9 hours ago, forbzy said:

Seems like the general pattern with our injured players. Starts with a small knock, nothing serious and should be back in a game or 2. Then a couple of weeks later they are being assessed for treatment, before they go into unknown status for months on end. No doubt he will be out until April now. Lavia seems to have disappeared after having a bruised thigh. Something seriously dodgy going on behind the scenes. 

Agree! Makes no sense, back in the days you had players playing with niggles and I can remember John Terry getting injections daily for a whole year to play under Mourinho. An extreme one was Fabregas getting an extreme bruising on his ankle and legs on the weekend, unable to train,  passing a fitness test the following Wed to start a CL game v Barca, colliding with Puyol during the game and suffering a crack in his fibula, smashing home a pen and leaving the stadium on crutches. With our current lot they would have been out for weeks after suffering the bruising (see Lavia).

Sure the schedule is ridiculous but a gentle reminder our lot are playing 1 game in a week without European football.

Edited January 13, 20242 yr by ducavis

6 hours ago, ducavis said:

Agree! Makes no sense, back in the days you had players playing with niggles and I can remember John Terry getting injections daily for a whole year to play under Mourinho.

And the vast majority of those players are now paying for that physically and sometimes mentally, that is not a good thing, I have no idea why people think we should continue running players in to the ground so their quality of life after they stop playing is terrible. 

And anyone thinking or saying "oh but they get paid well so should be expected to be flogged" is a moron.

30 minutes ago, dkw said:

And the vast majority of those players are now paying for that physically and sometimes mentally, that is not a good thing, I have no idea why people think we should continue running players in to the ground so their quality of life after they stop playing is terrible. 

And anyone thinking or saying "oh but they get paid well so should be expected to be flogged" is a moron.

We actually had a major injury crisis in both 06/07 and 07/08 aswell, Terry being out for a while in the former.

So as amazing as they were the narrative the old guard went all stiff upper lip and got on with it isn't particularly accurate.

Edited January 13, 20242 yr by Argo

33 minutes ago, dkw said:

And the vast majority of those players are now paying for that physically and sometimes mentally, that is not a good thing, I have no idea why people think we should continue running players in to the ground so their quality of life after they stop playing is terrible. 

And anyone thinking or saying "oh but they get paid well so should be expected to be flogged" is a moron.

Fair point. What we need to do is have squads of sufficient size to reduce the games played by players.

Question  for someone like Reece James, you can't be getting 13 million a year if we play you in only half the games and have to employ another play as well. Can't continue to pay ridiculously exorbitant salaries to blokes who spend half of the careers not doing the job they are employed for. Economically that scenario cannot continue.  No club can run squads of 35-40 players on these salary levels.

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

Fair point. What we need to do is have squads of sufficient size to reduce the games played by players.

Question  for someone like Reece James, you can't be getting 13 million a year if we play you in only half the games and have to employ another play as well. Can't continue to pay ridiculously exorbitant salaries to blokes who spend half of the careers not doing the job they are employed for. Economically that scenario cannot continue.  No club can run squads of 35-40 players on these salary levels.

The club offered him a contract, he took the contract, he then got injured and I expect he is absolutely devastated about all the injuries. Not sure what you expect him to do in this situation, give his wage back?

2 hours ago, dkw said:

The club offered him a contract, he took the contract, he then got injured and I expect he is absolutely devastated about all the injuries. Not sure what you expect him to do in this situation, give his wage back?

Not talking about individuals.  You cannot run a squad of 40 players and rotate to prevent continual injuries and pay them all 10m a year.

What you're saying is that to prevent physical and mental issues later in life players need to be conditioned better and be mindful of the physical demands. Agree 100% with that.

Logically therefore to condition players better is to put less demands on them. Therefore play less matches. Therefore carry larger squads..

We can't then complain about the owners commercial attitude over a sporting one if they are having to pay millions and millions to bloated squads. 

More players on less money is the way to go, but who in the game is going to vote for that?

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

Not talking about individuals.  You cannot run a squad of 40 players and rotate to prevent continual injuries and pay them all 10m a year.

What you're saying is that to prevent physical and mental issues later in life players need to be conditioned better and be mindful of the physical demands. Agree 100% with that.

Logically therefore to condition players better is to put less demands on them. Therefore play less matches. Therefore carry larger squads..

We can't then complain about the owners commercial attitude over a sporting one if they are having to pay millions and millions to bloated squads. 

More players on less money is the way to go, but who in the game is going to vote for that?

There needs to be a look at the amount of games players are playing, and the lack of recovery time between them, especially for younger players who's body is still developing up to theyre 20 sometimes. That's not to say a huge squad is needed, it's on the the FA's, UEFA. FIFA etc to get a grip of it all, it's why there's such a ridiculous amount of injuries in the game now, it's becoming farcical. 

Reading stories about how little care ex footballers get from their union,  the FA etc is disgraceful, I think we need to differentiate between the big earning players in the prem and the lower league and non league lads also. 

Does anyone know when his contract runs out? 

Hopefully we get five or six games out of him before it expires.

8 hours ago, just said:

Does anyone know when his contract runs out? 

Hopefully we get five or six games out of him before it expires.

Add Fofana to the list too.. 

21 hours ago, dkw said:

And the vast majority of those players are now paying for that physically and sometimes mentally, that is not a good thing, I have no idea why people think we should continue running players in to the ground so their quality of life after they stop playing is terrible. 

And anyone thinking or saying "oh but they get paid well so should be expected to be flogged" is a moron.

I knew a chap, Stan Charlton, who played for Arsenal and Orient. He had injections to counter pain before games instants later life he could barely walk mainly due to his “treatment “ 

I am 100% with you on this and would suggest that in all likelihood those that are advocating players are somehow patched up to facilitate game time are probably the ones that skip work if they have a sniffle

20 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Fair point. What we need to do is have squads of sufficient size to reduce the games played by players.

Question  for someone like Reece James, you can't be getting 13 million a year if we play you in only half the games and have to employ another play as well. Can't continue to pay ridiculously exorbitant salaries to blokes who spend half of the careers not doing the job they are employed for. Economically that scenario cannot continue.  No club can run squads of 35-40 players on these salary levels.

Squads are big enough and when you add in the U21s the problem is the clubs just ( managers)  won’t rotate. 
 

Injuries this season are horrific and that can’t be a coincidence following the way in which the 22/23 season . It wasn’t just those that played in it the early season schedule was ridiculous 

21 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Fair point. What we need to do is have squads of sufficient size to reduce the games played by players.

Question  for someone like Reece James, you can't be getting 13 million a year if we play you in only half the games and have to employ another play as well. Can't continue to pay ridiculously exorbitant salaries to blokes who spend half of the careers not doing the job they are employed for. Economically that scenario cannot continue.  No club can run squads of 35-40 players on these salary levels.

We registered 95 players in our Sept squad when it was registered in September 23. Ok a significant number were U21 and some out on loan

1 hour ago, terraloon said:

We registered 95 players in our Sept squad when it was registered in September 23. Ok a significant number were U21 and some out on loan

We've realistically got 29 in the first team pool (including Gilchrist) of which 9 are currently unavailable due to injuries/ACoN. Basically, at the moment, everyone that is available is involved in the match day squad (11 starters+9 subs). 

On the club web site they do show 34 "Senior" players, with the extra 5 being Dylan Williams, Michael Golding, Andrey Santos, Dujuan Richards and Malang Sarr. Williams and Golding have made the bench when Pochettino has been unable to name 20 out of the main pool of 29. Richards has just arrived and is probably ear marked more for the U21s. Santos will probably re-join the loan army, and Sarr will hopefully be sold. 

 

On 13/01/2024 at 22:15, WhiteWall said:

Fair point. What we need to do is have squads of sufficient size to reduce the games played by players.

Question  for someone like Reece James, you can't be getting 13 million a year if we play you in only half the games and have to employ another play as well. Can't continue to pay ridiculously exorbitant salaries to blokes who spend half of the careers not doing the job they are employed for. Economically that scenario cannot continue.  No club can run squads of 35-40 players on these salary levels.

The general principle is that the risk should be borne by the party best able to manage it. In this case perhaps injury risk should be shared ? I’m sure workers compensation law has a lot to say on it. Basically a player gets injured while working. I guess you could write injury risk, say a while injured  pay cut by 50% into a contract. But then the player won’t put themselves into a tackle, won’t sprint because of injury risk. With long term contracts the club would have to put something for expected injury risk over life of the contract. 

When is he back?

6 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

We've realistically got 29 in the first team pool (including Gilchrist) of which 9 are currently unavailable due to injuries/ACoN. Basically, at the moment, everyone that is available is involved in the match day squad (11 starters+9 subs). 

On the club web site they do show 34 "Senior" players, with the extra 5 being Dylan Williams, Michael Golding, Andrey Santos, Dujuan Richards and Malang Sarr. Williams and Golding have made the bench when Pochettino has been unable to name 20 out of the main pool of 29. Richards has just arrived and is probably ear marked more for the U21s. Santos will probably re-join the loan army, and Sarr will hopefully be sold. 

 

Up till a few games ago Gilchrist wasn’t even in the equation players like him need to gain the experience of U21s can become “Senior Players “ in a blink of an eye but the PL is so cut throat and managers / coaches can in a blink of an eye go from being comfortable in their position to it being under threat they simply can’t risk exposing U21s to the rigours of the PL.

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, terraloon said:

I knew a chap, Stan Charlton, who played for Arsenal and Orient. He had injections to counter pain before games instants later life he could barely walk mainly due to his “treatment “ 

I am 100% with you on this and would suggest that in all likelihood those that are advocating players are somehow patched up to facilitate game time are probably the ones that skip work if they have a sniffle

Is anybody advocating this. Where has this been mentioned?

26 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Is anybody advocating this. Where has this been mentioned?

Clear reference to players of yesteryear in the thread so try reading the thread

Just now, terraloon said:

Clear reference to players of yesteryear in the thread so try reading the thread

I cannot see anywhere where posters have suggested that players should be taking painkilling injections to play football, or to continue playing whilst seriously injured. 

I think that all elite sportsmen will suffer for their craft to some extent in later years, whether it be repetitive strain, arthritis, etc. I think the discussion was whether football should start to be restructured to cater for teh health of players. Bigger squads, less games for the players (because the clubs will continue to play as many matches as possibel to generate revenue). 

42 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I cannot see anywhere where posters have suggested that players should be taking painkilling injections to play football, or to continue playing whilst seriously injured. 

I think that all elite sportsmen will suffer for their craft to some extent in later years, whether it be repetitive strain, arthritis, etc. I think the discussion was whether football should start to be restructured to cater for teh health of players. Bigger squads, less games for the players (because the clubs will continue to play as many matches as possibel to generate revenue). 

Try reading this post for instance. I might have misread or mistaken the inference but I don’t think so.

On 13/01/2024 at 04:04, ducavis said:

Agree! Makes no sense, back in the days you had players playing with niggles and I can remember John Terry getting injections daily for a whole year to play under Mourinho. An extreme one was Fabregas getting an extreme bruising on his ankle and legs on the weekend, unable to train,  passing a fitness test the following Wed to start a CL game v Barca, colliding with Puyol during the game and suffering a crack in his fibula, smashing home a pen and leaving the stadium on crutches. With our current lot they would have been out for weeks after suffering the bruising (see Lavia).

Sure the schedule is ridiculous but a gentle reminder our lot are playing 1 game in a week without European football.

 

Edited January 14, 20242 yr by terraloon

Just now, terraloon said:

Try reading this post for instance. I might have misread or mistaken the inference but pretty clear to me 

 

Think you are trying to make this fit your argument though. I don't think that  @ducavis is advocating some of the medical procedures previsouly undertaken, although i suspect elements of this does still continue. What gave rise to this whole element of the thread was me, in fact, being somewhat incredulous that Lavia was being sidelined with bruising.

I still don't believe he has yet been declared match fit, so the point i was making was that maybe the bar has been reduced to a level whereby regular injuries that would keep a player out for maybe a game or two at most seem to drag on for weeks and weeks. Maybe our medical team are not such a bunch of incompetents, maybe we have adopted a process to sideline players that may not have serious injuries as we would know them.

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Think you are trying to make this fit your argument though. I don't think that  @ducavis is advocating some of the medical procedures previsouly undertaken, although i suspect elements of this does still continue. What gave rise to this whole element of the thread was me, in fact, being somewhat incredulous that Lavia was being sidelined with bruising.

I still don't believe he has yet been declared match fit, so the point i was making was that maybe the bar has been reduced to a level whereby regular injuries that would keep a player out for maybe a game or two at most seem to drag on for weeks and weeks. Maybe our medical team are not such a bunch of incompetents, maybe we have adopted a process to sideline players that may not have serious injuries as we would know them.

The  debate about injuries seems to be PL wide.

 

https://www.premierinjuries.com/injury-table.php

 

 It may well  be you are right the bar has been reduced but the reference to JT having daily pain killing injections is very much old school and to be honest even in that era was reckless. 
 

 

On 13/01/2024 at 12:44, dkw said:

The club offered him a contract, he took the contract, he then got injured and I expect he is absolutely devastated about all the injuries. Not sure what you expect him to do in this situation, give his wage back?

Absolutely. He's basically injured at work. He's not sitting at home having a beer, he's still at work, probably in pain and trying to get fit again with a lot of hard physical work and with the worry about his future health and fitness.

The idea that they should eventually cripple themselves to play football is ridiculous.

Their pay is absolutely irrelevant in all this.

On 14/01/2024 at 18:05, terraloon said:

Try reading this post for instance. I might have misread or mistaken the inference but I don’t think so.

 

Never said that. My point was most athletes play with so niggle, with our lot they seem a bit too soft.

 

4 hours ago, ducavis said:

Never said that. My point was most athletes play with so niggle, with our lot they seem a bit too soft.

Agreed.

A little too much Arjan Robben, not enough JT.

In general - this isn’t necessarily just about playing through injuries, but instead about players who will fight and give everything to the club. 
 

The past few years we have seen a few player la who appear fair weather friends, but don’t feel like they can be relied on to roll up their sleeves and do the hard graft when needed. 

Edited January 16, 20242 yr by nonotnowjim