1 hour ago, big blue said:

The Sam Wallace article that started all these rumours said he has already agreed a new 6 year contract. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/08/17/newcastle-agree-28m-deal-sign-lewis-hall-chelsea/

It looks like it was all mapped out, long term contract, loan deal sorted, return to the first team squad. Then Newcastle have offered to buy him and he has decided he wants to go, so no contract signed.

1 hour ago, Nick05 said:

This is a joke really. We're throwing away this much money on unknown south american players and here we are selling one of our top prospects for peanuts. Chilwell is made of glass and cucurella doesn't know what he's doing on the football pitch. There was a place for him but the way we're buying anyone under 21 can lead our homegrown players to search for better alternatives elsewhere.

Yeah not good - I thought he looked really good when he was given a chance.

14 minutes ago, Hot Since 1882 said:

From what I've seen of Enzo, he looks like a serious player, a player that will really push a side on - but as an outsider it baffles me why likes of Christensen, Guehi, Tomori, Abraham, Livramento, CHO, Mount, Gilmour, now Hall/Gallagher all playing well enough at other clubs, but all have effectively been replaced to the tune of £1BN over last few years. It seems as a horrible case of selling Peter, just to buy Paul. 

Yes and no. Guehi and Livramento I would have liked to have seen given a chance, Tomori maybe (although that's hindsight talking as i didn't particularly rate his appearances for us) and I think CHO was mismanaged by both Lampard and Tuchel.

Abraham I don't particularly miss, he served a purpose at first but was out of his depth once Tuchel came in and implemented his system (which required strong technical ability and pressing).

Gilmour is an interesting one, I don't think I've ever seen such a big contrast to a players best and worse ever, when on form he wouldn't out of place next to Enzo but when he's bad, he's bad. Looking at the Norwich forums when on loan there i don't think I have seen more brutal reviews of one of our loanees since PVA was at Leicester. He needs to desperately sort out his crippling consistency issues if he's to properly make it at PL level let alone top 6, the fact De Zerbi didn't start him at home to the likely worst team in the league when their midfield is effectively a blank canvas after losing their star men was pretty telling.

Christensen we can't be blamed for, we wanted to keep him he'd have probably been an untouchable starter at this point but he wanted out as soon as he was finally building some consistency after years of us sticking by him when he was sh*tting the bed.

So long story short, some will blame the players some will blame the club but as the truth is largely somewhere in between. With Hall I think we're making a big mistake if we're willingly forcing him out but if your bid has turned his head then it's a different conversation.

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by Argo

@Hot Since 1882

Regarding Hall: He's a talented player for sure. Good technically, good dribbler, dynamic and tenacious. At LB he's been a bit suspect defensively so far, also not overly strong physically. He did better at LWB as he's a constant threat going forward with his attributes, but end product was lacking a bit for the amount of danger he created (couldn't play the last pass at times and missed some good chances). So to summarize, he's still raw, but definetely very talented.

Regarding the others @Argo already explained a lot, but here's my take:

We wanted to keep Christensen, but contract talk broke down and he didn't extend.

Guehi left when we had just won the CL and still had Christensen, Rüdiger, Silva and Azpi (who also played CB in a back 3), so I guess he didn't see a path to the first team and we decided to cash in. Not too gutted about him as I think he's a good player, but not somebody who's ever going to be a starter for us.

Tomori left after being frozen out by Lamps. He did ok when he got a chance for us, but was a bit rash and error prone and imo the worst out of the CB's we had back then. Same as Guehi I think he's good, but not great (lower ceiling than Guehi, but better atm imo), so we did the right thing cashing in.

Abraham also falls into the good but not great category. He'd make a good back up for Jackson, but I doubt he'd be happy with that and 40 million (especially 2 years ago) was too good to turn down.

I'd love to have Livramento right now (although it remains to be seen how he comes back after his injury), but at the time he left he had one year left and didn't see a pathway to the first team with James just breaking through. James is an even bigger talent than Livramento and nobody could know back then that he'd be injured that much, so right decision to back him ahead of Tino.

CHO was never the same after his injury. He lost his pace and dynamism that made him such a dangerous dribbler and could never really reinvent himself as a player.

I was bummed out when Mount left, I think in a functioning team he's an excellent cog. But there appearantly there were disagreements between the club and him, and we got a great sum for him being in the last year of his contract. Also although I think that at his best he's a very good player, he's also not an irreplacable one.

Gilmour only had a few good games and was very overrated as a result. As argo said he's very inconsistent and would look dreadful at times. I don't think he's going to make it above mid table PL team level.

The club wanted to sign Hall up on a new long term contract, then loan him out and see how he developed. He was very much in our long term plans before you turned his head. Not too much we can do about it now. We could force him to stay, but we don't like keeping unhappy players, and oh well 30 million for an 18 year old with a handful of games who wants to leave isn't too bad and we still have another talented young player in Maatsen who can play LB. It's a pity though, I really like Hall as a player.

Gallagher I would like to keep, because he has a unique skillset and genuinely wants to play for the club. He'd make a great, reliable squad player. He is however a bit limited technically and I don't think he'll be much more than a squad player in the long term, so if we get I really good offer for him (45 million or more) I would understand if we sold him even though I'd rather keep him.

Edited August 17, 20232 yr by True Blue23

28 minutes ago, Argo said:

 

 With Hall I think we're making a big mistake if we're willingly forcing him out but if your bid has turned his head then it's a different conversation.

Far from being forced out. Offered a new contract, we wanted him to send him on loan to Palace. Newcastle appeared out of the shadows. He decided he would get senior game time in the NE. Presumably at LB when his preference is midfield but there's little chance, barring a sh*t storm of injury, that he will crack Newcastle's midfield. In short, his choice.

2 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

@Hot Since 1882

 

We wanted to keep Christensen, but contract talk broke down and he didn't extend.

 

As with Rudiger, contract talks were stalled by the sanctions on the club. Prevented from negotiating contracts.

5 minutes ago, Hot Since 1882 said:

By no means meant to be a dig, but looked over your transfers over the last 5/6 years earlier today, and struck how many players you've brought in for considerable money that haven't seemed to actually improve you (CL win can't be sniffed at) - maybe not that then, just the strike rate of your signings seems quite low (Kepa, Werner, Lukaku, Pulisic, Koulibaly, Sterling, even Morata, Bakayoko, Drinkwater). Would this be fair?

Seems whilst your spending money out, your not seeing return for your considerable buck. Would this be fair - what would that been down too? For instance Man U seem to have been in a cycle of always needing 2/3 key signings every summer despite spending over a £1BN. 

That's something I'm delighted with since takeover - where we have spent money, we've seen a high strike rate. As years go on, it does worry that this may not continue to be the case - and to be able to compete in the top 4/6 for next few seasons we really need every £20M+ signing to prove their value. Our biggest cock up was Chris Wood, but some say it was worth it as cocked up Burnley and we got rid to Forest soon enough. Jury is out on someone like Matt Targett, but he was vital for us staying up. 

Our biggest issue at the moment is shifting the dross that Mike Ashley regime stuck on long contracts - Hayden, Hendrick, Fraser all Championship quality when signed and given contracts that are just screwing us now. 

 

All that aside - the signing of Hall excites me massively. Seems a great player that would improve us straight away. LB has been a black hole for us since the era of Jose Enrique. Strikes me as Howe sees him as a player that could play that Zinchenko/Cancelo/Lewis role from full back. Don't see him being first choice for a few months but our current LB is Burn, and really limits us in a fluidity down that left side. He'd defiantly get his share of game time now we're in CL as well this year.

I defiently don't disagree the transfers have been a bit hit and miss and ofcourse if we had the choice between signing Lukaku and keeping Tammy I would have chose the later but had we got our recruitment correct I wouldn't have given Tammy a second thought tbh. That's the largest part of where we've gone wrong in recent years (alongside not keeping some of the academy starlets but defiently not all). Instead of signing Lukaku we should have done what Liverpool did early on under Klopp and took the short term hit until the right player came along.

I do agree your recruitment has been very impressive (especially in midfield, i watch more of your games than most rivals purely because of Guimarães, can't get enough of him). What I've liked the most (ofcourse this is hindsight talking on my part as like many other i thought he was a Ranieri/Hughes type placeholder to get you past the first part of the takeover) is the appointment of Howe. You could have rushed to appoint a big name but instead gone for a young, hungry manager with a point to prove who's still evolving as a manager and so far it's proving to be a 10/10 appointment, hopefully we're looking at Poch in a similar way this time last year (early signs are he's evolved on his biggest weakness as Spurs manager, which was wrestling back control of games going against his team).

We have lost big players and we continued to be successful, I like the kid but business is business now and we are run by VC guys so expect more of this.

7 minutes ago, Hot Since 1882 said:

Did you guys have a sell on clause or buy-back with Livramento and Southampton, that would have forced Southampton's asking price higher? It seems fact that they did with Lavia and Man City, and do with Bazunu/Edozie/Larrios. 

How is Broja doing - has he featured back in pre-season and expected to feature at all for you this season? In an 'FM world', he'd another play on back off showing that season for Southampton wouldn't turn down opportunity of signing for right price. 

Apparently we go 40% of Tino's fee.

Broja hasn't featured at all since his injury, though I think he's back in training now, so maybe soon.

@Hot Since 1882

Hall will be a top talent for you guys, you have the right manager to make this happen. Great energy, great attitude and a wonderful left peg.

As for my thoughts on it, if a player wants to go, does not matter who they are, let them go if we get a fair price.

Would be nice if a Cobham grad could be at the level of JT but, so far, only James and Colwill have shown that potential. 

Livramento is a top talent too, he will be great for you.

Most of the other youths we have let go off were the right calls to sell at the time, best for them, best for us.

I really like this kid, should jock off Cinderella instead, got great technique, quite nippy, sharp in the tackle, and left footed, what ain’t to like Todd.

loan I’m ok with

2 hours ago, dkw said:

It looks like it was all mapped out, long term contract, loan deal sorted, return to the first team squad. Then Newcastle have offered to buy him and he has decided he wants to go, so no contract signed.

Looks signed from what I've read. Do you not think he is being sold mainly because of ffp after last weeks spend? Newcastle have bid multiple times through the summer and yet Hall signed( or the very least agreed to, for arguements sake) and committee to 7 year deal. 

I'm sure he is a happy to go to Newcastle, but reading between the lines we have pulled him the palace loan, and sold him to Newcastle as we overspent last week, and we cant shift Cucurella. I also think this in turn has turned the deal sour with Olise, as Palace no doubt wouldnt have been threatening legal action had Hall been heading there on loan.

20 minutes ago, big blue said:

Looks signed from what I've read. Do you not think he is being sold mainly because of ffp after last weeks spend? Newcastle have bid multiple times through the summer and yet Hall signed( or the very least agreed to, for arguements sake) and committee to 7 year deal. 

I'm sure he is a happy to go to Newcastle, but reading between the lines we have pulled him the palace loan, and sold him to Newcastle as we overspent last week, and we cant shift Cucurella. I also think this in turn has turned the deal sour with Olise, as Palace no doubt wouldnt have been threatening legal action had Hall been heading there on loan.

I can't find anything that proves he's signed the contract, is there something? 

It could easily be we found a chance to sign Lavia then chose to accept Newcastles offer. Not sure that's the right call but I suppose time will tell.

Due to FFP Newcastle are signing him on loan with an obligation to buy next summer.

Think that proves it is not us panic selling him like some suggestions have been.clearly is his call.

13 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Due to FFP Newcastle are signing him on loan with an obligation to buy next summer.

Think that proves it is not us panic selling him like some suggestions have been.clearly is his call.

We should make it an option rather than obligation then?

1 minute ago, Adamrb said:

We should make it an option rather than obligation then?

Should raise the price as we are doing them a favour imo. On top of the 35mill package, (28mill plus add ons) we should be getting a 2-3mill loan fee imo 

14 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Due to FFP Newcastle are signing him on loan with an obligation to buy next summer.

Think that proves it is not us panic selling him like some suggestions have been.clearly is his call.

Also indicates that we are quite comfortable with our FFP position for this season . 

Just now, Adamrb said:

We should make it an option rather than obligation then?

Probably not in our interest. If he's sh*t then we'd be losing out. 

1 minute ago, Hot Since 1882 said:

Read someones take on the deal my end (below) - is that we've been after Hall all summer as a target, and waited until your Caicedo deal had gone through meaning you'd over-sold yourselves on FFP before we declared interest, then actually approached with a bid once brought in Lavia and really over-geared yourselves. We've had Dan Ashworth and our CEO all summer talking about FFP, and how we've got to be creative... different end of the spectrum, but PSG bent out around FFP for Mbappe for loan then buy deal.. 

 

Looks like the deal is a one year loan plus an obligation for your club to buy next summer mate, so does nothing for us in money flow, or FFP, this summer.

1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

Also indicates that we are quite comfortable with our FFP position for this season . 

Probably not in our interest. If he's sh*t then we'd be losing out. 

This season we are comfortable in FFP. So lunch so we can let Aubameyang andZiyech leave on frees and take FFP hits on them.

21 minutes ago, Hot Since 1882 said:

Was more talking from our FFP front - not having £30M odd out until this summer is huge for us. Any contract signed for whatever base fee will still affect your money flow this summer - it's a contract. 

How much of this Newcastle fan stuff can be substantiated - haven't read or said anything that concrete?

Not to sound arrogant, I'd say Newcastle are a bigger draw for him than Chelsea. Guaranteed minutes with only really Dan Burn ahead of him, who's a totally different full back (competing with Paul Dummett and Matt Targett), CL football he'll play in this season, a contract on par with what he'd be getting offered from Chelsea, and supporter of the club? He's obviously got the taste for first team football last season, and behind Cucarella, Chillwell and Matsen amongst other players you've brought in for midfield he's not getting game time he finished last season on. 

Agree with you. Him and his family are Newcastle fans and he has a good shot at playing first team football this season with you guys.

Lamptey, Tomori and Livramento all left for the same reasons, bar the boyhood club bits.

Surely James injured AGAIN means he stays ? 

19 minutes ago, Andy2461 said:

Surely James injured AGAIN means he stays ? 

Why would our first choice right back have anything to do with our 6th choice midfielder/4th choice left back staying?

20 minutes ago, Andy2461 said:

Surely James injured AGAIN means he stays ? 

I don't see how James getting injured makes any difference. Hall's a left sided player, James plays on the right.

3 hours ago, Hot Since 1882 said:

Read someones take on the deal my end (below) - is that we've been after Hall all summer as a target, and waited until your Caicedo deal had gone through meaning you'd over-sold yourselves on FFP before we declared interest, then actually approached with a bid once brought in Lavia and really over-geared yourselves. We've had Dan Ashworth and our CEO all summer talking about FFP, and how we've got to be creative... different end of the spectrum, but PSG bent out around FFP for Mbappe for loan then buy deal.. 

 

Forget Hall. Your fans need to get Amanda and the Sheiks to sign up Lukaku. He'll be great up there. It's so cold he'll have to run around to keep warm. And the stripey shirt should make him look thinner.

23 minutes ago, just said:

Forget Hall. Your fans need to get Amanda and the Sheiks to sign up Lukaku. He'll be great up there. It's so cold he'll have to run around to keep warm. And the stripey shirt should make him look thinner.

£1 loan fee now with an obligation of £100mil next summer. Bargain.