5 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Of Jose.....yeah me too.

More of the morons who keep regurgitating whatever Mourinho says and whining about it.

7 hours ago, Argo said:

Fergie was a one off, managers should earn the right for full control, Jose actually had it the first time around but lost it when a high % of signings epically flopped. United need to get away from the romantic notion that managers come in and have full control from the off, because of that uou have a bloated squad of that Van Gaal brought that can't get a game (Depay, Schnederlin, Schweinsteiger).

But did JM really have overall control at the bridge? this is the view of the outsider ( as you will probably see things about united that i dont see through my united tinted glasses) there were numerous buys that didnt look like JM players and appeared to be Roman buys. SAF was given total control from the very begining......even when it looked like patience was running thin. United handled the post SAF era absolutely horrendously that is a fact but it does seem that the lessons have been learned and they are looking for stability again. One thing i have noticed about JM is the way he defelcts away from huis players in much the same way that SAF did, he can rub people up the wrong way as anyone can (and SAF certainly did). I really only came here as i am interested in other fans thoughts on various football matters and i had to comment with the slating that JM  was getting.......remember what the man brought you holy sh*t were you one hard team to beat with him in charge. I absolutely hated playing you as we knew we were in for one tough 90 minutes. That said you have a very good manager in Conte.

32 minutes ago, salfordRed said:

But did JM really have overall control at the bridge? this is the view of the outsider ( as you will probably see things about united that i dont see through my united tinted glasses) there were numerous buys that didnt look like JM players and appeared to be Roman buys. SAF was given total control from the very begining......even when it looked like patience was running thin. United handled the post SAF era absolutely horrendously that is a fact but it does seem that the lessons have been learned and they are looking for stability again. One thing i have noticed about JM is the way he defelcts away from huis players in much the same way that SAF did, he can rub people up the wrong way as anyone can (and SAF certainly did). I really only came here as i am interested in other fans thoughts on various football matters and i had to comment with the slating that JM  was getting.......remember what the man brought you holy sh*t were you one hard team to beat with him in charge. I absolutely hated playing you as we knew we were in for one tough 90 minutes. That said you have a very good manager in Conte.

JM never had total control at Chelsea, like I said before in his first stint this was the start of the problems. Chelsea dominated his first 2 years, the third year when Man Utd won the league was when the problems started. Sheva and Ballack was brought in, Chelsea changed formation to accommodate both players, I actually didn't rate Ballack that highly in his first season and he looked better IMO once in a three midfield. Mourinho didn't get the players he wanted and we didn't really have much in defence backup, I remember going to Anfield with Ferrari and Essien playing CB against Torres. Cech,Terry, Carvalho was injured for large parts and so was Robben I think. I'm pretty sure JM wanted players in January as backup but never go them, all he got was Sheva who did nothing.

2 hours ago, salfordRed said:

But did JM really have overall control at the bridge? this is the view of the outsider ( as you will probably see things about united that i dont see through my united tinted glasses) there were numerous buys that didnt look like JM players and appeared to be Roman buys. SAF was given total control from the very begining......even when it looked like patience was running thin. United handled the post SAF era absolutely horrendously that is a fact but it does seem that the lessons have been learned and they are looking for stability again. One thing i have noticed about JM is the way he defelcts away from huis players in much the same way that SAF did, he can rub people up the wrong way as anyone can (and SAF certainly did). I really only came here as i am interested in other fans thoughts on various football matters and i had to comment with the slating that JM  was getting.......remember what the man brought you holy sh*t were you one hard team to beat with him in charge. I absolutely hated playing you as we knew we were in for one tough 90 minutes. That said you have a very good manager in Conte.

 

Second time around he wasn't half the manager he was first time around, even though we won the title and the LC, and we won it playing good football for the first half of the season until he reverted to type and we basically parked the bus for the remainder. His judgement was all askew, letting De Bruyne go, Mata, Luiz etc, preferring Torres to a raw Lukaku etc etc. He was allowed to do things his way. Maybe he didn't get Pogba and Stones but we tried. Remember Conte didn't get Bonucci or Nainggolan. sh*t happens. Jose is a short-sharp-shock type of manager whose methods have a short shelf life with any one single group of players. His biggest defect is that he doesn't trust individual expression, and here he differs greatly from Ferguson. He also doesn't command the same respect as Ferguson, amongst players, journalists, officialdom etc. He can't sustain it is what I'm trying to say. I was shocked second time around at how much he had regressed as a manager. First time around he was incredible, as we all know. Second time around he made poor call after poor call. The other day your lot gave your shirts to your travelling fans after a game which was a nice gesture. Jose came out immediately afterwards and said it was his idea. That's rank bad management in my book, not the idea but taking the credit for it, and the players will soon grow tired of it as they did at Real and Chelsea. Jose's third seasons at both those clubs were pretty disastrous, after incredibly successful campaigns the seasons before. Again, this tells its own story. Basically you're out of the title race but you're starting to get your act together and Jose is up to his old tricks, having subtle digs at other managers, criticising referees, praising other referees, complaining about the fixture schedule and the media etc etc. You better hope you win the title next term because that's your only chance with Jose. He just can't win it in his third term because he has a very limited repertoire of tricks, again unlike Fergsuon. He's turning your players into Jose players, you can see that. Herrera, Jones, Rojo etc, he's getting them to sweat blood to put their bodies on the line to refuse to accept defeat but you have to have more in your armoury to get players to do that over a longer period of time and Jose simply doesn't. You have to have a bit more understanding of what makes players tick, particularly creative players. This season you may win the LC and EL and you may get top 4 and next season you will be serious challengers possibly but there's still no guarantees because the Prem is now far more competitive than ever and Jose just might be up against younger, brighter managers. Anyone would take Klopp over Jose, or Conte for that matter. Sure, they may not have Jose's record but Jose's record has seriously tailed off since he left Inter, and that was 7 years ago. Still successful, yes but on the wane, no doubt about it. Interestingly, last season when we were one place off the drop zone in December, he couldn't find a way to turn our fortunes around, that's when we saw how limited his repertoire of tricks really was. Jose has changed, and not for the better in my mind. We had the best of him, first time around, but even then he was still only a short-term manager. You've now got a very pale imitation and believe me, no matter what approach your board take, it won't be long before people at Old Trafford start to tire of him. I was devastated first time he left, second time I couldn't wait for him to sling his hook.

Davey has written a very good post. I am one of JMs biggest fans and I love what he did for the club but with his second spell some of his antics was embarrassing.

Looking back I don't think he could turn Chelsea around but worst of all he could never turn the players around, he simply lost them.

Short term though I have never seen Jones and Rojo play so well and that's something JM can do.

Disappointed that's hes had a pop at both the fans and club. I appreciate that he may feel bitter about being sacked if he should be respectful and not say anything. After all, it was Jose that came out looking bad last season, not the club. 

Also I love how Jose is having a go at us for playing negative football as if he is trying to play expansive and attacking football. He's trying to fool the United board and fans into thinking he is. 

 

Great post Davey, sums it all well. I definitely think we have had the best of Jose however I'm interested to see what he does now that United have picked up some form and if he can sustain it. 

 

I was numb the first time he left, but angry the second time he departed. However, the club has well and truly moved on and so have the whole fanbase regardless of what you thought of the board's decision 12 months ago.

Jose's best days were with Chelsea (first stint) and Inter Milan. I've always rued the fact that we could not retain him for another three years after 2007 when the spine of the team remained intact, but that's history now.

We can only control the present and so far Conte is doing a magnificent job. Long may it continue!

On December 27, 2016 at 13:56, Ernie_blue said:

Are you talking about the first time Mourinho was manager at Chelsea?  If so you are completely wrong. Mourinho not having full control was the start of the problems.

The transfers in the first two summers were 100 % Jose signings, word is Roman was fixated with Ronaldinho but Jose insisted on Drogba. I think Kezman, SWP and Del Horno lost him a bit of trust in that regard, hence Roman/the board having more of a say from then on. Also not to mention Drogba while wasn't as average as made out, he certainly wasn't justifying the faith to buy him instead of making an audacious and admittedly likely fruitless play for Dinho.

6 hours ago, Jezz said:

I was numb the first time he left, but angry the second time he departed. However, the club has well and truly moved on and so have the whole fanbase regardless of what you thought of the board's decision 12 months ago.

Jose's best days were with Chelsea (first stint) and Inter Milan. I've always rued the fact that we could not retain him for another three years after 2007 when the spine of the team remained intact, but that's history now.

We can only control the present and so far Conte is doing a magnificent job. Long may it continue!

 

The first time he left stung for real. But now, looks like we found a better one.

6 hours ago, Jezz said:

I was numb the first time he left, but angry the second time he departed. However, the club has well and truly moved on and so have the whole fanbase regardless of what you thought of the board's decision 12 months ago.

Jose's best days were with Chelsea (first stint) and Inter Milan. I've always rued the fact that we could not retain him for another three years after 2007 when the spine of the team remained intact, but that's history now.

We can only control the present and so far Conte is doing a magnificent job. Long may it continue!

At the time i felt that too but in hindsight i think it was the right thing, we were stagnating at the start of 07/08 and it we didn't look like turning things around atall under Jose or Avram until Ten Cate came in and improved our attacking play. The more i think about it the more i think i just assumed  we would have turned it around because its Mourinho. The best thing in hindsight for me would have been Jose leaving in summer 2007 with Carlo replacing him till 2010 then after that went for a innovative manager with a good track record of rebuild and squad shaping to replace the ageing core but like you said whats done is done and hopefully with Conte we have found our managerial stability for atleast 5 years.

Edited December 28, 20169 yr by Argo

On December 27, 2016 at 20:01, salfordRed said:

But did JM really have overall control at the bridge? this is the view of the outsider ( as you will probably see things about united that i dont see through my united tinted glasses) there were numerous buys that didnt look like JM players and appeared to be Roman buys. SAF was given total control from the very begining......even when it looked like patience was running thin. United handled the post SAF era absolutely horrendously that is a fact but it does seem that the lessons have been learned and they are looking for stability again. One thing i have noticed about JM is the way he defelcts away from huis players in much the same way that SAF did, he can rub people up the wrong way as anyone can (and SAF certainly did). I really only came here as i am interested in other fans thoughts on various football matters and i had to comment with the slating that JM  was getting.......remember what the man brought you holy sh*t were you one hard team to beat with him in charge. I absolutely hated playing you as we knew we were in for one tough 90 minutes. That said you have a very good manager in Conte.

I think he did at the start but lost it after a while, also im not sure about full control second time round but he certainly had a decent amount as it was him who let KDB and Mata go. It was commendable giving Fergie full control and you were richly rewarded for it but it was a hell of a gamble and while giving Fergie control from the off worked, giving LVG the same has left you lumbered with expensive flops. Jose is a great part of our history and believe me as a 1991 baby i suffered a lot at the hands of yourselves and Arsenal as a kid, so being an impressionable 13 year old sering Jose come in and wipe the floor with both of you's for two seasons i will always be thanful for, but with some of his comments recently i can see why he's rubbing people up the wrong way.

59 minutes ago, Argo said:

The transfers in the first two summers were 100 % Jose signings, word is Roman was fixated with Ronaldinho but Jose insisted on Drogba. I think Kezman, SWP and Del Horno lost him a bit of trust in that regard, hence Roman/the board having more of a say from then on. Also not to mention Drogba while wasn't as average as made out, he certainly wasn't justifying the faith to buy him instead of making an audacious and admittedly likely fruitless play for Dinho.

Sheva was never a Mourinho buy, it was obvious he never had whole control at Chelsea at that point in time.Too many mates involved at board level.

That was when the relationship started going downhill for me and specially the lack of signings for a injury hit squad.

Edited December 28, 20169 yr by Ernie_blue

41 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Sheva was never a Mourinho buy, it was obvious he never had whole control at Chelsea at that point in time.Too many mates involved at board level.

That was when the relationship started going downhill for me and specially the lack of signings for a injury hit squad.

He defiantly didn't have full control in 2006, but he certainly did in 2004 and 2005.

10 hours ago, JM7 said:

Disappointed that's hes had a pop at both the fans and club. I appreciate that he may feel bitter about being sacked if he should be respectful and not say anything. After all, it was Jose that came out looking bad last season, not the club. 

Also I love how Jose is having a go at us for playing negative football as if he is trying to play expansive and attacking football. He's trying to fool the United board and fans into thinking he is.

He must be incredibly embarrassed that Conte is showing him up so easily on and off the pitch, without any negative PR and with class & charm.

Also quite hilarious that Jose is fast becoming a "voyeur" to try and defend himself and bolster his own bruised ego ... :-)

Honestly, the only thing I'm disappointed about is that he said Tottenham are the best team in the league. I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for that...

I'm sure this has been said before, Jose just showed again what a great hypocrite he is. 2:0 against the team at bottom, he celebrated and winded up the crowd like there's no tomorrow, and Conte was disrespectful doing the same against the title favourite

Jose did great things for us and whilst he was a blue his comments and mind games were not so bad, but now he is a red we are seeing him from the other side of the fence, why he feels the need to snipe is mainly because he can not keep it zipped. He comes across now days as a very aggravated person and the longer he is at united the worse he will probably get. I would not be surprised if he eventually alienates most chelsea fans. At the end of the day its all about Jose.

thanks for the "privilege" FA 

 

Jose again calling out a player in public. This time Martial - Jose says he "needs to listen to him, not his agent". 

N

So Dean hands Utd the 3 points today by reducing WH to 10 men and then allowing a 2nd Utd goal when clearly offside but Jose does a Wenger and didn't see these incidents. Funny how he sees EVERY incident which doesn't go his way but never when they get the luck. What a complete bell-end he has become.

Just now, Nibs said:

 What a complete bell-end he has become.

He's always been one to be fair. Was like that all through is second period with us as well.

18 minutes ago, Sindre said:

He's always been one to be fair. Was like that all through is second period with us as well.

True. It's just harder to stomach now he's not OUR bell-end!!

Actually glad we don't have to listen to that same old bollox.

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

True. It's just harder to stomach now he's not OUR bell-end!!

Actually glad we don't have to listen to that same old bollox.

Me too.

It's an absolute relief having Antonio as our manager now. You tend to accept Mourinho for a while when he's your manager but there is a reason he never lasts long anywhere.

 

jose and united are i am sad to say a match made in heaven