Antonio Rudiger

[PhilH930]

Many moving pieces and things to consider here:

• Has arguably become our most important defender and can't blame him for looking at wages of players like Chilwell, Odoi, Werner, etc
• Let's assume we do resign him on 225K p/w; that is 12M per year or 47M over 4 years, plus probably something in the 10% plus loyalty bonus
• Any replacement of similar quality will cost 60M+ (look at Kounde), and lesser quality is not cheap (White at 50M raises eyebrows).  Assume Kounde would be on something around 200K over 5 years (52M), or amortized annually with transfer fee 22M per year
• It doesn't show yet, but we do have a defensive gap.  Silva is 37, Dave is not getting any younger, Chalobah has lots of potential but still relatively unproven, with Christensen growing nicely in a back 3
• The transfer market has changed.  Despite it going bananas with Lukaku, Messi, and CR, generally speaking, PL clubs have substantial purchasing power and little need to sell.  Where would the next defender come from, and who comes to mind beyond Kounde
• Maybe step back and see how Liverpool do this season.  They spent significant sums this summer resigning critical players, with large increases.  Off to a strong start

We will run into our own structural limits, over 30 policy, and candidly Rudi's injury record does not help him. If it were up to me I'd resign him, but we've probably also seen the best from him.

[axman2526]

53 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Many moving pieces and things to consider here:

• Has arguably become our most important defender and can't blame him for looking at wages of players like Chilwell, Odoi, Werner, etc
• Let's assume we do resign him on 225K p/w; that is 12M per year or 47M over 4 years, plus probably something in the 10% plus loyalty bonus
• Any replacement of similar quality will cost 60M+ (look at Kounde), and lesser quality is not cheap (White at 50M raises eyebrows).  Assume Kounde would be on something around 200K over 5 years (52M), or amortized annually with transfer fee 22M per year
• It doesn't show yet, but we do have a defensive gap.  Silva is 37, Dave is not getting any younger, Chalobah has lots of potential but still relatively unproven, with Christensen growing nicely in a back 3
• The transfer market has changed.  Despite it going bananas with Lukaku, Messi, and CR, generally speaking, PL clubs have substantial purchasing power and little need to sell.  Where would the next defender come from, and who comes to mind beyond Kounde
• Maybe step back and see how Liverpool do this season.  They spent significant sums this summer resigning critical players, with large increases.  Off to a strong start

We will run into our own structural limits, over 30 policy, and candidly Rudi's injury record does not help him. If it were up to me I'd resign him, but we've probably also seen the best from him.

Worth also considering that Rudiger has looked nothing like a world class CB in all his time here UNTIL TT came in. Since then he has been top class. 

Evidence points to Chelsea managers not lasting longer than an average 2 seasons. So imagine we resign Rudi to a large money, 5 year deal for this summer and a year later TT is sacked or walks and we go back to good to average Ruidger in a back 4 on large money that we cannot shift and the new manager may just park him on the bench or in the stands.

[ForeverCarefree]

14 hours ago, True Blue23 said:

But is 200k that outrageous? Kai, Timo, Kante and Lukaku reportedly all earn significantly than that, so I think 200k would be deserved. He's a leader and has been one of our best players these last 9 months. He was also very good under Conte and Sarri before that.

£200k a week would (allegedly) make him one of the 4 best paid players at the club. Given that his form during the duration of his time at Chelsea has been....Patchy... Do you go rewarding a player for what could well be a purple patch of form? 

[True Blue23]

He has looked his best since TT came in, no doubt. But apart from that 19/20 season, where every single one of our defenders looked really bad, which points to a systemic error, he was one of our best defenders and not inconsistent at all. So the anomaly is not his form now, but rather that one season where our defensive set up was sh*te. Before that he was a really good CB under Conte and Sarri, who has now evolved to being borderline world class under Tuchel as he hits his prime as a player. 

Put his importance on the pitch as a leader and in the dressing room on top of that, and yes I would be happy with him being one of the 4 best players at the club. Especially considering his replacement would cost a substantial amount of money, would probably not earn a lot less and could be a flop.

[wally]

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

If anything the mega deal CHO is on and offering next to nothing to the side likely makes players who do a lot like Rudiger go "hang on a minute".

That's true! There's no comparison between what CHO and Rudi are giving to the team

Apparently, CHO is turning it on in training but freezing when it comes to matches. If that is the case then it must be mental rather the effects of the injury preventing him playing at a good level.

.

 

[Liam]

14 hours ago, just said:

Let's measure centre-halves against a prime JT and Gallas, and also an aging but imperious Marcel Desailly and Tiago Silva.

If you could just stand still Mr Rudiger whilst I run the tape over you. Thank you. And the inside leg measurement please. Thank you.

You may leave Mr Rudiger.

It is a little unfair to compare him to 4 of the greatest centre halfs of all time. While he might not fit their suits he would be allowed to lace their boots which may be as good as it gets at the moment. 

 

One thing that has really impressed me over the past 9 months is his burning desire not to concede a goal. His also imposing himself on thye opposition which is what you want from your centre half.

[Gordon Bennett]

Rudiger is worth £200k in the current market. The guy has turned into an absolute beast - world class. Get him signed up...!

[coco]

10 hours ago, Liam said:

His also imposing himself on thye opposition which is what you want from your centre half.

 

[ashwin]

He's blossomed into an excellent CB and a leader at the back. And is probably hit his peak now.

I'm sure Tuchel and the club understand his value (in the context of other options) and will give him a good deal if worth it.  

Unlike Arsenal or Spurs, we can trust our management to do the right thing 🙂 no need to second guess just yet.

[LongtimerLurker]

I doubt it would happen but, I'd rather we just resign him for another 2 seasons where we say here have your £200k a week and now you have to justify it.

Rather than signing him to a long-term deal we just give him a bumper deal. He won't be too old when it would be over and there is still time to evaluate whether we want him for the longer term. Crucially we would also expect Tuchel to still be here after 2 more seasons or at least for another 2 seasons and we would assume that Toni would keep his level under these conditions.

[ducavis]

On 17/09/2021 at 14:37, Gordon Bennett said:

Rudiger is worth £200k in the current market. The guy has turned into an absolute beast - world class. Get him signed up...!

He isn’t world class though, he is playing in a system that protects him. 

[ducavis]

On 17/09/2021 at 11:10, wally said:

That's true! There's no comparison between what CHO and Rudi are giving to the team

Apparently, CHO is turning it on in training but freezing when it comes to matches. If that is the case then it must be mental rather the effects of the injury preventing him playing at a good level.

.

 

It was only a matter of time before someone threw CHO’s name in this. CHO isn’t responsible for the wages we are paying him, market forces (Bayern) are the reason why we are paying him those wages. As for what he is giving to the team; blame that on the club and the system deployed by the manager, not the player.

[ducavis]

On 17/09/2021 at 02:29, PhilH930 said:

Many moving pieces and things to consider here:

• Has arguably become our most important defender and can't blame him for looking at wages of players like Chilwell, Odoi, Werner, etc
• Let's assume we do resign him on 225K p/w; that is 12M per year or 47M over 4 years, plus probably something in the 10% plus loyalty bonus
• Any replacement of similar quality will cost 60M+ (look at Kounde), and lesser quality is not cheap (White at 50M raises eyebrows).  Assume Kounde would be on something around 200K over 5 years (52M), or amortized annually with transfer fee 22M per year
• It doesn't show yet, but we do have a defensive gap.  Silva is 37, Dave is not getting any younger, Chalobah has lots of potential but still relatively unproven, with Christensen growing nicely in a back 3
• The transfer market has changed.  Despite it going bananas with Lukaku, Messi, and CR, generally speaking, PL clubs have substantial purchasing power and little need to sell.  Where would the next defender come from, and who comes to mind beyond Kounde
• Maybe step back and see how Liverpool do this season.  They spent significant sums this summer resigning critical players, with large increases.  Off to a strong start

We will run into our own structural limits, over 30 policy, and candidly Rudi's injury record does not help him. If it were up to me I'd resign him, but we've probably also seen the best from him.

Personally feel the system has made the player seem more important than he is. I predicted this was going to happen during the summer window, and you have to blame the club for not looking for alternatives. Presently everyone else has competition bar Rudiger, and we spent the whole summer chasing Kounde when signing a LCB should have been priority. As for who we should have gone for, Laporte wanted out of City and he is a clear upgrade on him.

Personally wouldn’t give him £200k/w, he is playing in a system that makes every defender look better than their abilities. There is a trend in Europe of players in their late 20s running down their contracts for the big sign on bonus and a final large contract. Alaba did it at Bayern and demanded to be made their best player at over €300k/w, Pogba is doing it at Utd and demanding £500k/w, and Rudiger is doing it here. You bow to their demands and your Christensen, Jorginho, Kante will demand at least parity. Bayern moved on and signed a younger player in Upamecano, we should have focused on signing a competition/replacement in the summer.

[Deino]

Tbh he deserves it but if he decides to move on then so be it. Good for him and good for us, Mbuyamba can take his place and learn from Christensen and Azpi if not we replace him with another CB. 

I hope the board don't just bow down just because PSG offered more

[Sexyfootball]

The best replacement for Rudiger would be another striker after we've gone to 4 at the back :-) 

[Jangz]

4 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

The best replacement for Rudiger would be another striker after we've gone to 4 at the back 🙂

Lol .. but for now I would want to sign him up.. looks immense .. how quick is he !

[Deino]

Beast!

[Sexyfootball]

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

Lol .. but for now I would want to sign him up.. looks immense .. how quick is he !

Pretty good striker's movement and finish for his goal today ! Sign him up LOL

[erskblue]

 

[erskblue]

On 18/09/2021 at 01:06, coco said:

 

Brilliant!😀

[PhilH930]

@ducavis made a great point that the system has made the player seem more important than he might actually be.  I don't disagree, and only have to look how Christensen has benefitted, how well Dave covers RCB, and how seamless it was for Chalobah to slot in.

That said, Rudiger is immense right now.  A slightly quieter came for him overshadowed by Silva and Christensen.  Well, he was having none of that with a well taken goal.  I hope we resign him.

[STATS]

On 19/09/2021 at 06:44, ducavis said:

Personally feel the system has made the player seem more important than he is. I predicted this was going to happen during the summer window, and you have to blame the club for not looking for alternatives. Presently everyone else has competition bar Rudiger, and we spent the whole summer chasing Kounde when signing a LCB should have been priority. As for who we should have gone for, Laporte wanted out of City and he is a clear upgrade on him.

Personally wouldn’t give him £200k/w, he is playing in a system that makes every defender look better than their abilities. There is a trend in Europe of players in their late 20s running down their contracts for the big sign on bonus and a final large contract. Alaba did it at Bayern and demanded to be made their best player at over €300k/w, Pogba is doing it at Utd and demanding £500k/w, and Rudiger is doing it here. You bow to their demands and your Christensen, Jorginho, Kante will demand at least parity. Bayern moved on and signed a younger player in Upamecano, we should have focused on signing a competition/replacement in the summer.

The system probably does bring the best out of his ability, but either way he has been brilliant and a major factor in our excellent defensive work. He defends well, drives with the ball and is a leader. If we are not going to reward a player because he is only playing good in one system, then that is wrong. He has been top class and yeah his flaws may be covered in our back 3 formation, but a lot of teams have played 3 at the back and not produced the defensive record we have. Maybe it just means that the team is better using 3 at the back and it is a trick we have been missing.

As with Kante, he is on more than what Rudiger is requesting and Rudiger is couple years younger than Kante and one could argue he is more important to the team. He is the only player in that back three currently who has a guaranteed spot in the team, partly due to us not signing Kounde and selling Zouma. Also, I am sure we offered Kante more wages when we offered him his last contract and he was pretty much around the same age as Rudiger is now.

[ducavis]

1 hour ago, STATS said:

The system probably does bring the best out of his ability, but either way he has been brilliant and a major factor in our excellent defensive work. He defends well, drives with the ball and is a leader. If we are not going to reward a player because he is only playing good in one system, then that is wrong. He has been top class and yeah his flaws may be covered in our back 3 formation, but a lot of teams have played 3 at the back and not produced the defensive record we have. Maybe it just means that the team is better using 3 at the back and it is a trick we have been missing.

As with Kante, he is on more than what Rudiger is requesting and Rudiger is couple years younger than Kante and one could argue he is more important to the team. He is the only player in that back three currently who has a guaranteed spot in the team, partly due to us not signing Kounde and selling Zouma. Also, I am sure we offered Kante more wages when we offered him his last contract and he was pretty much around the same age as Rudiger is now.

Fair point. Kante is the one genuine world class player we have though, and I doubt anyone presently on the team would demand Kante’s wages. Plus we offered him those wages 2 seasons ago when he was a bit younger.

I try not to read to much into player performances when they are due a final contract negotiations, you saw how William performed here and how Pogba is currently doing at Utd. Who could ever predict Willian would end up back in Brazil a season after? & very few players would walk away from a £20m contract like Willian did. Thank God we never handed him the bumper 3yr contract. I reckon the smart move would be to offer him £140k/w on a 3yr contract with option for a 4th, and give him a £5m loyalty bonus to make up the difference.

[axman2526]

Good news that Chriatensen is set to sign a new deal worth 140k a week soon.

If Rudiger was happy with that the deal would be done, unfortunately it sounds like PSG has now put 280k on the table for him and he is inclined to accept it.

[dansubrosa]

If someone came in with a big, big offer for him I'd take it and run. Yeah, he looks world class at the moment and I'm loving every minute of it. But deep down, I think we all know that he's not a truly world class defender is he? He's excelling in this system, what happens if Tuchel goes?

He's clearly messing about with the contract, we should tell him to be reasonable or f*ck off.