I don't think we have seen the best of Moses yet, more to come me thinks...

The loan system is indeed flawed and operates completely independently from the first team, it is only a players resilience that will see him break into the first team; which is really in spite of any loan. 38 on loan this season, will Abraham get his chance like Rashford? Bamford only features as a sub this year it seems, after such early potential. The fact that Moses has got game time both at club level and internationally (24+ times for Nigeria) has probably played a big part.

2007–2010	Crystal Palace	58	(11)
2010–2012	Wigan Athletic	74	(8)
2012–	Chelsea	30	(3)
2013–2014	→ Liverpool (loan)	19	(1)
2014–2015	→ Stoke City (loan)	19	(3)
2015–2016	→ West Ham United (loan)	21	(1

 

 

Must they get a chance regardless of how they do on loan ??

20 minutes ago, Stim said:

Must they get a chance regardless of how they do on loan ??

Well no, but my point is really we have up until recent games seen none of our own come through; it would be nice to see some of our loanees make it here as it keeps the cost down. When you compare the amount of players that Spurs are bringing through it makes you question the way we go about our business. Bringing in both players from outside and developing our own would be a better way to run the club, don't you think?

Edited October 18, 20169 yr by nutmegsw6

39 minutes ago, Stim said:

Must they get a chance regardless of how they do on loan ??

Yes, absolutely. Loans are not predictive of how a player will perform at Chelsea. 

There is no magic number or indicator. Developing youth is ultimately about sink-or-swim.

1 hour ago, Stim said:

Must they get a chance regardless of how they do on loan ??

If they possess qualities that the first team squad is lacking and display it during their loan spell then I don't see why a youth shouldn't get a chance, that's how loans are meant to operate normally.

Excelling on loan should be a bonus, going by our track record I get the feeling the club sees it as a must. 

I think this covers the club's public stance, though a way of generating financial fair play-exempt funds through the trading of players may well be a fair criticism of this policy..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/12009847/Michael-Emenalo-challenges-Chelsea-youngsters-to-be-the-first-generation-to-finally-graduate-to-the-first-team.html

I think above all the Victor Moses situation shows the inherent risk / flaw of the loan system. The club that loans the player isn't really interested in him long term, just as a quick fix. They aren't interested in his development, playing time, etc. and for various reasons he's one of the easier players to be dropped. The player comes back with a wasted year on loan and fails to progress or even goes back.
And if we look back during the entire stay of Moses at Chelsea: has he ever dissapointed at Chelsea? Sure, maybe for a game or half a game, but over one full season, three preseasons and now this season has Moses ever been anything other than a good impact at Chelsea?

Another thing I learned is that we will never know how good some of our players are until we give them a chance here. Loaning them out sometimes never tells the true story.

10 hours ago, Remodez said:

If they possess qualities that the first team squad is lacking and display it during their loan spell then I don't see why a youth shouldn't get a chance, that's how loans are meant to operate normally.

Well then you agree that it does matter how they do on loan surely?

I can see where the club would prefer excelling on loan because the quality they (and the supporters) expect should excel in the lower leagues.

 

Must they get a chance regardless of how they do on loan ??

If Rashford was on loan at a championship team where he is regarded as a second or third choice striker because of his age, Manchester United won't currently be thinking he can do a good job for their senior team.

25 minutes ago, Stim said:

Well then you agree that it does matter how they do on loan surely?

I can see where the club would prefer excelling on loan because the quality they (and the supporters) expect should excel in the lower leagues.

 

It does matter, just not to the extent people, and the club, seem to think. You can have a mediocre loan spell and still contribute to the first team squad if you have the right qualities.

Youth development isn't that straight forward and I would hope that after spending so much money on the set up, coaching, etc the guys in charge would already know that. From all the talking and such they do on the matter is seems like they are already well aware of the complexities but their actions betray that.

15 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Yes, absolutely. Loans are not predictive of how a player will perform at Chelsea. 

There is no magic number or indicator. Developing youth is ultimately about sink-or-swim.

We have modern day technology and numerous qualified coaches and scouts, between them they should be able to work out which one's have got a bit unlucky on loans and have potential despite that (Baker at Sheff.Wed) and which are quite clearly not good enough (Bamford). I played against numerous player's as a kid, but two stood out, one ended up playing in the football league for about 6 months and the other would have but his lifestyle got the better of him so he was released by the same club, just by playing against all these lads i knew out of all those were the only two that even stood a chance at a professional career, so if a teenage lad who at the time never did any coaching can identify the top talents in the area, surely the qualified coaches and scouts can with access to all the resources they will have at Chelsea.

The point being, is i have never really subscribed to the only way we know they will be good enough is if they play numerous games for Chelsea, if they have got the potential then ok, but for someone like Bamford or Kalas to get numerous games for Chelsea would just be a waste of time for both parties, they are better off finding a permanent transfer at a club more their level (Championship), and we are better off giving that game time (if we are to give it to a unproven youngun) to one's that have a chance, say Solanke and Tomori for example.

looks like another Jose rebel has emerged out of hiding:

"He never spoke to me," Moses told ESPN FC when asked if Mourinho had explained the decision to send him on loan. "I thought in my head, 'He's got his own players already'.

I do hope that Don Antonio uses the 3-4-3 formation & allows Moses to remain in the starting 11 - I think Don Antonio might just do this, because he really believes in Moses' abilities

"The manager came to me and said, 'I feel that you're working hard, I really enjoy watching you play and I don't want you to go out on loan'," Moses added.

You can read the rest of Moses' interview here

looks like another Jose rebel has emerged out of hiding:
"He never spoke to me," Moses told ESPN FC when asked if Mourinho had explained the decision to send him on loan. "I thought in my head, 'He's got his own players already'.
I do hope that Don Antonio uses the 3-4-3 formation & allows Moses to remain in the starting 11 - I think Don Antonio might just do this, because he really believes in Moses' abilities
"The manager came to me and said, 'I feel that you're working hard, I really enjoy watching you play and I don't want you to go out on loan'," Moses added.
You can read the rest of Moses' interview here

Which Don Antonio are you talking about?

I feel like he's been great for us both in this spell, and even in the last. Was unfairly not given a chance under Mourinho. Good to see him back, with a point to prove!

He's not a world beater, but a solid player who gives it his all. Seems a great fit for our system too!

I feel like he's been great for us both in this spell, and even in the last. Was unfairly not given a chance under Mourinho. Good to see him back, with a point to prove!
He's not a world beater, but a solid player who gives it his all. Seems a great fit for our system too!

On today's evidence hes getting better and better...

Moses was solid again today, really taking his chance with both hands, as is pedro tbf, so maybe it is time to stop comparing the 2 when both can co exist in a winning team.

Moses shows that you don't always need superstars - you just need the right player who fits your system. 

Have liked Moses but to be honest never considered him Chelsea quality. Playing really well in his new role, and I'm happy to proved totally wrong.

going from strength to strength under Conte and pushing Hazard and Costa as being our best player so far this season.

1 minute ago, goose said:

Have liked Moses but to be honest never considered him Chelsea quality. Playing really well in his new role, and I'm happy to proved totally wrong.

going from strength to strength under Conte and pushing Hazard and Costa as being our best player so far this season.

Agreed mate, I always thought he was more of a  6th -10th place level in terms of ability. He has some serious pace and I like how he has been tireless in his workrate. Today he was still completing sprints in the 90th minute. 

I think Moses is starting to become a extremely important player to Conte am pretty sure hes one of the first names on the team sheet no with Costa and Hazard . I think Conte rates him extremely highly 

Moses, leading us out of danger and into the promised land...LOL. 

He's really made that WB spot his own. 

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 19:44, Argo said:

Is language like that acceptable on these boards admins?

I thought Moses was only ever going to be considered a winger here, hence the not rating him, if he went back to that position i will again make that stance clear, however at wing back (where the tactical role is a lot different to winger, more space to run into for a start as the fullback wont be be marking as tighlty as he would be a winger, as the move for Leicester goal showed).

Ok then we'll let's talk about what did happen, we spent over £100m, the highest outside of Manchester, we got in the beat midfielder from last season and while the two deadline day defenders were not plan A, they have allowed Antonio to move to a formation that even this early you can probably say has salvaged our season.

Since where were you the language editor in a forum?

What you think does not change the fact that you didn't rate him and now Moses has proven his worth, it's time for you to shut it instead of babbling out excuses of what you think or did not think.

And spending over 100 million pounds this summer when the previous seasons' spending was a pittance means nowt.  Try buying a world class central defender and a midfielder to partner Kante and then we'll talk.  Don't make me laugh at your pathetic reasoning that that Board has salvaged the season - it's Conte that is doing the right things IN SPITE of the inadequate support he has had from the Board.   

Moses has come out tops again versus the Champions in Leicester and Man Utd. 

Keep putting in performances like this and he'll keep his place whilst keeping Ivanovic out of the first team which is great!

Hopefully he doesn't get injured. Really motivated and looking hungry. Sprinting around at 90 mins. Always had a soft spot for him since his first season, mainly because of his strength, direct, style and goal threat. Good to see him flourishing finally.