1 hour ago, Mod Stark said:

Giroud is world class is he not?

If what constitutes a World Class player is playing at a high level for their international team and winning things at a club level, then he would pass as world class.

Not jumping in your argument here Mano, just making that point.

.... and in general, I agree with you on the Youtube thing.

Giroud has always been a dependable player who can hold the ball up well, and is good against tired legs. In contrast, it can be argued that too much of his game is lacking to be in the category of world class. For example, Giroud went something like 20 goals in his last Arsenal season without a goal. Most strikers when you think of world class --Kane, Aguero, Lewandowski-- have not suffered from that. Going back to the Leicester title-winning season, and even Conte's season, most of them would agree that Lacazette or Auba would've made them far more competitive to the title than Giroud, and you wouldn't say either of those are 'world-class' (well, perhaps borderline in some instances). In his world-cup season, many would argue that all you needed was a tall, strong striker to help out -- if many other players can do that, then it goes against him have world-class i.e unique ability. 

Players like Aguero for example also have other tenets -- i.e being big-game when it's necessary, and scoring against top end teams. Giroud hasn't done that. Suarez has showcased that. Kane to a lesser extent. In addition, all of these players have regularly scored multiple goals over the season, 20+ in many cases, whereas Giroud hasn't been able to match that! Giroud also suffers from another thing: less fitness. He's tired out many occasions in his seasons for Arsenal, which is why him as an impact-sub have always given his better performances. If his best performances come from the bench, you can't really say he's world-class 

Somebody like Firmino isn't world-class, but is an excellent player that allows Salah to play his game. If you put him in Conte's title winning team, he would look sh*t. If you added Aguero in comparison to any team, or Kane, he would elevate most of them while still being able to play his game normally. Giroud doesn't have that ability. If his other tenets are enough to put him in the league with those, the definition of world-class, at least in my eyes, would become too loose and thus lose any kind of meaning. Hence, he simply fits into the profile of a good player, but not a world-class one. 

 

 

57 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He could have the same hype being from anywhere else giving his talent and what he has done so far for his national team, you are too much focused on the US and not even thinking about his ability as a player. Youtube is a good start, at least it's showing what the player is capable of and there you don't see what nation he's from you just see his skills...

Now this, the opinion of a Borussia fan can be taken in many ways since they are just about to lose Pulisic to us and many fans tend to re-assure themselves by suddenly seeing all the negative things because it's easier to just think that they don't need a player like Pulisic. Even so, one of the things said there by the fan is that Pulisic isn't overhyped because he's American, so your opinion about him being from the US makes him too much hyped goes against what you yourself posted.

 

Mate the title of your video is literally '30 SKILLS that will leave you speechless'. Do you think that's actually going to give out the deficines and his overall level of consistency in his game play? You seem to have the impression I haven't watched him; I have, which is why showing youtube videos doesn't add anything to the overall point. Why don't you tell me what he possesses that makes him the next world beater if you're so confident 

The second point is just dumb. Yes, lets attribute all the in-depth analysis to Dortmund fans being bitter about losing a player that was benched by another for a lot of the season. Let's ignore the plenty of non-Dortmund fans from the Bundesliga agreeing with it. What about the point in paragraph 5 which literally referenced the ratings he'd been given over the course of the Bundesliga? Which point can seemingly be riddled with bias that makes it so incorrect? 

About the american point; it doesn't go against my opinion. On the contrary -- it suggests that circumstances are his favor; that just lessens the point about American being the sole criteria

Edited June 2, 20197 yr by MANoWAR

14 minutes ago, MANoWAR said:

Mate the title of your video is literally '30 SKILLS that will leave you speechless'. Do you think that's actually going to give out the deficines and his overall level of consistency in his game play? You seem to have the impression I haven't watched him; I have, which is why showing youtube videos doesn't add anything to the overall point. Why don't you tell me what he possess that makes him the next world beater if you're so confident 

The second point is just dumb. Yes, lets attribute all the in-depth analysis to Dortmund fans being bitter about losing a player that was benched by another for a lot of the season. Let's ignore the plenty of non-Dortmund fans from the Bundesliga agreeing with it. What about the point in paragraph 5 which literally referenced the ratings he'd been given over the course of the Bundesliga? Which point can seemingly be riddled with bias that makes it so incorrect? 

About the american point; it doesn't go against my opinion. On the contrary -- it suggests that circumstances are his favor; that just lessens the point about American being the main criteria (not even my argument as well -- just that  a big aspect  is attributed to him being from there

 

You do sound like you never watched him, just saying because you sound as if he being 20 year old and having that amount of high level gameplay in him already is something that any other 20 year old has to offer, are you serious?
One similar young player we once had, it was De Bruyne, he also wanted to have the ball in his feet and to go forward and challenge the opposition, sure he was losing the ball and needed more time but the simple attitude of wanting to be a leader on the pitch and wanting to have a responsibility like that set him apart but sadly Jose didn't like that since he was far too rigid and now he's a back-to-back Premier league champion with Man City. 

Nobody is saying that he has the end product of an already world class veteran but it's pretty obvious that he has the potential to become one, and here are you saying that he's only hyped because he's from USA. And no, it doesn't help your case that even Borussia fan thinks that he's not overhyped.

36 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You do sound like you never watched him, just saying because you sound as if he being 20 year old and having that amount of high level gameplay in him already is something that any other 20 year old has to offer, are you serious?
One similar young player we once had, it was De Bruyne, he also wanted to have the ball in his feet and to go forward and challenge the opposition, sure he was losing the ball and needed more time but the simple attitude of wanting to be a leader on the pitch and wanting to have a responsibility like that set him apart but sadly Jose didn't like that since he was far too rigid and now he's a back-to-back Premier league champion with Man City. 

Nobody is saying that he has the end product of an already world class veteran but it's pretty obvious that he has the potential to become one, and here are you saying that he's only hyped because he's from USA. And no, it doesn't help your case that even Borussia fan thinks that he's not overhyped.

Quote

 

You do sound like you never watched him, just saying because you sound as if he being 20 year old and having that amount of high level gameplay in him already is something that any other 20 year old has to offer, are you serious?

 

 

 

I think saying he is a talented player vs saying he's the next big thing is a lot more reasonable, in particular when one's based off watching games and the other from youtube highlights. 

Second point: You mean in the Bundesliga where he got more assists there any other period in his history? And scored more than Pulisic there any he ever has? The guy who was spraying hollywood passes  like it was nothing? All of his time in a squad far inferior to Dortmund right now -- and where he has somebody like Pep to guide him to world-class level?

Quote

Nobody is saying that he has the end product of an already world class veteran but it's pretty obvious that he has the potential to become one, and here are you saying that he's only hyped because he's from USA. And no, it doesn't help your case that even Borussia fan thinks that he's not overhyped.

Wrong. Nope, nowhere did I say he's only hyped because from the USA -- in fact I have said several times he's a talented player, just not 'the next big thing', and given that we seemingly seem to disagree a lot on this, what better way than to give the opinion of somebody who's followed his career more closely than either of us? It's undeniable that his birthplace has given him certain hype where another  like Lithuania wouldn't give him. I mean, even our chairman said that he's going to help us with the us fan base 

Quote

 

And no, it doesn't help your case that even Borussia fan thinks that he's not overhyped.

 

 

 

I mean, my point was arguing against you saying he's the next big thing, not that he wasn't talented. Whereas I think the point from him works quite good: 

 Personally, I don't expect him to become an era defining player over the next year or so, but I don't believe he'll be a flash in the pan forgotten by 25 either. No, he won't be Ronaldo or Messi, and probably not Hazard or Reus either. But he might be a Son or Shaqiri level player in a few years. He will have a solid career, here or elsewhere. 16/17 he was good. Last season he was w**k, and this season he is peripheral to Sancho.

Any player that is gonna be the next big thing would have far better description than that last line, and would've had far more of  the input than  has been written about him 

 

Edited June 2, 20197 yr by MANoWAR

48 minutes ago, MANoWAR said:

I think saying he is a talented player vs saying he's the next big thing is a lot more reasonable, in particular when one's based off watching games and the other from youtube highlights. 

Second point: You mean in the Bundesliga where he got more assists there any other period in his history? And scored more than Pulisic there any he ever has? The guy who was spraying hollywood passes  like it was nothing? All of his time in a squad far inferior to Dortmund right now -- and where he has somebody like Pep to guide him to world-class level?

Wrong. Nope, nowhere did I say he's only hyped because from the USA -- in fact I have said several times he's a talented player, just not 'the next big thing', and given that we seemingly seem to disagree a lot on this, what better way than to give the opinion of somebody who's followed his career more closely than either of us? It's undeniable that his birthplace has given him certain hype where another  like Lithuania wouldn't give him. I mean, even our chairman said that he's going to help us with the us fan base 

I mean, my point was arguing against you saying he's the next big thing, not that he wasn't talented. Whereas I think the point from him works quite good: 

 Personally, I don't expect him to become an era defining player over the next year or so, but I don't believe he'll be a flash in the pan forgotten by 25 either. No, he won't be Ronaldo or Messi, and probably not Hazard or Reus either. But he might be a Son or Shaqiri level player in a few years. He will have a solid career, here or elsewhere. 16/17 he was good. Last season he was w**k, and this season he is peripheral to Sancho.

Any player that is gonna be the next big thing would have far better description than that last line, and would've had far more of  the input than  has been written about him 

 

Agreed that next big thing is pushing it a little.  Clearly Mbappe is the youngster currently who fits that label best.

I’d put Pulisic’s floor at the level of someone like Willian, with his ceiling being one of the top wingers in the PL.

I haven't really seen him play apart from a couple of Dortmund games where he came on as a sub. For me he looked like another dribbler/energy sub player. He is still very young but I don't see him being as valuable as we paid of him. At least footballwise. He might be a great marketing tool for American market. 

Anyway I really hope I'm dead wrong. We need a super-talent now that Eden is going.

I'm nowhere near convinced by Pulisic, but at the same time, I hope things end up being similar to how Salah's career has gone. Before we bought Salah, I thought he looked really good at Basel, he had everything but the finish, that is probably why we bought him. We could see the potential there, but we didn't really give him time to release it with us and we sold him. He's now added end product to his game and he's one of the best players on the planet. I'm hoping this is what happens with Pulisic for us. 

Some of you fans are beyond spoilt I hope he doesn't get booed like Jorginho and Sarri' he's still 20 and learning.

11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You do sound like you never watched him, just saying because you sound as if he being 20 year old and having that amount of high level gameplay in him already is something that any other 20 year old has to offer, are you serious?
One similar young player we once had, it was De Bruyne, he also wanted to have the ball in his feet and to go forward and challenge the opposition, sure he was losing the ball and needed more time but the simple attitude of wanting to be a leader on the pitch and wanting to have a responsibility like that set him apart but sadly Jose didn't like that since he was far too rigid and now he's a back-to-back Premier league champion with Man City. 

Nobody is saying that he has the end product of an already world class veteran but it's pretty obvious that he has the potential to become one, and here are you saying that he's only hyped because he's from USA. And no, it doesn't help your case that even Borussia fan thinks that he's not overhyped.

These players are literally worlds apart, both in mentality and skill set. What a bizarre comparison to try and make. 

I think he’ll be quality. Excited to have him in the team

49 minutes ago, rtwelch said:

I think he’ll be quality. Excited to have him in the team

Would have been better to play alongside Hazard. But as a Hazard replacement? Im not sure...

Had we paid £30m for him i wouldn't have an issue, it makes a mockery that Dortmund have managed to go and sign T.Hazard and Brandt for £22m each and pocket £16m pocket change from selling Pulisic. 

Both Hazard and Brandt would have instantly improved us right now, whilst having just as much potential.

Quite looking forward to seeing CHO on the left and Pulisic on the right. 

Will be refreshing to see us have some genuine and direct pace in the wide areas. 

7 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Had we paid £30m for him i wouldn't have an issue, it makes a mockery that Dortmund have managed to go and sign T.Hazard and Brandt for £22m each and pocket £16m pocket change from selling Pulisic. 

Both Hazard and Brandt would have instantly improved us right now, whilst having just as much potential.

Keep hearing about how we should have signed Brandt and Hazard instead and i don't get it

Brandt plays basically the same position as RLC, pointless spending money on him when we also have Mount coming through

T.Hazard is a good player but he's 27 next season and will never be a truly top player IMO if we wanted to buy a ready made attacker to perform straight away we could do a lot better than Hazard

Pulisic is only 20, has the world at his feet and has the potential to be better than those two. So much unfair stick directed at him, he's still so young so obviously he's not the finished article but he has the potential to be a top player 

 

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

These players are literally worlds apart, both in mentality and skill set. What a bizarre comparison to try and make. 

I would rate Pulisic much higher quality wise,  then KDB at 20 y/o.

13 minutes ago, Sparkz said:

Keep hearing about how we should have signed Brandt and Hazard instead and i don't get it

Brandt plays basically the same position as RLC, pointless spending money on him when we also have Mount coming through

T.Hazard is a good player but he's 27 next season and will never be a truly top player IMO if we wanted to buy a ready made attacker to perform straight away we could do a lot better than Hazard

Pulisic is only 20, has the world at his feet and has the potential to be better than those two. So much unfair stick directed at him, he's still so young so obviously he's not the finished article but he has the potential to be a top player 

 

Brandt played out on the wing this season, more than he played through the middle. 

13 goals 12 assists isn't anything to be scoffed at from the wing. This is a player that has JUST turned 26 and is yet to enter his prime. For 1/3 of the price too. 

How can you possibly say he has the potential to be better than these two when his career has shown no such indication of doing so.

The 'stick' directed at him is completely warranted until he does anything to remotely justify his price tag other than being young and American.

8 minutes ago, Hazard STAY said:

I would rate Pulisic much higher quality wise,  then KDB at 20 y/o.

pmsl.

4 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

pmsl.

Why? Kdb at 20 was surely not as good as Pulisic is at 20.

5 minutes ago, Hazard STAY said:

Why? Kdb at 20 was surely not as good as Pulisic is at 20.

KDB at 20 was the main focal point at Werder Bremen with 10 goals and 10 assists in 34 games.

Pulisic at 20 has been benched by an 18 year old lad and a half dead Mario Gotze. 

1 hour ago, Sparkz said:

Keep hearing about how we should have signed Brandt and Hazard instead and i don't get it

Brandt plays basically the same position as RLC, pointless spending money on him when we also have Mount coming through

T.Hazard is a good player but he's 27 next season and will never be a truly top player IMO if we wanted to buy a ready made attacker to perform straight away we could do a lot better than Hazard

Pulisic is only 20, has the world at his feet and has the potential to be better than those two. So much unfair stick directed at him, he's still so young so obviously he's not the finished article but he has the potential to be a top player 

 

Brandt and RLC are two entirely different players and can play together. Brandt this season has essentially played a KDB/Silva-sequel “free” 8/10 role, with lots of passes in advanced areas. 

Thorgan seems to be very underrated,and we need to remember he was playing for an average M.Gladbach side that he almost got into the CL. 

I would gladly have taken both players, fingers crossed Pulisic comes good.

14 hours ago, MANoWAR said:

..........

 ....Personally, I don't expect him to become an era defining player over the next year or so, but I don't believe he'll be a flash in the pan forgotten by 25 either. No, he won't be Ronaldo or Messi, and probably not Hazard or Reus either. But he might be a Son or Shaqiri level player in a few years. He will have a solid career, here or elsewhere. 16/17 he was good. Last season he was w**k, and this season he is peripheral to Sancho.

 

 

Blablabla ok you think so and I think the opposite, that he, along side Hudson-Odoi will become a world class winger that will define a new generation at the Bridge, he can be the next Hazard basically and funny enough they are the same height, so I choose to hold on my opinion and not to already write-off a big talent so that's the difference between us.

51 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Brandt played out on the wing this season, more than he played through the middle. 

13 goals 12 assists isn't anything to be scoffed at from the wing. This is a player that has JUST turned 26 and is yet to enter his prime. For 1/3 of the price too. 

How can you possibly say he has the potential to be better than these two when his career has shown no such indication of doing so.

The 'stick' directed at him is completely warranted until he does anything to remotely justify his price tag other than being young and American.

The 'stick' is not warranted at all. It's not Pulisic's fault that we decided to pay £60 million for him. If you feel the need to criticise the signing you should be aiming it at the club, nothing Pulisic can do about it.

4 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

These players are literally worlds apart, both in mentality and skill set. What a bizarre comparison to try and make. 

Both have 1 thing in common, they want the ball and want to be leaders on the pitch, we missed out on De Bruyne that turned out to be a world class player for Man City, so hopefully we won't miss out on Pulisic when he starts demanding the ball in his feet even if he does lose it from time to time, the comparison is only as a warning sign and as a reminder how we lost a great player.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Brandt played out on the wing this season, more than he played through the middle. 

13 goals 12 assists isn't anything to be scoffed at from the wing. This is a player that has JUST turned 26 and is yet to enter his prime. For 1/3 of the price too. 

How can you possibly say he has the potential to be better than these two when his career has shown no such indication of doing so.

The 'stick' directed at him is completely warranted until he does anything to remotely justify his price tag other than being young and American.

I think saying Hazard and Brandt have more potential is the wrong argument.  I think it's more so that, right now, Hazard is definitely a better player than Pulisic, and there's a strong case that Brandt is as well.  If we are basing everything on potential, then Pulisic has more - he's 6 and 3 years younger than them, respectively, and has definitely shown the tools to be on their level at their ages. 

 

Age 20 seasons:

Hazard: 24 appearances, 3 goals, 6 assists (Belgium)

Brandt: 29 appearances, 9 goals, 5 assists (Germany)

Pulisic: 20 appearances, 4 goals, 4 assists (Germany)

There's really not much difference.

 

Hazard and Brandt were probably better signings when you weight cost and ability right now.  It's understandable as to why Pulisic cost what he did, though.

Also, Brandt played half of his appearances at attacking midfield this season, with 6 of his 10 goals and 10 of his 17 assists coming from there.  So if we are going to throw out stats as a measure, then it appears he was much better and more productive from midfield rather than the wing.

I know the 13 goals and 12 assists you listed were Hazard's stats, but I'm just addressing your point that Brandt is more of a winger, when really he's 50/50 a winger and AM in regards to appearances.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Blablabla ok you think so and I think the opposite, that he, along side Hudson-Odoi will become a world class winger that will define a new generation at the Bridge, he can be the next Hazard basically and funny enough they are the same height, so I choose to hold on my opinion and not to already write-off a big talent so that's the difference between us.

What a comment, I can't tell which part is my favourite - thanks a lot for this 

 

 

Edited June 3, 20197 yr by MANoWAR

2 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

The 'stick' is not warranted at all. It's not Pulisic's fault that we decided to pay £60 million for him. If you feel the need to criticise the signing you should be aiming it at the club, nothing Pulisic can do about it.

Its unbelievable isnt it, people seem desperate to take shots at him before he`s even kicked a ball, its such a weird attitude to have.