24 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

 

Kai had been given numerous chances and opportunities to show his worth and grow with this team, under both managers.

The "other guy" wasn't, if what I heard here was accurate.

 

We need to be careful we don't repeat what happened with Salah. Kai is still young.

Ziyech on the other hand should be moved on imo.

5 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

We need to be careful we don't repeat what happened with Salah. Kai is still young.

Ziyech on the other hand should be moved on imo.

Kai is a great talent, no question about it. We would be absolutely stupid to sell him.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Kai is a great talent, no question about it. We would be absolutely stupid to sell him.

It would be I agree. He needs to work his socks off and he will win the fans back over, as Timo did.

He's 21 I don't understand how we could even contemplate moving him on. It's like people see the price tag and think that's the player we're buying.  It's his potential that we've bought him for and you can argue he's already paid back some of the faith we have in him contributing to last season's historic climax. 

Give him time and watch him develop, it's important to remember who's in our squad (Christian, Mason, Reece, Trevor, Callum and ofc Kai are all below the age of 23).

It's scary what they could become if they stay together, their chemistry and potential could be a dynasty in the making.

Add in the players on loan alongside the ones still yet to hit their prime Timo, Ruben, Ben and Andreas. It's scary that they've only spent 1 full season together, we don't know how good this squad could become. 

They're playing with top level athletes who have reached the pinnacle of club and for some international level football (Azpil, Silva, Kovacic, Jorginho and Kanté). Time is on players like Kai's side, so why wouldn't we want to give it him? 

The point is to learn from history and not to make the same mistakes, we don't want players like Kai to leave after just 2 seasons even 3 seems early.

Edit: Yes we can't compare Kai to KDB because one has won the ucl at 21 and scored in the final the other hasn't. 

Salah and KDB were projected by our scouts to be good players, I'm sure they were right about Kai too.

Edited October 4, 20214 yr by LongtimerLurker

Haven't been impressed by him this season, had high expectations after the tail end of last season and his performances in the Euros. However, I still believe he will imrpove and come good, the idea that he should be sold isn't one I agree with.

7 hours ago, axman2526 said:

It would be I agree. He needs to work his socks off and he will win the fans back over, as Timo did.

Did Timo win the fans back by scoring against Southampton? I mean if it was that easy he could lose them as soon as the next game, no? 

I think the poor form of some players is more due to our tactic, in the end of the day Havertz and Mount are equally having a pretty bad drought and winning a lower-end team like Southampton doesn't mean that much. 

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Did Timo win the fans back by scoring against Southampton? I mean if it was that easy he could lose them as soon as the next game, no? 

I think the poor form of some players is more due to our tactic, in the end of the day Havertz and Mount are equally having a pretty bad drought and winning a lower-end team like Southampton doesn't mean that much. 

No it was not the goal, the fans have been chanting for him at every game, after a season riddled with unbelievable misses. 

Because he always puts a shift in we are still behind him. 

11 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

No it was not the goal, the fans have been chanting for him at every game, after a season riddled with unbelievable misses. 

Because he always puts a shift in we are still behind him. 

I don't think that Havertz is any worse.

Some of the posts are hilarious.

People: 21/22 yo going through a rough patch so sell him.

Same people: we will always regret selling Salah and KDB, how could we do something so stupid.

And this is a player who was instrumental in winning us the Champions League - his performances in the end of last season including the semis and final were fantastic. 

Hilarious to see the Ross Barkley love in because he made one good pass 😂 I'm happy Barkley is there as a squad player. He is hardly the future.

 

1 hour ago, ashwin said:

Some of the posts are hilarious.

People: 21/22 yo going through a rough patch so sell him.

Same people: we will always regret selling Salah and KDB, how could we do something so stupid.

And this is a player who was instrumental in winning us the Champions League - his performances in the end of last season including the semis and final were fantastic. 

Hilarious to see the Ross Barkley love in because he made one good pass 😂 I'm happy Barkley is there as a squad player. He is hardly the future.

 

couldnt agree more.. and the fact is that 352 or 343 seems to be a forward killing formation. Not a single player is thrived in this formation.. Under Conte it was a one man show at most times with Hazard.. and Costa for half a season.. other than that all our forward players have struggled and these are players who have a decent track record.. Under tuchel post january we only scored 3 goals in one game out of 20+ and most others were 1-0s.  

I do think with the attacking talent, his pedigree as a coach we can adopt a 4-3-3 .. that would really excite me to be honest.

Sell him ! Has the world gone mad !!

Cus there's no way the club would recoup 70 mill currently bc his recent form is woeful (yes I do know he scored in the CL final and a header at Crapfield recently)

some Kraut must of had a big laugh when they cashed Romans check 18 months ago, very similar I imagine to a person in Spain when Balboa cashed the Kepa check 3 years ago !

Seriously - he's shown glimpses of his alleged 'generational' talent to date but at the moment he cant hold a candle to other top young players in the league like Phil Foden or our very own MM. Needs to pull his finger out and get serious for the money he's being paid and start to affect games rather than be ineffectual in them?

 

 

 

For the life of me I can't understand how people think he's young. 21/22 isn't young in regards to 'experience' these days. 'Young' players are clocking up 150 odd matches+ by their 22nd birthday. I wouldn't start a job on 50k a year and justify it to my employers by saying 'I might be amazing in 5 years, so you should definitely pay me a quarter of a million for the luxury of finding out'. 12 more months I say before we have to consider our options. I'll get booted and laughed at for this but replace him with a John McGinn and we'd be a better team.

6 hours ago, thebluekid said:

For the life of me I can't understand how people think he's young. 21/22 isn't young in regards to 'experience' these days. 'Young' players are clocking up 150 odd matches+ by their 22nd birthday. I wouldn't start a job on 50k a year and justify it to my employers by saying 'I might be amazing in 5 years, so you should definitely pay me a quarter of a million for the luxury of finding out'. 12 more months I say before we have to consider our options. I'll get booted and laughed at for this but replace him with a John McGinn and we'd be a better team.

You can't be serious, right?  21/22yr old might be experienced but he's still a young man. He needs to mature at his own pace and realize how he can use his talents to impact games with this team and when opponents employ tactics to limit him. 

It's also funny how you want to get rid of a 22yr old in favour of a 26yr old. Don't you see the irony? 

Edited October 5, 20214 yr by Deino

If we dont want him I am sure Bayern would take him and do wha they they with the Arsenal lad.

On 04/10/2021 at 23:41, Jangz said:

couldnt agree more.. and the fact is that 352 or 343 seems to be a forward killing formation. Not a single player is thrived in this formation.. Under Conte it was a one man show at most times with Hazard.. and Costa for half a season.. other than that all our forward players have struggled and these are players who have a decent track record.. Under tuchel post january we only scored 3 goals in one game out of 20+ and most others were 1-0s.  

I do think with the attacking talent, his pedigree as a coach we can adopt a 4-3-3 .. that would really excite me to be honest.

I really don't understand with this 343 is not good 433 is the way to go. Formation is not really the key, if you want excitement and I assume you want fast football like pool football then we need two more midfielder. 

 

On 05/10/2021 at 10:03, thebluekid said:

For the life of me I can't understand how people think he's young. 21/22 isn't young in regards to 'experience' these days. 'Young' players are clocking up 150 odd matches+ by their 22nd birthday. I wouldn't start a job on 50k a year and justify it to my employers by saying 'I might be amazing in 5 years, so you should definitely pay me a quarter of a million for the luxury of finding out'. 12 more months I say before we have to consider our options. I'll get booted and laughed at for this but replace him with a John McGinn and we'd be a better team.

There are many top players who at the same age were not anywhere near the same level. Grealish for instance was playing in the Championship at same age. McGinn at same age was playing in the SPL for Hibernian. Vardy we all know where he was at same age. Havertz stats for Bayer Leverkusen at the age before he joined Chelsea was fantastic and is rare to find a player that impressive stats at same age. One of the worse mistakes we could do to give up on him. 

I can't actually believe this comment actually 😄 

Imo it's a win of a CL with a decisive goal. That really is not easy to work out mentally for a young guy like Kai. The signing of Lukaku also thretens Kai most of all attacking players in the squad. Add a poor runf of form to the mix and you have the current Kai situation. But it has in my eyes nothing to do with developement or for godsake talent. He's one of the finest talents out there.

I think the inclusion of Lukaku is the biggest and most difficult part for him to adapt to. Maybe it's mostly the absence or not on top form of Mount, who connects a lot of profiles and makes them click, until now that makes a Havertz - Lukaku - Mount formation work well (same with Werner imho). I don't see him and Rom alongside Werner right now and a Havertz- Rom - Ziyech (if in form) combo seems questionable as well (while I can imagine Werner playing in that last one instead of Kai).

2 hours ago, weetee said:

I think the inclusion of Lukaku is the biggest and most difficult part for him to adapt to. Maybe it's mostly the absence or not on top form of Mount, who connects a lot of profiles and makes them click, until now that makes a Havertz - Lukaku - Mount formation work well (same with Werner imho). I don't see him and Rom alongside Werner right now and a Havertz- Rom - Ziyech (if in form) combo seems questionable as well (while I can imagine Werner playing in that last one instead of Kai).

Before playing a false 9 for us, Kai was on the bench for Tuchel, he clearly does the best while playing centrally just like he did for Leverkusen, alternatively on the right side as some kind of an inside forward but Werner managed to assist and score from that position in the recent matches and it should be easier for him to play with Lukaku so we should stick with that. Mount on the left side with CHO and Pulisic as the players that will fight for that position and Kai to fight for the false 9 and to play on the right side.

34 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Before playing a false 9 for us, Kai was on the bench for Tuchel, he clearly does the best while playing centrally just like he did for Leverkusen, alternatively on the right side as some kind of an inside forward but Werner managed to assist and score from that position in the recent matches and it should be easier for him to play with Lukaku so we should stick with that. Mount on the left side with CHO and Pulisic as the players that will fight for that position and Kai to fight for the false 9 and to play on the right side.

True, but he played at Leverkusen next to a true striker and it worked so it's not like it's impossible - I just think, and a lot of our matches we played this season imho showed that - the introduction of Lukaku bears a lot of adaptations which aren't done yet (no surprise). I also agree about the rest, I'd play Werner - Lukaku - Mount as my starters for now with Havertz having the odd role.. although I do think that him starting instead of Lukaku shouldn't be ruled out as an option - as much as I liked Lukaku so far - and not just to rest the big guy.

Once Pulisic comes back into the mix, let's see about CHO and eventually Ziyech coming back in style it'll be a brutal fight for the starting positions. Hard to keep em all happy - even with the sheer amount of games we face.

I dont remember anyone posting that we should sell him so i dont get why people are mentioning that. When Havertz doesn't play well their seems to be a thousand excuses. When you pay the money we did and the hype that comes with him im expecting better than one good game and then 5 bad ones. If the results this season were poor he would be getting alot more criticism, he is lucky we are winning so people are more accepting of his poor performances.

 

On 06/10/2021 at 13:14, Bob stark said:

I really don't understand with this 343 is not good 433 is the way to go. Formation is not really the key, if you want excitement and I assume you want fast football like pool football then we need two more midfielder. 

 

I think I want more forward thinking players .. currently we only gave 3 plus wingbacks 

16 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

I dont remember anyone posting that we should sell him so i dont get why people are mentioning that. When Havertz doesn't play well their seems to be a thousand excuses. When you pay the money we did and the hype that comes with him im expecting better than one good game and then 5 bad ones. If the results this season were poor he would be getting alot more criticism, he is lucky we are winning so people are more accepting of his poor performances.

 

 Scoring the CL winning goal gives you a lot of leeway. When the club invests in a young player, this is just the growing pains we have to take. Young players are always inconsistent. 

If our results were poor, Kai wouldn't be blamed as much tbh. Lukaku would have been the one to be criticized. 

 

4 hours ago, Deino said:

 Scoring the CL winning goal gives you a lot of leeway. When the club invests in a young player, this is just the growing pains we have to take. Young players are always inconsistent. 

If our results were poor, Kai wouldn't be blamed as much tbh. Lukaku would have been the one to be criticized. 

 

He hasn't been inconsistent this season though, he's been rubbish. If Lukaku was scoring he wouldn't be blamed.

I get that young players are inconsistent, but there is a difference between being inconsistent and being really poor.

Why would we ever consider moving him on.  He needs game time, a consistent position and then must deliver.  Many of our attacking players have had a slow start to the season, and candidly looking for them all to offer a little more.