I believe his best position for us is the false 9 or striker position. On paper he looks like a good number 10 but fails to deliver in that position. The problem we have with him in the false 9 is that he doesn't have runners to play off him. Ziyech CHO and to some extent Mount prefer the ball to feet. He is better off playing with a Werner or Pulisc like in the UCL Final

I think he's the best as a number 8 or number 10. False 9 is closest to that. But even as a normal striker recently he can get into spaces and he won a penalty recently. His finishing needs some work though if he's going to play as a striker.

6 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

I believe his best position for us is the false 9 or striker position. On paper he looks like a good number 10 but fails to deliver in that position. The problem we have with him in the false 9 is that he doesn't have runners to play off him. Ziyech CHO and to some extent Mount prefer the ball to feet. He is better off playing with a Werner or Pulisc like in the UCL Final

Aren’t Werner & CHO runners? The others definitely prefer it to feet

On 03/11/2021 at 12:28, ducavis said:

Aren’t Werner & CHO runners? The others definitely prefer it to feet

Werner is a runner. Cho is more of a dribbler but he can be molded to add off the ball runs to his game since he is still young

On 03/11/2021 at 17:41, The Don Antonio said:

I believe his best position for us is the false 9 or striker position. On paper he looks like a good number 10 but fails to deliver in that position. The problem we have with him in the false 9 is that he doesn't have runners to play off him. Ziyech CHO and to some extent Mount prefer the ball to feet. He is better off playing with a Werner or Pulisc like in the UCL Final

What is the difference between 10 and false 9? 

 

Edited November 5, 20214 yr by Bob stark

19 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

What is the difference between 10 and false 9? 

 

As a 10 he would have a striker in front of him to play off of.

3 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

As a 10 he would have a striker in front of him to play off of.

So basically very2 similar 

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

What is the difference between 10 and false 9? 

 

A ten is meant to be a playmaker and connect the midfield and attack . The last real number 10 we have had at Chelsea was Juan Mata . Havertz rarely makes defence splitting passes and has a low number of assists. 

A false 9 on the other hand is a striker that starts as the focal point of the team but roams around the pitch and makes decoy runs to create space for the other attacking players to attack.

I think he has been decent as a false 9 except recent finishing could have been better.

Generally impressed that he has improved markedly since last season.

12 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

A ten is meant to be a playmaker and connect the midfield and attack . The last real number 10 we have had at Chelsea was Juan Mata . Havertz rarely makes defence splitting passes and has a low number of assists. 

A false 9 on the other hand is a striker that starts as the focal point of the team but roams around the pitch and makes decoy runs to create space for the other attacking players to attack.

Nah, there is no requirement for no 10 to play like Mata. I saw Lingard play as 10 differently, I saw Thomas muller play that role differently. 

Roaming is morw about the player and especially the manager (is he willing to allow the player to roam because it is very2 bad for your defensive structure, we saw hazard roaming as lw, messi roam as rw, lol even United have Ronaldo no 9  and bruno no 10  both roaming which made everything turn into chaos) 

Essentially no 10 is almost exactly the same as false 9. They just mean you play mostly between the line in central area. Like what @True Blue23 said the only difference is that there is no cf in front of him when you play as a 10. 

So does kai spend most of his time dropping and play between the line or playing higher, battling cb, running the channel. 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 20214 yr by Bob stark

There are variations in the roles that number 10 players will focus on, some will be more noticed whil playmaking others while shooting but what is common to all is that such players are versatile with multiple qualities. That is a very important thing to take in consideration, a player like Havertz is really talented and he needs the freedom in order to be at his best because when he has the space he can read the game, make great passes and have good timing on his runs and so on.

But our team had some problems in the recent seasons regarding the off-ball movement and creating openings/breaking down the opponents so only at times we saw just how smart Kai is at reading the game at such a young age.

When we look at how he played prior to coming here, he was mainly an attacking midfielder in that number 10 role but since that label can contain others at moments he did in fact look like he was at times a different type of a player. In some instances where he scored he looked like a shadow striker, a role in which he was very forward but still there was someone around him and then he would run into space and score from inside the box, then he would also look like a Mata/Kaka type of an attacking midfielder that makes a few flicks or through balls and then cuts inside for an easy finish or gets an assist.

False 9 isn't really the role that got him here but it's the closest to the number 10 role in the sense that Kai in that role gets tons of space to work with because he's still centrally placed and has the freedom to move around without the ball in a huge area and he also gets to come deep and involve other players and to make runs that would get him into a scoring chance, but also his understanding of space allows the 4 players behind him to get more involved and to cut inside. He's also a tall player that can score headers so his aerial threat gets into play there and despite him not having the best acceleration he covers a lot of ground which makes our pressing game more effective.

If anything, this season so far has shown that our biggest reliance or strength going forward are our full-backs that cut inside. Kai used to cut inside and he used to move into channels prior to coming here in a 4-2-3-1 where he was the number 10 as the lone AM, in our system here with Tuchel in a 3-4-2-1 it's mainly the full-backs that do that so he should be able to pass into space towards Chilwell or James if he was the AM which would resemble him passing to the wingers of Leverkusen but as the striker his understanding of space and good movement can influence those behind him to cut inside or to have more space in the final third. It's also important to note that we are a possession-based team, not many teams will dare to open up and to play an open game against us so it's rarely that we see Havertz running on the counter attack, in comparison the Bundesliga is a more open league and with more space Havertz gets to be more effective than others but I think that the one counter to Havertz being a false 9 in our system is to park the bus because he puts a lot of attention to himself and that gets the wide players free to cut inside.

 

 

Edited November 6, 20214 yr by Gol15

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

There are variations in the roles that number 10 players will focus on, some will be more noticed whil playmaking others while shooting but what is common to all is that such players are versatile with multiple qualities. That is a very important thing to take in consideration, a player like Havertz is really talented and he needs the freedom in order to be at his best because when he has the space he can read the game, make great passes and have good timing on his runs and so on.

But our team had some problems in the recent seasons regarding the off-ball movement and creating openings/breaking down the opponents so only at times we saw just how smart Kai is at reading the game at such a young age.

When we look at how he played prior to coming here, he was mainly an attacking midfielder in that number 10 role but since that label can contain others at moments he did in fact look like he was at times a different type of a player. In some instances where he scored he looked like a shadow striker, a role in which he was very forward but still there was someone around him and then he would run into space and score from inside the box, then he would also look like a Mata/Kaka type of an attacking midfielder that makes a few flicks or through balls and then cuts inside for an easy finish or gets an assist.

False 9 isn't really the role that got him here but it's the closest to the number 10 role in the sense that Kai in that role gets tons of space to work with because he's still centrally placed and has the freedom to move around without the ball in a huge area and he also gets to come deep and involve other players and to make runs that would get him into a scoring chance, but also his understanding of space allows the 4 players behind him to get more involved and to cut inside. He's also a tall player that can score headers so his aerial threat gets into play there and despite him not having the best acceleration he covers a lot of ground which makes our pressing game more effective.

If anything, this season so far has shown that our biggest reliance or strength going forward are our full-backs that cut inside. Kai used to cut inside and he used to move into channels prior to coming here in a 4-2-3-1 where he was the number 10 as the lone AM, in our system here with Tuchel in a 3-4-2-1 it's mainly the full-backs that do that so he should be able to pass into space towards Chilwell or James if he was the AM which would resemble him passing to the wingers of Leverkusen but as the striker his understanding of space and good movement can influence those behind him to cut inside or to have more space in the final third. It's also important to note that we are a possession-based team, not many teams will dare to open up and to play an open game against us so it's rarely that we see Havertz running on the counter attack, in comparison the Bundesliga is a more open league and with more space Havertz gets to be more effective than others but I think that the one counter to Havertz being a false 9 in our system is to park the bus because he puts a lot of attention to himself and that gets the wide players free to cut inside.

 

 

False 9 isn't really the role that got him here

🤔🤔

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

False 9 isn't really the role that got him here

🤔🤔

He played mainly as AM.

11 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Nah, there is no requirement for no 10 to play like Mata. I saw Lingard play as 10 differently, I saw Thomas muller play that role differently. 

Roaming is morw about the player and especially the manager (is he willing to allow the player to roam because it is very2 bad for your defensive structure, we saw hazard roaming as lw, messi roam as rw, lol even United have Ronaldo no 9  and bruno no 10  both roaming which made everything turn into chaos) 

Essentially no 10 is almost exactly the same as false 9. They just mean you play mostly between the line in central area. Like what @True Blue23 said the only difference is that there is no cf in front of him when you play as a 10. 

So does kai spend most of his time dropping and play between the line or playing higher, battling cb, running the channel. 

 

 

 

I never said all number tens have to play like Mata, I just said he was the last true number 10 we had. I agree with you about others playing the position differently. Bruno Fernandez played the position for Man u last season by running into the box off the striker and scoring goals. With all these False positions it wont surprise me if a coach invents a false 10. lol.

I think people want to shoe horn havertz in the number 10 position but he is terrible at it for Chelsea and even Germany. He easily loses the ball in the midfield battle and rarely tries dangerous passes. 

 A false nine is a centre-forward who repeatedly moves towards the ball in deeper positions from a high starting position, often dropping to receive centrally. The main intention is to get on the ball away from the opposition centre-backs – and, in doing so, to draw players out of position and disrupt the defence.

The main positive of Playing Havertz in a false 9 is that he doesn't have to be engaged with the defensive midfielders in the opposition team as he would if he was in the number 10 position.  

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

He played mainly as AM.

🤐🤐🤐

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

🤐🤐🤐

Not sure what is your problem

Should have scored a couple more, that being said, that was a fantastic header.

Good header, better delivery but still feel 'meh' with him

3 hours ago, Deino said:

Should have scored a couple more, that being said, that was a fantastic header.

German Morata - just stick it on his bonce. 

A very well placed header, some good link up play. Just not a top performance overall from him o4 any of our attackers.

What's with all the strikers in the last 5 years, the more time with the club the worse they become with finishing. He had a good game, but damn should have scored more and wrap it up the game before Burnely had a shot at us. Would Lukaku or Werner do better? I have doubt too, they have been missing some sitters before the injury

2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

What's with all the strikers in the last 5 years, the more time with the club the worse they become with finishing. He had a good game, but damn should have scored more and wrap it up the game before Burnely had a shot at us. Would Lukaku or Werner do better? I have doubt too, they have been missing some sitters before the injury

Think this game was like the last claret and blues we faced at home. Without Lukaku we are 1-0 and facing the same scenario as today. With him he burried Villa.

They key is making these sort of chances with Lukaku in the side, as there is no doubt he is a better finisher than Kai or Timo. Unfortunately his injury finally bit us today and he may well be back for the next 3 where he will get little chances and the regulars will be back complaining about him.

I actually thought Havertz had his best game yesterday since Lukaku got injured, mainly because he wasn't really playing like a traditional striker. He was coming deep to receive the ball, picking it up in midfield and driving forward. If Havertz has to fill in for Lukaku, then I would rather he played like that than just play as Lukaku's direct replacement. Havertz is not a striker and I think it would be a waste of his talent to try and turn him into one. The problem is getting him into the side regularly once Lukaku does return, I don't really see how we do that with the formation we play.

31 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I actually thought Havertz had his best game yesterday since Lukaku got injured, mainly because he wasn't really playing like a traditional striker. He was coming deep to receive the ball, picking it up in midfield and driving forward. If Havertz has to fill in for Lukaku, then I would rather he played like that than just play as Lukaku's direct replacement. Havertz is not a striker and I think it would be a waste of his talent to try and turn him into one. The problem is getting him into the side regularly once Lukaku does return, I don't really see how we do that with the formation we play.

He will be back competing with Mount, Werner, CHO and CP.

Ideally he is given the role Barkley had yesterday. He will play it much better imo.

Edited November 7, 20214 yr by axman2526

21 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Good header, better delivery but still feel 'meh' with him

Same.