1's Morata missed? How about Willian having all of the skill a player can dream of and then sh*tting himself when he got close to the penalty area? People bring up Abraham a lot, but they are forgetting why Lampard dropped him TWICE when he was manager and recalled Giroud. It was because he dried up in front of goal and just looked useless. I think it was against Tottenham where I was begging for him to be subbed off after missing a few sitters. The only difference now compared to when Conte and Sarri were around is that we no longer have Hazard bailing us out so it's far more noticeable.

It's also not helping briging players into the team that doesn't suit how we want to play. Werner was never really a fit for Chelsea. Put Werner in a counter attacking team or against a high line and he will probably score a ton of goals. Play him in a team with slow build up play against packed defences and he is sh*t.

Edited August 21, 20223 yr by Scott Harris

If you add in the last 10 games or so of last season our form has been mid-table and that seems to be our destiny at the moment. If that is what we need to finally get the system working with the right players, then so be it. But I feel we will have to see some progress over the course of this season. 

23 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

City and Liverpool also have much more talented attacking players than we do.

Guardiola has literally never coached an attacking player as bad as Pulisic or Ziyech in his entire career.

The managers job is to get the most out of the talent he has, I'd argue Tuchel has done that with our results but the talent actually has to be there to challenge for the title and I don't think it is.

The talent is there. Tuchel just isn't getting the best out of them. Look how fluid Leeds looked in attack without their main man. Harrison looked brilliant. Arnason looked brilliant. There is no reason we should not be running rings around a defence that is known for conceding goals. It is damn worrying.

It’s the mentality of the team that’s the problem. They weren’t up for it today. They didn’t work hard enough. They didn’t match Leeds’ intensity. They gave up trying after the 2-0. 

Tbh I'm not ready to throw Tuchel under the bus just yet. I still hope he signs a contract extension and is allowed time to build HIS team. He only has 3 starting players that have been signed under his watch and bar a horror show today they've all looked good in the small sample time.

Havertz needs to be dropped, maybe Mount too. Thing is I truly believe Mount and Sterling with another world class forward will be a good attack. Yet they will need support from a creative mid/deeplying mid with a an eye for a pass/through ball.

Alongside a structural change because the team are not a league winning team they will continue to only turn up for 1 off games until the squad revamp is complete and we move further forward in the new era of Boehly/Tuchel's CFC.

Looking towards next game I would love to see a front 3 of Sterling, Pulisic and Ziyech.  Perhaps in a back 4 so Pulisic and Ziyech actually play in their position. If not then I want 343 not 3421 I want Pulisic and Ziyech to be wide and the wingbacks to push into midfield to create numerical superiority. 

With the red card to Koulibaly I would like to see us play Reece and Chilly wing back next game try Cucurella and Azpil in the left and right cb positions outside of Silva. 

In midfield we cannot play Gallagher in the pivot it's not his fault he's just not that guy. It's not a fair reflection on what he is as a player and what he brings to the table.

Mendy has to be dropped for 2-3 minimum, games to see if Kepa can challenge him. It's a shame Kepa hasn't got much game time recently because it let's Mendy get complacent he needs to feel like he's not automatically guaranteed to start every game.

Most importantly Tuchel for now escapes too much criticism from me, but I'm starting to grow weary. I won't be surprised if Werner starts tearing it up in Germany like Tammy in Italy. He really has struggled to show any attacking improvements in our players. 

If he truly runs a meritocracy he cannot start both Havertz and Mount next week it's unforgivable. Pulisic or Ziyech deserve a shot, he's not rotated his attack for the first 3 games and we have only scored 3 goals and not one of them have come from the 3 attackers he's refused to rotate. 

Very damning I like the trio on paper but it's not good enough for this level. He has to experiment with one of his other options I like TT, but he can be very stuck in his ways and I'm not so sure anymore that's a character trait that is as endearing as it used to be. 

 

40 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

last season it took us 13 games before we conceded 5 goals total

Excellent, we're ahead of schedule 

8 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

It’s the mentality of the team that’s the problem. They weren’t up for it today. They didn’t work hard enough. They didn’t match Leeds’ intensity. They gave up trying after the 2-0. 

Agreed but you have to ask why in that case? Unfortunately when the team is not up for it the buck tends to stop with the manager.

54 minutes ago, Mod said:

Not sure I've seen any saying he should be sacked, just that he might be the problem, and that I agree with!

Maybe we should've had a complete staffing change when Boehly took over.

If Tuchel is THE problem, then who was the problem before him? Lampard? Sarri? Conte? Mourinho? It's always the manager that is the problem with us, it's never the players, it's never the scouting, it's never the people making the decisions to bring these players in. The manager is always the one to be blamed at this club.

When Lampard was sacked, I was gutted and said this exact scenario would play out again, and here we are, it's happening all over again. Maybe the problem is Chelsea football club, the way we are run, the way we conduct ourselves. Maybe our identity needs a massive change because 20 years of chopping and changing the manager has made us into a bit of a circus. 

His record in the league is not very good, it has to be said. However, his job should not be under threat. He has enough credit in the tank and should be given the chance to fix the issues in the team. We still have a big issue with creativity and he has to do something about it. We look so toothless in too many games and our recruitment so far this summer doesn't seem like it's going to address that issue.Worrying signs

Don’t think anyone claimed Tuchel should be sacked. Merely pointing out the failure of improvement in a pretty important area. 

We just have no real drive to score up front. Top teams have players who are desperate to score all the time. When was the last time someone like Havertz got the ball in the box and did a quick turn and shot, or drove at his man and got a shot away? We just overplay, or try to pass our way through tiny gaps. I'm really f**king sick of it.

The old adage ... "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" ... 

I think TT and Boehly will be well aware that the squad is in desperate need of re-inforcements. Boehly isn't blind, and he is certainly not stupid, so there is no other conclusion he can make from the 9 or so games he's attended in person.

So which manager that’s available do the fans who want him sacked think should replace him?

In my humble opinion after the upheaved we have been through most clubs would have imploded and certainly wouldn’t have finished in the top 4. 
Against Spurs we showed what we can do if all the players turn up and apply what the manager wants. The execution was near perfect barring us killing the game and scoring more goals.

Tuchel need two full summer windows to get rid of the fluff and get players fitting the philosophy. We are not going to challenge this season its all about getting the foundation in place to kick on.

I too do get frustrated with our play but I can only assume the players are simply not capable of doing what he wants and misplacing 5 yard passes is just basics and can’t be blamed on the manger.

There is no one better to replace him and the constant revolving door of managers soon bites you in the rear.

 

55 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Tbh I'm not ready to throw Tuchel under the bus just yet. I still hope he signs a contract extension and is allowed time to build HIS team. He only has 3 starting players that have been signed under his watch and bar a horror show today they've all looked good in the small sample time.

Havertz needs to be dropped, maybe Mount too. Thing is I truly believe Mount and Sterling with another world class forward will be a good attack. Yet they will need support from a creative mid/deeplying mid with a an eye for a pass/through ball.

Alongside a structural change because the team are not a league winning team they will continue to only turn up for 1 off games until the squad revamp is complete and we move further forward in the new era of Boehly/Tuchel's CFC.

Looking towards next game I would love to see a front 3 of Sterling, Pulisic and Ziyech.  Perhaps in a back 4 so Pulisic and Ziyech actually play in their position. If not then I want 343 not 3421 I want Pulisic and Ziyech to be wide and the wingbacks to push into midfield to create numerical superiority. 

With the red card to Koulibaly I would like to see us play Reece and Chilly wing back next game try Cucurella and Azpil in the left and right cb positions outside of Silva. 

In midfield we cannot play Gallagher in the pivot it's not his fault he's just not that guy. It's not a fair reflection on what he is as a player and what he brings to the table.

Mendy has to be dropped for 2-3 minimum, games to see if Kepa can challenge him. It's a shame Kepa hasn't got much game time recently because it let's Mendy get complacent he needs to feel like he's not automatically guaranteed to start every game.

Most importantly Tuchel for now escapes too much criticism from me, but I'm starting to grow weary. I won't be surprised if Werner starts tearing it up in Germany like Tammy in Italy. He really has struggled to show any attacking improvements in our players. 

If he truly runs a meritocracy he cannot start both Havertz and Mount next week it's unforgivable. Pulisic or Ziyech deserve a shot, he's not rotated his attack for the first 3 games and we have only scored 3 goals and not one of them have come from the 3 attackers he's refused to rotate. 

Very damning I like the trio on paper but it's not good enough for this level. He has to experiment with one of his other options I like TT, but he can be very stuck in his ways and I'm not so sure anymore that's a character trait that is as endearing as it used to be. 

 

Cucurella, Azpi and Silva as our back three?

 

52 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

With the red card to Koulibaly I would like to see us play Reece and Chilly wing back next game try Cucurella and Azpil in the left and right cb positions outside of Silva. 

5 defensive players and not even one 6 footer amongst them ?

Chilwell 180cm, Cucurella, 175cm, Silva 181cm, Azpilicueta 178cm, James 179cm.

If I'm the opposition forwards I'm going to love that LOL. And if I'm the opposition manager I'm licking my lips at the thought of corners and set pieces, especially with that 5 in front of a keeper who is looking a bit dodgy recently ...  

57 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Tbh I'm not ready to throw Tuchel under the bus just yet. I still hope he signs a contract extension and is allowed time to build HIS team. He only has 3 starting players that have been signed under his watch and bar a horror show today they've all looked good in the small sample time.

Havertz needs to be dropped, maybe Mount too. Thing is I truly believe Mount and Sterling with another world class forward will be a good attack. Yet they will need support from a creative mid/deeplying mid with a an eye for a pass/through ball.

Alongside a structural change because the team are not a league winning team they will continue to only turn up for 1 off games until the squad revamp is complete and we move further forward in the new era of Boehly/Tuchel's CFC.

Looking towards next game I would love to see a front 3 of Sterling, Pulisic and Ziyech.  Perhaps in a back 4 so Pulisic and Ziyech actually play in their position. If not then I want 343 not 3421 I want Pulisic and Ziyech to be wide and the wingbacks to push into midfield to create numerical superiority. 

With the red card to Koulibaly I would like to see us play Reece and Chilly wing back next game try Cucurella and Azpil in the left and right cb positions outside of Silva. 

In midfield we cannot play Gallagher in the pivot it's not his fault he's just not that guy. It's not a fair reflection on what he is as a player and what he brings to the table.

Mendy has to be dropped for 2-3 minimum, games to see if Kepa can challenge him. It's a shame Kepa hasn't got much game time recently because it let's Mendy get complacent he needs to feel like he's not automatically guaranteed to start every game.

Most importantly Tuchel for now escapes too much criticism from me, but I'm starting to grow weary. I won't be surprised if Werner starts tearing it up in Germany like Tammy in Italy. He really has struggled to show any attacking improvements in our players. 

If he truly runs a meritocracy he cannot start both Havertz and Mount next week it's unforgivable. Pulisic or Ziyech deserve a shot, he's not rotated his attack for the first 3 games and we have only scored 3 goals and not one of them have come from the 3 attackers he's refused to rotate. 

Very damning I like the trio on paper but it's not good enough for this level. He has to experiment with one of his other options I like TT, but he can be very stuck in his ways and I'm not so sure anymore that's a character trait that is as endearing as it used to be. 

 

and a front three of Sterling, Pulisic and Ziyech

 

 

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

and a front three of Sterling, Pulisic and Ziyech

 

 

What pics can you serve us up for the midfield and the goalkeeper LOL

 

2 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

What pics can you serve us up for the midfield and the goalkeeper LOL

 

33 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

If Tuchel is THE problem, then who was the problem before him? Lampard? Sarri? Conte? Mourinho? It's always the manager that is the problem with us, it's never the players, it's never the scouting, it's never the people making the decisions to bring these players in. The manager is always the one to be blamed at this club.

But rightly so in a lot of circumstances. All those managers you listed are no longer here for the same reason (with the exception of possibly Conte cause he's a hot head).

These players are all World Class, they don't turn into dross within a few games. If Jose, on second stint and having an amazing season before, wasn't sacked when he was, we would've been relegated for sure. For the sake and future of the club, it is warranted sometimes.

When a large group of the team turn to sh*t, it is normally the manager losing the dressing room. I think Tommy has picked things up when we were crap at times last season, let's hope he can do it again. Sometimes giving a manager too much time can be detrimental going forward as we saw with Jose in 2015.

I don't understand people who still defend Tuchel regarding our offensive woes. It is quite clear that is because of Tuchel. 

But at the same time. People who kept saying that we should played back 4 and play more offensive football is just crazier.  Just watched what happens to our defense once we switched to back 4. It was hilarious. 

55 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Agreed but you have to ask why in that case? Unfortunately when the team is not up for it the buck tends to stop with the manager.

he often looks more bothered about how we play than the players themselves

he would be fuming on the touchline while some players look like they don't really care 

I'd like to see us try 4-2-3-1 with Chalobah restored to RCB, and Hudson-Odoi instead of Mount at RW. Sterling at LW, and one more try for Havertz in false #9, with either Mount or Gallagher behind him.

Move Silva to left centre back and play Ampadu alongside Jorginho in the pivot.

James at right back, and Chilwell at left back. 

 

 

Just now, Sexyfootball said:

I'd like to see us try 4-2-3-1 with Chalobah restored to RCB, and Hudson-Odoi instead of Mount at RW. Sterling at LW, and one more try for Havertz in false #9, with either Mount or Gallagher behind him.

Move Silva to left centre back and play Ampadu alongside Jorginho in the pivot.

James at right back, and Chilwell at left back. 

 

 

No back 4.

2 minutes ago, Mod said:

These players are all World Class, they don't turn into dross within a few games.

They've not.

Pulisic and Ziyech have always been dross.  One was terrible at his previous club the other played in the Dutch league.

If Tuchel had a team of premier league proven performers and wasn't getting a tune out of them I'd get the argument.

But hand on heart can you see any manager on the planet making Pulisic and Ziyech premier league calibre attacking players?

I would throw Havertz in there as well but I believe he's got some talent, but he's never performed well in the Premier league either.

We've been solid defensively more often than not but we massively lack talent in the final 3rd I think that's clear to see even when Tuchels system gets our players in good positions all our wide players are horrifically flawed.

4 minutes ago, Mod said:

These players are all World Class,

Oh come on ... LOL

A large transfer fee and a huge wage doth not world class maketh !