5 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Play him in his position mate as one of two strikers/AM or false 9

But that's where he is playing but has yet to show any sort of consistency for us. 

He's got 25 appareances to his name this season scoring 5 and assisting 3. Of the 5 goals he's scored two have come in the League Cup with 2 goals in 16 appearances in the league. 

A strike rate of 1 goal every 8 games just isn't good enough for a player we valued at £75m. Yes he's had Covid and injuries etc. but even taking all of that into account we really should be seeing a lot more from him at this point. 

17 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

we really should be seeing a lot more from him at this point. 

Before we see more from him, we need to see more of him.

1 hour ago, coco said:

Before we see more from him, we need to see more of him.

70 appearances for Chelsea to date, I think that's enough to start drawing some conclusions about what he's offered us over the last 18 months.

5 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

70 appearances for Chelsea to date, I think that's enough to start drawing some conclusions about what he's offered us over the last 18 months.

A lot of Chelsea fans have concluded, they want Havertz playing.

43 minutes ago, coco said:

A lot of Chelsea fans have concluded, they want Havertz playing.

Aye we do, certainly myself and @Gol15 do. 

So make it happen Might Mod @coco !

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

That's the winner for the "most pointless chart of the year" award for sure !  I'm surprised they left off the goal keeper position LOL

Edited January 31, 20224 yr by Sexyfootball

53 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

That's the winner for the "most pointless chart of the year" award for sure !  I'm surprised they left off the goal keeper position LOL

@Gol15 really is losing his touch isn’t he!

2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

@Gol15 really is losing his touch isn’t he!

My charts have a higher standard than that!

9 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

But that's where he is playing but has yet to show any sort of consistency for us. 

He's got 25 appareances to his name this season scoring 5 and assisting 3. Of the 5 goals he's scored two have come in the League Cup with 2 goals in 16 appearances in the league. 

A strike rate of 1 goal every 8 games just isn't good enough for a player we valued at £75m. Yes he's had Covid and injuries etc. but even taking all of that into account we really should be seeing a lot more from him at this point. 

Playing St and CAM in a back 3 and 4 are very different, Kai needs more forwards to utilise his best skill set which is linking play, creating/playmaking and finishing off team moves which requires having more creative players like himself on the pitch

22 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Kai has been playing a lot of games as am under Tuchel maybe not single 10 but more of double 10. Maybe it is not perfect but pretty much all of our attacker hasn't played their natural role.

My assesement about Havertz hasn't changed since last year, he is a jack of all trade master of none. The only thing that is in his favor is his age, but it is ticking.

To be honest in his primary position he's supposed to be the jack of all trades as the AM. As a 21-22 year old he has shown that he can read the game very well and he can score in different ways and also pass the ball well so that is a positive in his case, it's not like he's a winger that can just run, he has a lot of skill and he's a taller player too. Other teams have patience for their younger talents and give them years to develop before actually demanding that they start winning them things, look at G.Jesus in Man City or Rashford in Man United for example.

Also which other player managed to be in the starting lineup in the CL final and score the winning goal being around 21 years old, Messi?

I'm not going to undermine a player just because he had a tough time, it was clear for everyone that Kai is a special player and I'm happy he's in our club, I thought that it was our best signing that will give us a lot in the future but it already gave us a CL title.

3 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Playing St and CAM in a back 3 and 4 are very different, Kai needs more forwards to utilise his best skill set which is linking play, creating/playmaking and finishing off team moves which requires having more creative players like himself on the pitch

Defo agreed. I think that is why likes of Liverpool and City's attackers always have good stats goal wise. Jota, I am sure if he came here would be struggling same way likes of Havertz and co are to score goals. Diaz I have no doubt will settle in fine, where if he was here he would be struggling for goal numbers. No coincidence that nearly all our attackers goal stats are low. I think Havertz does need to improve but yes I always say that for our attackers, they would flourish much more in a 4-2-3-1 formation over time.

Think the formation is a poor excuse. He and our other attackers still receive the ball in dangerous areas and still squander so many chances.

9 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

which requires having more creative players like himself on the pitch

I'm sorry but what creativity?

We all expected him to be this creative machine but he's played a lot of games for us now and I think i'm yet to see one great pass from him. Neither under Lampards gung ho attack or with Tuchel's more measured approach. I think it's fair to say he's just not very creative at all.

5 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Think the formation is a poor excuse. He and our other attackers still receive the ball in dangerous areas and still squander so many chances.

This is a myth though; we don’t create enough big chances as the formation is reliant on WBs for our creativity, so the forwards aren’t missing many chances.

Havertz with 5 big chances missed is the 18th player and highest Chelsea player. 
 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_missed

39 minutes ago, ducavis said:

This is a myth though; we don’t create enough big chances as the formation is reliant on WBs for our creativity, so the forwards aren’t missing many chances.

Havertz with 5 big chances missed is the 18th player and highest Chelsea player. 
 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_missed

Could you not make an argument that the attacking players aren't taking on enough personal responcibility and that's why "big chances" don't come their way? 

Also you've got to remember that the forwards are constantly being rotated. Salah and Jota top that list and have had 1783 and 1552 minutes respectively whilst, with the exception of Mason Mount, all of our other attacker are 1000 minutes and under. 

There's not enough consistency with our attacking selections for any of our players to be particularly notworthy this seaosn. 

Mount is aggressive enough to cut inside and to go forward as much as possible but not everyone can make that move specially when our full-backs are encouraged to do so as well, the person in the middle, in this case Kai is tactically marked out so that Chilwell/James can cut inside and whoever is around him.

Obviously Kai needs more end product, but in this tactic nobody is particularly shining in attack, Lukaku managed to be consistent for 2 games in a row at best I think and he's more clinical than anyone else but not even him is managing to find space and to make moves.

On 01/02/2022 at 09:18, Gol15 said:

To be honest in his primary position he's supposed to be the jack of all trades as the AM. As a 21-22 year old he has shown that he can read the game very well and he can score in different ways and also pass the ball well so that is a positive in his case, it's not like he's a winger that can just run, he has a lot of skill and he's a taller player too. Other teams have patience for their younger talents and give them years to develop before actually demanding that they start winning them things, look at G.Jesus in Man City or Rashford in Man United for example.

Also which other player managed to be in the starting lineup in the CL final and score the winning goal being around 21 years old, Messi?

I'm not going to undermine a player just because he had a tough time, it was clear for everyone that Kai is a special player and I'm happy he's in our club, I thought that it was our best signing that will give us a lot in the future but it already gave us a CL title.

Here is the story with Kai. He is maybe this super talented player but so far all I see is a jack of all trade player master of none.

 

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Here is the story with Kai. He is maybe this super talented player but so far all I see is a jack of all trade player master of none.

 

I think he is better at holding the ball up than Lukaku, just wonder if he has long COV-ID or bad reaction to a vaccine as would have expected him to come on as a sub.

 

What most can see is:

-big frame with too little muscle

-admirable shooting skills

-great vision

-intelligent runs

If he manages to string all that together he will be a brilliant player. He just needs to play as he is a young player.

Mount is much more versatile. He can make himself useful in many ways. Havertz is not crafty enough..

 

I don't think Havertz has a good shot yet can finish 1 v 1 with the keeper and can also score with his head from crosses.

Lukaku is better shoulder to shoulder with a defender and has a better shot.

Not sure who is the better header yet Havertz is better with headed knocks-ons than Lukaku.

Havertz has the better first touch.

When you consider how much he costs and the hype that came with him he is one of the most over rated players ive seen for Chelsea. Still have no idea what his best position is either.

If we play 433 for the remainder of the season and use it for next he needs to show something now. If he is going to be a striker then he needs to worry about Broja coming back. If he is going to be an 8 then he needs to worry about Gallagher coming back too. Right now i'd start both of those over him.

 

From a defenders perspective most center backs would rather defend against Lukaku, he is stronger than Havertz, but don't be fooled into thinking Kai is a featherweight, he's a tough player. The extra strength Lukaku has, does not count for anything, he's not making his strength count, defenders are keeping themselves between him and the ball and he fails to get goal side, Havertz is the opposite, he does get between the defender and the ball becasue he's always moving, defenders hate too much movement. Havertz would be brilliant at City.

 

14 hours ago, strider6004 said:

I think he is better at holding the ball up than Lukaku, just wonder if he has long COV-ID or bad reaction to a vaccine as would have expected him to come on as a sub.

 

It is not even close imo. Lukaku holding is not good but Havertz is far worse. I have praised Havertz for his willingness to duel against cb but that is just sad, clearly he is not good at it. 

 

 

12 hours ago, coco said:

Havertz is the opposite, he does get between the defender and the ball becasue he's always moving, defenders hate too much movement. Havertz would be brilliant at City.

 

Pep's team is one of the most structured team in the world where he want his player to move very little when his team is on the ball.

If you constantly move, you will be sent to the back of the line by pep.

 

He gets a lot of flack but he is our most clutch player at the moment.