5 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Jorginho is Mikel 2.0.

 

 

Yeah, we won a CL title with both while they were starting 🙌

6 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

You say this, but it doesn't actually happen. You're making an assumption based on a stereotype of what he should be, rather than what he offers. If he did half of what people say he does, he'd be signed by Madrid, Barcelona or PSG who are crying out for such a player. Jorginho is Mikel 2.0.

15 years ago Jorginho was a rare style of player. Now there are dozens of players who can and should replace him.

 

 

Next time italy play watch Jorginho it doesn't matter how long, 5, 10 even 15 minutes just watch specifically him and then come back here and tell us what you think of him. Football is constantly shifting and positions are constantly in a flux of innovation. The Jorginho role is just another example. Yes it exists in other teams but, the way he plays specifically is his specific style.

People criticise our team because often we are found wanting leaders, well Jorginho is certainly one. He doesn't hide when he makes mistakes he constantly steps up when we need a spot kick and he commands the midfield and for the most part the team via positional instructions throughout a game.

On the outside these may all seem like basic facets to an average footballer's game but, I promise you he is crucial to both Italy and Chelsea fc. Having such an experienced player with positional know how is so important to a squad especially such a young one like ours.

He reads the game so well, we all know he isn't the fastest player or mobile yet he often covers the most ground of any player in the team (when Kante doesn't play and also for Italy) just look at his stats for the Euros.

3 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

Nice try... I'm not biting!

I'll bite Plokkers. @SydneyChelsea stop this disrespect towards Mikel please! He could defend and run as well as pass sideways and backwards when there were forward options available. 

8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

You say this, but it doesn't actually happen. You're making an assumption based on a stereotype of what he should be, rather than what he offers. If he did half of what people say he does, he'd be signed by Madrid, Barcelona or PSG who are crying out for such a player. Jorginho is Mikel 2.0.

15 years ago Jorginho was a rare style of player. Now there are dozens of players who can and should replace him.

 

 

Man City was after Jorginho, it's very well known that Pep wanted him but then Sarri called... Jorginho has been a key player for Italy and for 3 of our last 3 managers ever since he was signed, I'm yet to hear a top player and a top manager not liking Jorginho.

There might be other players that do the same role but we have only him capable of doing that role. Lampard tried without him and it didn't end well.

2 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Next time italy play watch Jorginho it doesn't matter how long, 5, 10 even 15 minutes just watch specifically him and then come back here and tell us what you think of him. Football is constantly shifting and positions are constantly in a flux of innovation. The Jorginho role is just another example. Yes it exists in other teams but, the way he plays specifically is his specific style.

People criticise our team because often we are found wanting leaders, well Jorginho is certainly one. He doesn't hide when he makes mistakes he constantly steps up when we need a spot kick and he commands the midfield and for the most part the team via positional instructions throughout a game.

On the outside these may all seem like basic facets to an average footballer's game but, I promise you he is crucial to both Italy and Chelsea fc. Having such an experienced player with positional know how is so important to a squad especially such a young one like ours.

He reads the game so well, we all know he isn't the fastest player or mobile yet he often covers the most ground of any player in the team (when Kante doesn't play and also for Italy) just look at his stats for the Euros.

 

Jorginho is currently undropable for Italy he's so vital to the way they play. He's literally the first name on the teamsheet next to Donnarumma.

Sarri, Tuchel, Mancini, Lampard all played him and he's won a number of trophies with us. His italian teammates think he be should in contention for the Ballon Dor and Veratti calls him untouchable.

Mancini built his Italian team around him.

I dont think anyone has a convincing argument that he's not a quality player. I just think he's not your typical holding midfielder and when things go bad he's the easy scapegoat.

 

Edited June 25, 20215 yr by Sheva

3 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Next time italy play watch Jorginho it doesn't matter how long, 5, 10 even 15 minutes just watch specifically him and then come back here and tell us what you think of him. Football is constantly shifting and positions are constantly in a flux of innovation. The Jorginho role is just another example. Yes it exists in other teams but, the way he plays specifically is his specific style.

People criticise our team because often we are found wanting leaders, well Jorginho is certainly one. He doesn't hide when he makes mistakes he constantly steps up when we need a spot kick and he commands the midfield and for the most part the team via positional instructions throughout a game.

On the outside these may all seem like basic facets to an average footballer's game but, I promise you he is crucial to both Italy and Chelsea fc. Having such an experienced player with positional know how is so important to a squad especially such a young one like ours.

He reads the game so well, we all know he isn't the fastest player or mobile yet he often covers the most ground of any player in the team (when Kante doesn't play and also for Italy) just look at his stats for the Euros.

In some of the most recent games I saw that it was Kai that ran a lot and covered a lot of ground in his own role.

Jorginho mainly relies on his positioning, on reading the game but he also presses and if you ask me he makes interceptions and ball recoveries look like a very easy task, the other side of that coin is that he's not that good when it comes to tackles but when he can keep possession and retain it by intercepting you can argue that tackling isn't that needed at all in order for him to be effective in his role.

When you see that he had a 50/51 passes completed against Wales and won 5/8 duels in 75 minutes of play it's very hard to make a rational argument about him not fitting in British football, if anything just look at his first PL season where he just continued to do what he did in Napoli without it being a challenge for him. If he really was just an average player you would think that at least Tuchel or Mancini would have noticed that by now but nope, they simply relied on him and it gave them the results they needed.

If anyone remembers it was Conte's second season where we could clearly see that Man City's way of playing is simply superior for the long term, Sarri came and and the goal was to play like the big teams do and reduce the huge difference from Man City, the ultra defensive mindset that Conte had was changed and Jorginho was the main factor for us becoming a possession-based team there is no question about it. Tuchel took that philosophy and mixed it with the strengths of Conte's tactic where some of our players are the most comfortable defensively speaking and we managed to beat Man City 3 times in a row. So nobody can deny Jorginho being a good player anymore.

He is quality, no doubt about it, but he only works well against top teams and European games where teams play at a slower pace. Very good player to have for that kind of games, but mostly ineffective against physically pressing, low block teams in the PL when he gets easily brushed aside. We need a DM for those games and a better option to Kovacic (Gilmour would be my choice to develop).

14 hours ago, Sheva said:

 

Jorginho is currently undropable for Italy he's so vital to the way they play. He's literally the first name on the teamsheet next to Donnarumma.

Sarri, Tuchel, Mancini, Lampard all played him and he's won a number of trophies with us. His italian teammates think he be should in contention for the Ballon Dor and Veratti calls him untouchable.

Mancini built his Italian team around him.

I dont think anyone has a convincing argument that he's not a quality player. I just think he's not your typical holding midfielder and when things go bad he's the easy scapegoat.

 

i do think that there have been times where he has cost us games.. west brom and arsenal were individual errors.. the thing with Jorginho is that he is a safety first player.. if he can play the way he did against leicester i'd have him every day of the week. but then he gives too much of the astonvilla type performances. Having just one assist and only 3 big chances created all season in 28 appearances is very low for a chelsea mid fielder..

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

If anyone remembers it was Conte's second season where we could clearly see that Man City's way of playing is simply superior for the long term, Sarri came and and the goal was to play like the big teams do and reduce the huge difference from Man City, the ultra defensive mindset that Conte had was changed and Jorginho was the main factor for us becoming a possession-based team there is no question about it. Tuchel took that philosophy and mixed it with the strengths of Conte's tactic where some of our players are the most comfortable defensively speaking and we managed to beat Man City 3 times in a row. So nobody can deny Jorginho being a good player anymore.

Hmm Jurgen Klopp say hi? 

He beat city with maybe half the budget. 

10 hours ago, Jangz said:

i do think that there have been times where he has cost us games.. west brom and arsenal were individual errors.. the thing with Jorginho is that he is a safety first player.. if he can play the way he did against leicester i'd have him every day of the week. but then he gives too much of the astonvilla type performances. Having just one assist and only 3 big chances created all season in 28 appearances is very low for a chelsea mid fielder..

I get he has some limitations like his pace but I think we should be looking further forward in terms of what’s costing us games.

Kai, Mount, Werner, Ziyech and co numbers were pretty lacklustre in the league for the quality they have. Jorginho was top scorer with 7 goals. We were solid at the back when Tuchel come in and Kante and Jorginho were apart of that.  
 

Top 4 finish would been more comfortable if our attacking players turned up more often. If we signed a midfielder it would be to have the quality to cover Kante not Jorginho. As Kantes injuries are catching up with him.

 

12 hours ago, Jangz said:

i do think that there have been times where he has cost us games.. west brom and arsenal were individual errors.. the thing with Jorginho is that he is a safety first player.. if he can play the way he did against leicester i'd have him every day of the week. but then he gives too much of the astonvilla type performances. Having just one assist and only 3 big chances created all season in 28 appearances is very low for a chelsea mid fielder..

It’s not his role to give assists, that would be Kovacic’s and Kante’s, but I totally agree with you. In some games he is a liability and in other games he’s brilliant.  We certainly need to upgrade our midfield, I think we need a DM to play against lower opposition with a back 4. I’d keep Jorginho as he’s very good against teams that come at you and are open. But I think we need to upgrade Kovacic, someone with the ability of carrying the ball forward like him but with better final pass. Probably Gilmour would be the player to do that.

13 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Hmm Jurgen Klopp say hi? 

He beat city with maybe half the budget. 

Took him 4-5 years to build a team.

16 hours ago, RMH said:

It’s not his role to give assists, that would be Kovacic’s and Kante’s, but I totally agree with you. In some games he is a liability and in other games he’s brilliant.  We certainly need to upgrade our midfield, I think we need a DM to play against lower opposition with a back 4. I’d keep Jorginho as he’s very good against teams that come at you and are open. But I think we need to upgrade Kovacic, someone with the ability of carrying the ball forward like him but with better final pass. Probably Gilmour would be the player to do that.

So what is his Job then? 

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

So what is his Job then? 

Don’t shoot the messenger mate, I’m just saying what people in here say, and I partially agree with. His role as deep lying playmaker midfielder is to recycle the ball, protect the defence, keep the game flowing from the back. It’s Kova and Kante who play the role of carrying the ball forward and provide the passes to the space. Now, do I think that’s enough? Nope, I don’t think he’s got the quality to provide Cesc type of passes to break teams up, and he hasn’t got the long range vision. He’s done that from time to time, but not consistent enough.

OMG!! I can't beleive we are still arguing about Jorginhos role in the team and what he brings to the team. I pray the mods don't close this thread when he finally leaves Chelsea because people will still be arguing about Jorginho when he leaves us and even after he retires..🤣

On 25/06/2021 at 12:48, Sheva said:

I dont think anyone has a convincing argument that he's not a quality player. I just think he's not your typical holding midfielder and when things go bad he's the easy scapegoat.

I think there's three categories he's grouped into by different people (both fans and pundits) which doesn't help.

Some see him as an extension of Sarri still lurking about, others see him as one of the players who contributed to Frank's downfall and others think he has taken Kante away from his "best position".

Combine the three together and you have the perfect formula for a wipping boy.

1 hour ago, The Don Antonio said:

OMG!! I can't beleive we are still arguing about Jorginhos role in the team and what he brings to the team. I pray the mods don't close this thread when he finally leaves Chelsea because people will still be arguing about Jorginho when he leaves us and even after he retires..🤣

And then in 10 years this thread will be still going if Jorginho becomes a manager 

1 hour ago, The Don Antonio said:

OMG!! I can't beleive we are still arguing about Jorginhos role in the team and what he brings to the team. I pray the mods don't close this thread when he finally leaves Chelsea because people will still be arguing about Jorginho when he leaves us and even after he retires..🤣

It was inevitable with all the drooling over him playing for Italy

1 hour ago, Argo said:

I think there's three categories he's grouped into by different people (both fans and pundits) which doesn't help.

Some see him as an extension of Sarri still lurking about, others see him as one of the players who contributed to Frank's downfall and others think he has taken Kante away from his "best position".

Combine the three together and you have the perfect formula for a wipping boy.

Or maybe he doesn't have the phyical attributes to be consistenly good in the PL but gets away with it in certain games. No one thinks of him as a Sarri player any more and no one think sKante is a simple DM any more.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

I think there's three categories he's grouped into by different people (both fans and pundits) which doesn't help.

Some see him as an extension of Sarri still lurking about, others see him as one of the players who contributed to Frank's downfall and others think he has taken Kante away from his "best position".

Combine the three together and you have the perfect formula for a wipping boy.

That’s simply not true, I don’t fit into any of those categories. I think he’s a very good player under certain conditions and not useful under other conditions. I don’t think he is Sarri’s player (by the way, I wanted Sarri to stay for stability), I never thought he was responsible for Lampard’s sacking, and never thought Kante was a sitting DM. In fact, not many fans that I know think of Jorginho as any of this categories, maybe one I know doesn’t like him because of Sarri, the others are indifferent towards him. But yes, he’s no favourite player for the majority of Chelsea fans, but not that many hate him.

20 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

Or maybe he doesn't have the phyical attributes to be consistenly good in the PL but gets away with it in certain games. 

He has been one of the most consistent players for us in the PL though... You won't find a player that is consistently good in all PL games for 3 seasons in a row.

6 hours ago, RMH said:

That’s simply not true, I don’t fit into any of those categories. I think he’s a very good player under certain conditions and not useful under other conditions. I don’t think he is Sarri’s player (by the way, I wanted Sarri to stay for stability), I never thought he was responsible for Lampard’s sacking, and never thought Kante was a sitting DM. In fact, not many fans that I know think of Jorginho as any of this categories, maybe one I know doesn’t like him because of Sarri, the others are indifferent towards him. But yes, he’s no favourite player for the majority of Chelsea fans, but not that many hate him.

Sorry just to make it clear I wasn't saying everybody who has doubts/reservations of him think like that (your comments have been fair generally) but I think all those three have contributed to a general negative opinion towards him.

9 hours ago, Argo said:

Sorry just to make it clear I wasn't saying everybody who has doubts/reservations of him think like that (your comments have been fair generally) but I think all those three have contributed to a general negative opinion towards him.

i actually think the three categories are -

1. Fans who think he is a very consistent performer and probably in the level just below world class, whose good performers go unnoticed and he is an easy whipping boy  - plus should start majority of our games
2. Fans who think he is only above average, does the basics well but fails against teams that want to sit back or team that play a direct pacy style. - he should be a squad player and probably play against certain types teams
3. Fans who think his physicality, lapses in concentration and inability to play progressive football costs us game - he should be replaced

I think i am somewhere in category 2 for now.

17 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

OMG!! I can't beleive we are still arguing about Jorginhos role in the team and what he brings to the team. I pray the mods don't close this thread when he finally leaves Chelsea because people will still be arguing about Jorginho when he leaves us and even after he retires..🤣

It will always continue because a lot of fans try to put Jorginho as the same category as busqquet, cesc, pirlo, or Thiago. 

But he is closer to rodri, mikel, Hojberg type. 

 

 

On 25/06/2021 at 03:11, SydneyChelsea said:

You say this, but it doesn't actually happen. You're making an assumption based on a stereotype of what he should be, rather than what he offers. If he did half of what people say he does, he'd be signed by Madrid, Barcelona or PSG who are crying out for such a player. Jorginho is Mikel 2.0.

15 years ago Jorginho was a rare style of player. Now there are dozens of players who can and should replace him.

 

 

What an absolute load of horse-tosh. It's comments like this that urked me in to making an account on here.

 

Simply awful... Awful, awful, awful. Not only is what you said completely ludicrous (in that he's actually quite an exclusive type of player), you've also done a jobby on the club you 'support' by downplaying us to the likes of PSG.

 

Suggestion: -

1) Go and study the game a bit from a midfielder's perspective (focusing on the modern game);

2) Watching him without your 'anti-Jorginho' specs on.