Listen.... All I'm gonna say is that if Kai Havertz was called Ross Barkley, he'd be relegated by the fans to the depths of 'never to start a game again'. The absolute SHOCKING thing about football these days is that if you paint a pretty 'European, generational, YouTube reeled, plays well in a very below-par league' picture of a player, the whole World drops to their knees. The guy is absolute karp and I mean no disrespect by that. I've played with boys in my time within football that piss all over him but sadly never got the luxury of playing on silk pitches with professional facilities and 200k a week to go with it; the joy of the Welsh FA grassroots system (at least one of them now plays for Hibs though, £10 if you get his name). 

 

He's had a HANDFUL of decent performances. Nothing ground-breaking or to suggest that he's going to be the next Zidane like some absolute wildcats have predicted in the media; mainly his former clubs CEO and affiliates to drive his price to an obscene level. I'm literally not even kidding you the same will happen to Haaland and Mbappe etc. if they ever decide to play in a league that can actually defend. We turn over boys from our academy for better performances and watch them put shifts in on loan which the lads we've spent £70m on could only dream of doing, Gallagher springs to mind. 

 

Again, no disrespect, he's just not cut out for playing week-in, week-out in a grown-ups league. 

25 minutes ago, RMCM said:

I feel like Kai is an interesting one because he's clearly a very talented footballer, but my question is where should he be playing? At Leverkusen he was a roaming 10, reminds me a bit of Juan Mata in his time for us, but we can't really accommodate that type of player in the system we are playing at the moment. I want him to succeed here and I think he can, but at the minute his attributes are not effective for us, which leaves us with a dilemma. Personally I would love to see us go back to a 4-2-3-1 with Kai playing No. 10 and Werner and Mount either side of him, but TT clearly doesnt think our defenders are up to playing in a back 4, which is understandable. 

Playing just behind/off the striker in a 4-3-3 like Muller does. Kind of like an hybrid 10; not a creator but someone that arrives late in the box to finish chances. He  is a 15+ goal scorer in that role.

You will next to play a DM & a CM behind him to get the best out of him

Edited September 30, 20214 yr by ducavis

It was a bad night for the word 'generational', but otherwise I'm not too panicked. If I were to rank our candidates for the two starting spots behind Lukaku by degree of frustration caused (in descending order) I'm not sure Havertz would finish in the top half... 

18 minutes ago, RMCM said:

Lampard was tactically inept though, as much as I love him. Werner plays on the wing for us when he plays most of the time, not all wingers have to play hugging the touchline, narrow wingers and overlapping fullbacks are how Liverpool play and they're a bit more exciting to watch than us. 

That’s a fair point, however I still think the vast majority of the Chelsea squad is better suited to the 5 at the back, and  I’ve yet to see anything near enough from Havertz which warrants a complete overhaul to a system which may or may not bring the best out of him. 

 

 

A few on here have identified his best position imo.

Either start him in a Kaka role, a true number 10 off a striker, or don't use him at all. 

We are still playing as we did before Lukaku arrived. We have to evolve  or TT is done here. 

7 hours ago, thebluekid said:

Listen.... All I'm gonna say is that if Kai Havertz was called Ross Barkley, he'd be relegated by the fans to the depths of 'never to start a game again'. The absolute SHOCKING thing about football these days is that if you paint a pretty 'European, generational, YouTube reeled, plays well in a very below-par league' picture of a player, the whole World drops to their knees. The guy is absolute karp and I mean no disrespect by that. I've played with boys in my time within football that piss all over him but sadly never got the luxury of playing on silk pitches with professional facilities and 200k a week to go with it; the joy of the Welsh FA grassroots system (at least one of them now plays for Hibs though, £10 if you get his name). 

 

He's had a HANDFUL of decent performances. Nothing ground-breaking or to suggest that he's going to be the next Zidane like some absolute wildcats have predicted in the media; mainly his former clubs CEO and affiliates to drive his price to an obscene level. I'm literally not even kidding you the same will happen to Haaland and Mbappe etc. if they ever decide to play in a league that can actually defend. We turn over boys from our academy for better performances and watch them put shifts in on loan which the lads we've spent £70m on could only dream of doing, Gallagher springs to mind. 

 

Again, no disrespect, he's just not cut out for playing week-in, week-out in a grown-ups league. 

DOIDGEY!!! Get him up top, guaranteed goals!

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

A few on here have identified his best position imo.

Either start him in a Kaka role, a true number 10 off a striker, or don't use him at all. 

We are still playing as we did before Lukaku arrived. We have to evolve  or TT is done here. 

Either that, or as a false 9 where is still around that same area. He also played as some kind of an inside forward/RW in Leverkusen. But this thing where he starts on the left side is just silly, OGS gave all the freedom in the middle to Bruno Fenandes and he saved his job by doing that basic thing, yet we somehow need to try to re-invent the wheel always, just play a talented player where he has shown the most talent and magic will happen in due time!

As far as Peter Crouch is concerned, Kai has been lazy in his play, as lazy as Ozil:

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/16287855/crouch-chelsea-kai-havertz-mesut-ozil/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook300921&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1632998603

On 30/09/2021 at 08:33, axman2526 said:

A few on here have identified his best position imo.

Either start him in a Kaka role, a true number 10 off a striker, or don't use him at all. 

We are still playing as we did before Lukaku arrived. We have to evolve  or TT is done here. 

I'd say his best position is on the bench right now. He has been utter garbage of late.

He has dissapointed this season.

I expected/hoped he would kick on, and really go on to boss and dominate, but he has been lackluster in the extreme.

That said, I wouldnt give up. I would like to see a 4312, with Werner and Lukaku up front, and Kai in the 10.

Needs to take being benched, and looked over for Ross, as a rocket up the arse. 

Double down, stop fluffy flicks and back heels and start grabbing games by the scruff of the neck.

If Barkley is getting in ahead of him, you know he’s in trouble. 

On 30/09/2021 at 14:33, axman2526 said:

A few on here have identified his best position imo.

Either start him in a Kaka role, a true number 10 off a striker, or don't use him at all. 

We are still playing as we did before Lukaku arrived. We have to evolve  or TT is done here. 

Tuchel is our best asset

I trust him 100% to make changes when required. 

I actually thought he had a good start to the season, then the international break came and he went back to being the Havertz that struggled to make an impact. Those saying he is a waste of money are jumping the gun a bit, there is clearly talent in him, it just needs to be bought out of him consistently.

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

If Barkley is getting in ahead of him, you know he’s in trouble. 

Barkley looking better than him too.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

I actually thought he had a good start to the season, then the international break came and he went back to being the Havertz that struggled to make an impact. Those saying he is a waste of money are jumping the gun a bit, there is clearly talent in him, it just needs to be bought out of him consistently.

That sounds like Ross Barkley.

Is a statement.

TT made it to Werner by chosing Barkely ahead of him from tje bench against Juve as a poor display against City (yes everyone was poor)

What did Timo do, scored 2 goals (robbed of 1) and robbed himself of another but played very well.

Now Barkley comes on ahead of Kai and plays a key role in the important second goal.

Over to you Kai.

On 30/09/2021 at 18:18, EdinburghBlue said:

DOIDGEY!!! Get him up top, guaranteed goals!

Let me tell you mate he has worked his absolute bottle off to get where he is. Back in the days of brief stint when I was playing for Cwmbran Celtic in the year below at school… He was unbelievable. Back then was a centre mid. He moved on and got some games under his belt as a centre forward and never looked back. Just absolutely grafted his twat off. Never stopped trying. If he was in the English FA system it would never have taken him as long to go professional. Welsh FA is honking!!!!

He won’t have liked being kept on the bench yesterday but he’s never got a pass in him like that Barkley one yesterday. 
 

I’ll stand by opinion; he will never be good enough to be a star at this level in English football. Absolutely, for sure, if he heads back to a European league then he will thrive. The first thing he should be doing in his spare time is working on his strength and conditioning. If he managed that (akin to Ronaldo at United) he’s give himself a chance.

50 minutes ago, thebluekid said:

He won’t have liked being kept on the bench yesterday but he’s never got a pass in him like that Barkley one yesterday. 
 

I’ll stand by opinion; he will never be good enough to be a star at this level in English football. Absolutely, for sure, if he heads back to a European league then he will thrive. The first thing he should be doing in his spare time is working on his strength and conditioning. If he managed that (akin to Ronaldo at United) he’s give himself a chance.

This is a bit of a harsh criticism on a 22 year old. Which 22 year old burst on the scene and kept going on an upward trajectory throughout until he retires? 

This is the growing pains we and him have to endure

2 minutes ago, Deino said:

This is a bit of a harsh criticism on a 22 year old. Which 22 year old burst on the scene and kept going on an upward trajectory throughout until he retires? 

This is the growing pains we and him have to endure

Oh I don’t disagree it’s a bit harsh. However he’s been labelled ‘generational’, has cost £70m, we’ve chinned off younger lads to make way for him, he struts around without any urgency… in my opinion it’s all justified. 22, also, isn’t as young as it sounds when you’ve been in the game as a pro since a child. People need to support players, yes, however he’s too lazy to justify not criticising him harshly.

 

He’d be the water boy if he played under Sir Alex back when football was football.

7 minutes ago, thebluekid said:

Oh I don’t disagree it’s a bit harsh. However he’s been labelled ‘generational’, has cost £70m, we’ve chinned off younger lads to make way for him, he struts around without any urgency… in my opinion it’s all justified. 22, also, isn’t as young as it sounds when you’ve been in the game as a pro since a child. People need to support players, yes, however he’s too lazy to justify not criticising him harshly.

 

He’d be the water boy if he played under Sir Alex back when football was football.

I agree with you. It's just that I'd rather we stick with Kai and help him improve through this tough time rather than chucking him out in a year or two only for him to then mature as a superstar with another team. 

I'm sure I don't need to name anyone or remind anyone or that fact. 

2 minutes ago, Deino said:

I agree with you. It's just that I'd rather we stick with Kai and help him improve through this tough time rather than chucking him out in a year or two only for him to then mature as a superstar with another team. 

I'm sure I don't need to name anyone or remind anyone or that fact. 

Agree there. He needs to sort his f**king act out and start showing some belief because at the current rate he’s pushing himself out of the team.

6 hours ago, Deino said:

I agree with you. It's just that I'd rather we stick with Kai and help him improve through this tough time rather than chucking him out in a year or two only for him to then mature as a superstar with another team. 

I'm sure I don't need to name anyone or remind anyone or that fact. 

 

Kai had been given numerous chances and opportunities to show his worth and grow with this team, under both managers.

The "other guy" wasn't, if what I heard here was accurate.