6 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

I agree.  I wouldn't consider buying Maguire.

But the rumour is a swap for Pulisic.

And between the 2 of them Maguire is only one with some actual strengths that could benefit the team even if he's got a number of weaknesses.

You can bring him on late to defend a set piece help shut down a game.  As opposed to all our attacking play shutting down naturally when Pulisic comes on.

And I have a very hard time seeing any of our current centre backs aside from Koulibaly performing in a back 4.

People actually say they want to see a back 4 instead of the 5 but never which of our centre backs they think could actually perform in a 4.

We could have signed De Ligt, Kounde, Fofana... Maguire is a hard pass. I prefer us being the pensioneeeeeeeeeer club than seeing him here.

11 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

By having four attacking players to pass to ahead of the pivot, and encouraging them to be extremely mobile, and supported by the full backs.

Having more player higher up won't help u. Our problem today wasn't steel. We need somebody like kova/Kante to help us progress the ball because Jorgi isn't that guy. When he get pressed he will pass the ball back which invite more pressure which will make Ampadu life harder. 

8 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Having more player higher up won't help u. Our problem today wasn't steel. We need somebody like kova/Kante to help us progress the ball because Jorgi isn't that guy. When he get pressed he will pass the ball back which invite more pressure which will make Ampadu life harder. 

That’s why we could have used FDJ

Tuchel showed last week against spurs that he can outclass a high quality manager. He’s showed it against Pep numerous times. We’ve taken Klopps Liverpool to penalty shootouts. The way he sets up a team against big teams in big games has been very good. Probably the best in the league.

He’s a cup manager, a knockout game against a big team I have hope and believe we can pull it off. Against a mid table team and 36 games a season I don’t have hope.  When tuchel gets 11 players to do their jobs and nullifies the opposition we are one of the best teams in the world. The issue is we don’t win leagues like that

When a team just sit back or surprise us we fold and are out of ideas. With the money we spent and the talent that we have or should have we should be out classing teams on a weekly basis not just big games. The league is harder than it once was but over the course of 2-3 seasons city and Liverpool rarely lose. It’s not hard for them it’s just they have a distinct way of playing that 95% of teams in the league can’t cope with and that falls with their managers. 

I am very much in belief that there is not a lot out there that can be better than Tuchel right now and we should stick with him long term to win trophies in cup competitions as I don’t think Pep or Klopp will be unseated until one of them leaves on their own terms.

Our other solution is to employ a manager with a long term vision and style of play and stick with it through the bad times. An example of this can be Arsenal. Though it’s still early doors there they could easily fold anytime.

These are tuchels players we are signing now and he’s lucky we have a new owner. If we were still under Roman and Tuchel is grappling with Arsenal/Spurs for top 4 at the end of the season he wouldn’t make it to the next one.

 

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We could have signed De Ligt, Kounde, Fofana... Maguire is a hard pass. I prefer us being the pensioneeeeeeeeeer club than seeing him here.

We've tried!

All excellent and much better signings than Maguire.

But we even tried to offer Pulisic + Cash for De Ligt and Juventus didn't want him, only wanted money.

But we couldn't get those deals done.

Edited August 21, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

We are one week out from trashing Tottenham in every way conceivable. Robbed by the ref as we all remember but that was a fantastic performance.

Jumping to conclusions on the back of one extremely poor game is silly.

It’s not one game though. To me, this pattern started at home to Burnley Nov 2021. We drew 1-1 after 35+ shots on goal to their one. 
 

Injuries, fixture congestion, sanctions all impacted us massively from Xmas to now. To me, we haven’t played well for a long time, and I was pleased with the manner of the performance against Spurs - we fully deserved the win and the best we had seen for months. 
 

That said, a low defensive block shuts down Chelsea. A high press forces us into mistake after mistake. We gift goals, do not take our chances, and create so little from midfield. I don’t believe all these attacking players can be that bad - they are starved on any type of service. 

Our own lack of quality has been caught by opposition tactics cleverly exposing our weaknesses. 

27 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

It’s not one game though. To me, this pattern started at home to Burnley Nov 2021. We drew 1-1 after 35+ shots on goal to their one. 
 

Injuries, fixture congestion, sanctions all impacted us massively from Xmas to now. To me, we haven’t played well for a long time, and I was pleased with the manner of the performance against Spurs - we fully deserved the win and the best we had seen for months. 
 

That said, a low defensive block shuts down Chelsea. A high press forces us into mistake after mistake. We gift goals, do not take our chances, and create so little from midfield. I don’t believe all these attacking players can be that bad - they are starved on any type of service. 

Our own lack of quality has been caught by opposition tactics cleverly exposing our weaknesses. 

Yes sure.

But you pretty much summed it up yourself with this "Injuries, fixture congestion, sanctions all impacted us massively from Xmas to now".

You could add Covid to that as well. We were the only club with a major outbreak that never got a Covid-break "funnily" enough.

I don't really think it's fair to blame the manager for any of that though. So at least for me personally I am letting Tuchel start with a clean sheet this season and Tottenham was a very promising performance in my opinion. We obviously have some major problems but I have sympathy for Tuchel there because our squad really is a mess.

Goalkeeper that's not suited to possession football, defenders that will only work in a back 3, injury prone midfield and no striker and at least one quality winger short. We have a lot of problems to fix before we will compete. Make no mistake about it.

I see a lot of people clamoring for a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 or such. Do they realize we literally have 1 CB who might work in a back four? T.Silva obviously would have back in the day but not anymore so that leaves Koulibaly who's got any kind of experience as a CB in a flat four. That's simply never going to work with the squad in its current state.

And that's just defence. You could go on about why a back four wouldn't suit or midfield or attack as well.

 

Edited August 21, 20223 yr by Sindre

I‘ve written off last season, way too many disruptions to have any rhythm or flow. 
This season though needs to be his - it will be a difficult one for sure with the wc and all but still he needs to show how he can work it out in the Prem day in day out. And it‘s not about the title either, that should not a thing to think about. Win your games, simple as that.

His press conference today has given us a snapshot into his thinking, perhaps more than any other Interview he has done since being here.

Today he a) flat out denied it is a system issue; b) insisted that we lost the game due to Mendys error, and c) that we were the better team.

This is all utter nonsense, and instead I put the blame solely on him.

1) Denies it is a system issue, yet time and again, we create hardly anything and struggle as soon as a team press us. Ironically the system also struggles anytime a team sits back against us. Really, the system is good only for 1 type of game, when we are playing a progressive team that are better than us, and in which the system gives us a sluggers chance.

2) He said we lost due to Mendys error. No! We lost because Tuchel has not stopped Mendy trying to play out with his feet. Mendy is clearly the worst keeper with the ball at his feet out of any competitive club, and probably the entire league. Yet, time and time again, Mendy tries to pass it out.  Why is TT not stopping this? If he has tried to stop it, and Mendy keeps trying it anyway, then why does TT keep picking him? This mistake was initiated by Mendy, but it is on Tuchel. He has had more than long enough to get Mendy to stop trying to play with his feet. Just boot it out FFS!!!

3) Leeds wanted it more, ran more, chased more, closed quicker, created more and were hungrier for the win. That doesn't sound like we were the better team. We were slow, reactive and all over the place, and were at times unable to get out or cope with their press. Absolute BS that we were better.

So...As i say, his presser gave a good insight for me into the problem, and if TT genuinely believes the trash he was coming out with, then we are in for a long and frustrating time. He has had long enough to train this players to see their deficiencies, and if he cant get them playing to their strenghts, then we are only going in 1 direction.

TOMMY TICKLE.... WAKE THE f**k UP, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE AND START SMELLING THE ROSES! YOU, YOUR SYSTEM AND THE PLAYERS PERFORMANCES ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AT THE MOMENT AND YOU NEED TO BE PROACTIVE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Yes, had to take responsibilities in public than put it on the GK. Where was that team from Last Sunday? You can't pick and choose games to show up, and it's up to the managers to enforce that. Leeds didn't do much, they just ran all day, a better team would have mitigated their pressing, put the through balls in and put 5 past them. I'd make 5 changes next week just to send a message, in fact he should have made at least 3 at HT. You could lose 3 zip on a bad day, but no excuse not to try harder, from players to manager. The 5 subs rules are there to make the better teams better, even with that we managed to f* up completely.

2 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

We've tried!

All excellent and much better signings than Maguire.

But we even tried to offer Pulisic + Cash for De Ligt and Juventus didn't want him, only wanted money.

But we couldn't get those deals done.

Tuchel costs us Kounde. Tuchel saying he wants a CB like Reece James, well there was Kounde waiting for us.

By we took our time, made him wait and put him like 5th choice going for worse players like Ake, De Ligt and Kimpembe.

Billy Gilmour is much more suited for playing as a 6 in a possession based team than Gallagher is.

Tuchel obsession with playing players out of position is really irritating me.

What other team in league would put one of the best FB in the league and waste his qualities by playing him at CB.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

His press conference today has given us a snapshot into his thinking, perhaps more than any other Interview he has done since being here.

Today he a) flat out denied it is a system issue; b) insisted that we lost the game due to Mendys error, and c) that we were the better team.

This is all utter nonsense, and instead I put the blame solely on him.

1) Denies it is a system issue, yet time and again, we create hardly anything and struggle as soon as a team press us. Ironically the system also struggles anytime a team sits back against us. Really, the system is good only for 1 type of game, when we are playing a progressive team that are better than us, and in which the system gives us a sluggers chance.

2) He said we lost due to Mendys error. No! We lost because Tuchel has not stopped Mendy trying to play out with his feet. Mendy is clearly the worst keeper with the ball at his feet out of any competitive club, and probably the entire league. Yet, time and time again, Mendy tries to pass it out.  Why is TT not stopping this? If he has tried to stop it, and Mendy keeps trying it anyway, then why does TT keep picking him? This mistake was initiated by Mendy, but it is on Tuchel. He has had more than long enough to get Mendy to stop trying to play with his feet. Just boot it out FFS!!!

3) Leeds wanted it more, ran more, chased more, closed quicker, created more and were hungrier for the win. That doesn't sound like we were the better team. We were slow, reactive and all over the place, and were at times unable to get out or cope with their press. Absolute BS that we were better.

So...As i say, his presser gave a good insight for me into the problem, and if TT genuinely believes the trash he was coming out with, then we are in for a long and frustrating time. He has had long enough to train this players to see their deficiencies, and if he cant get them playing to their strenghts, then we are only going in 1 direction.

TOMMY TICKLE.... WAKE THE f**k UP, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE AND START SMELLING THE ROSES! YOU, YOUR SYSTEM AND THE PLAYERS PERFORMANCES ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AT THE MOMENT AND YOU NEED TO BE PROACTIVE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Brilliant post, covers most of what I think, and what happens if it ever transpired, his system didn’t suit the more attacking Werner Orr Lukaku, we’re sniffing you out TT🤫

It's worrying that we can be the better side by far and draw at home to Spurs, and suffer a setback after starting well at Leeds and then never look like getting back in to the game. Mendy made a terrible error, but it should not mean the heads drop and we are done with the game, yet we did, we surrendered. Why? Where was the fight?

 

Poor excuses from TT. You work with the team for a week and that is what we produce?

Without Romans cut throat drive for success we may not be one of the top, top sides anymore soon. 

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

His press conference today has given us a snapshot into his thinking, perhaps more than any other Interview he has done since being here.

Today he a) flat out denied it is a system issue; b) insisted that we lost the game due to Mendys error, and c) that we were the better team.

This is all utter nonsense, and instead I put the blame solely on him.

1) Denies it is a system issue, yet time and again, we create hardly anything and struggle as soon as a team press us. Ironically the system also struggles anytime a team sits back against us. Really, the system is good only for 1 type of game, when we are playing a progressive team that are better than us, and in which the system gives us a sluggers chance.

2) He said we lost due to Mendys error. No! We lost because Tuchel has not stopped Mendy trying to play out with his feet. Mendy is clearly the worst keeper with the ball at his feet out of any competitive club, and probably the entire league. Yet, time and time again, Mendy tries to pass it out.  Why is TT not stopping this? If he has tried to stop it, and Mendy keeps trying it anyway, then why does TT keep picking him? This mistake was initiated by Mendy, but it is on Tuchel. He has had more than long enough to get Mendy to stop trying to play with his feet. Just boot it out FFS!!!

3) Leeds wanted it more, ran more, chased more, closed quicker, created more and were hungrier for the win. That doesn't sound like we were the better team. We were slow, reactive and all over the place, and were at times unable to get out or cope with their press. Absolute BS that we were better.

So...As i say, his presser gave a good insight for me into the problem, and if TT genuinely believes the trash he was coming out with, then we are in for a long and frustrating time. He has had long enough to train this players to see their deficiencies, and if he cant get them playing to their strenghts, then we are only going in 1 direction.

TOMMY TICKLE.... WAKE THE f**k UP, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE AND START SMELLING THE ROSES! YOU, YOUR SYSTEM AND THE PLAYERS PERFORMANCES ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AT THE MOMENT AND YOU NEED TO BE PROACTIVE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Yeah, that is just complete bollocks from Tuchel, especially the better team line. That is Wenger levels of denial. There was nothing about the game that shows we were the better team. From the moment Sterling missed that chance in the first minute, Leeds took full control. There wasn't a single player out there that felt comfortable. If we were the better team, we wouldn't have lost 3-0.

I hope he is just being bitter, I hope he isn't telling the players that he thought they were the better team. The squad needs to hear from their coach that they played really badly and that level of performance is far away from being good enough to challenge for a top 4 spot.

Did not see much improvement in the second half, either the players didn't listen, or he Tuche didn't give them the hairdryer treatment they are deserved. He's well into his second full season, there's no excuse for this kind of performance. We looked like a team just been put together on the day, rather than one been under the same manager for almost 2 seasons. In Pep and Klopp's second season, they had a lot figured out, at minimum a set system everyone feel comfortable with, how to press, how to play out from the back, how to defend set piece. If your GK can't pass, either replace him or tell him stop embarrassing himself and cost team points.  We have spent money, and looked like more to come, there's no excuse if we don't turn things around.

8 hours ago, Sindre said:

Would have thought it was more than 20 with such a huge gap in actual quality. Klopp & Guardiola have handpicked their attack themselves. 

Tuchel inherited a bunch of dross that didn't perform for Lampard either. See the difference?

Outside of Sterling not one of our attackers would be anywhere near City or Liverpools teams. We don't even have a striker for goodness sakes. Us hoping Armando Broja breaks through while the others can field Kane, Nunez, Haaland, Ronaldo etc should probably illustrate the problem well enough.

 

 

I guess we might have to disagree on this.

When 1 or 2 striker failed to score, it could be explained as an outlier (or you can blame the player). But When 5 or 6 players failed to score, it's systemic to me.

If I recall correctly, Mount, Tammy, Giroud, and Pulisic seems to score quite frequently during Lampard's era. 

And you don't really know how well guys like Harvert, Werner, Lukaku could have perform under Klopp or Pep and their systems.

Are we sure, or rather are the owners sure, they want to keep giving him money to spend?

We have spent over 140mill already and don't look any better than last season. In fact we look worse as today and at Everton our displays were really poor.

23 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Are we sure, or rather are the owners sure, they want to keep giving him money to spend?

We have spent over 140mill already and don't look any better than last season. In fact we look worse as today and at Everton our displays were really poor.

Fair point. I think the priority of the new board should be a Director of Football who can make the decisions on new signings. If they throw too much at Tuchel and he ends up leaving, the next manager is potentially left with a bunch of players not suited to their system...

4 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Fair point. I think the priority of the new board should be a Director of Football who can make the decisions on new signings. If they throw too much at Tuchel and he ends up leaving, the next manager is potentially left with a bunch of players not suited to their system...

Over and over again right?

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Over and over again right?

I suppose there will always be a degree of that. But at least if you have a Director of Football making the signings they can also identify managers that would be suited to the squad without a total overhaul. If the board were to fire Tuchel I have no idea who would be making the decision on next manager.

People keep blaming Tuchel for our forwards underperforming but the truth is that this has existed even before Tuchel came. When was the last time a forward scored over 20 goals for our team? Probably Costa which was a handful of years ago and also the last time we won the Premier League. The real problem has been recruitment rather than each and every manager that has coached us in that period (Lampard, Sarri, Tuchel). We've had no good goal scoring forward ever since Costa left the club and that should be pointed at recruitment rather than the manager. Signing Sturridge is a step in the right direction, he just needs a player or two to complement him. 

57 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Are we sure, or rather are the owners sure, they want to keep giving him money to spend?

We have spent over 140mill already and don't look any better than last season. In fact we look worse as today and at Everton our displays were really poor.

Our offense will look fine once kova is back and firing. 

In the mean time, an easy and temporary solution to help our offense is to bring cho back into the team. But it looks like he wanted to leave so who knows. 

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I suppose there will always be a degree of that. But at least if you have a Director of Football making the signings they can also identify managers that would be suited to the squad without a total overhaul. If the board were to fire Tuchel I have no idea who would be making the decision on next manager.

Good points. We need a director of football the board trusts and by all sounds of things the search has been extensive and sadly the first choice, Liverpools former director of football, turned us down.

That is a huge problem.

I will also nail my colors to the mast and say I don't believe TT is the right manager for us going forward.

I am not saying I want him sacked now before anyone suggests that. I do feel he won't be able to take us to the levels of challenging for the title. He had a great six months, just like mendy did. They both were superb in that time, only the FA Cup final loss to Leicester was a black mark.

Last season though I still feel was a failure. 2 more domestic finals, two losses. Yes we won a European charity shield and a world cup charity shield but only an idiot like Rafa would mess those up.

We have spent a bunch of money, 140mill plus of new ownership funds for THAT Leeds display and the delusional statement that were the better side? Wenger glasses there. Not to mention did he ok the Lukaku signing? We don't know but if he did yet more money wasted on his ok.

Some of it is so simple. Like telling mendy you clear the ball either first or second touch, if it has to go to row Z so be it. West Ham, Real now today, how many more screw ups are needed?

Why has our attack become and remained so dull? Many felt Sterling was a world class signing yet he is playing just like Werner was. Timo already has a goal in one appearance for his new side lol.

It shows it does not matter. Whether it is Havertz, Mount, Sterling, Werner, Lukaku, Sterling, Pulisic, CHO, Ziyech etc whoever plays our attack looks poor under TT and has for some time. Why, is every single one of those players useless? Or is it the system, coaching and lack of creativity making them so?

TT should have to work with what he has and prove he can improve these players so we make top 4. Then, if he shows he is up to the task, then TT and the new director of football can make a plan for a long term future.

In the mean time please don't renew his contract, at least not until a director of football is in place and has his feet firmly under the table.

17 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

People keep blaming Tuchel for our forwards underperforming but the truth is that this has existed even before Tuchel came. When was the last time a forward scored over 20 goals for our team? Probably Costa which was a handful of years ago and also the last time we won the Premier League. The real problem has been recruitment rather than each and every manager that has coached us in that period (Lampard, Sarri, Tuchel). We've had no good goal scoring forward ever since Costa left the club and that should be pointed at recruitment rather than the manager. Signing Sturridge is a step in the right direction, he just needs a player or two to complement him. 

Its one thing not having a prolific scorer like Costa at his best. Certainly we haven't had any striker near that since. But even since then we had players like Tammy, Giroud, etc. who were able to weigh in with some goals when they played regularly, even if they weren't regarded as the long term solution. But after Lukaku made a promising start last season our goals have really started to dry up from forwards until Tuchel. We are now almost increasingly reliant on goals from defence, and midfield. I think we are in for some struggles this season unless that changes.