A bit feeble in the tackle ? Zero fouls against WHU was a bit of a clue. Yesterday Everton 3 yellows to our zero tells you basically how it went, they fought harder.

Players like Pulisic, Mount, Jorginho, Willian, Kovacic, Kante, James, Emerson, all seem to be a bit easy to outweigh and push off the ball.

I dont think Kovacic, Kante and James are easy to push off the ball, they are pretty strong. The rest though, yeah you are correct.

Yes. Would take Willian off the list, as well as those other three, as he tends to hold his own. The good news is Lampard recognises it and acknowledged it in the presser yesterday. Can he fix it is the question? I expect it’s going to be a key focus and a priority in the transfer market.

35 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

I dont think Kovacic, Kante and James are easy to push off the ball, they are pretty strong. The rest though, yeah you are correct.

I think it's a bit of a myth that Kante holds his own personally (compared to the likes of Aranguiz). Watching the MOTD analysis last night even Kova looked a light touch at times.

Jesus, another negatively themed topic.  Joy.

3 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Jesus, another negatively themed topic.  Joy.

That's what happens when we hit the Nov blip, Lampard talked about it so its not really negative, i cant remember us ever going a whole game without fouling anyone before. Frank was Mr nice when he played, but we don't need 11 Mr nice guys on the pitch.

Yes to nice with a lack of steel,we have been spoilt over the years,I felt we started lacking that when we got players like mata and oscar.

1 hour ago, coco said:

That's what happens when we hit the Nov blip, Lampard talked about it so its not really negative, i cant remember us ever going a whole game without fouling anyone before. Frank was Mr nice when he played, but we don't need 11 Mr nice guys on the pitch.

Which is something all of us expected, a blip.  The overwhelming majority of the forum and fan base expected us to miss out on the top 4.  We are currently 5 points clear of 5th and at worst, will be 3 clear.  Nobody expected us to be in the position we are in.  We’ll bounce back and be fine.

I just find it funny that so many posters are so focused on the negative, when the positive far outweighs it (and it’s not close).  Somebody even went as far as to say the pressure is mounting on Lampard, job status wise.  Give me a f**king break.

You mention Everton fought harder.  Probably true.  And that’s where I think it comes off negatively.  But actually, I think most would agree that the fight that this team shows is one of its strengths.  It hasn’t always ended in the results that we want, but these young guys love the club and I think it shows.

Some may mention that if our fight is a strength, then why haven’t we won a single point coming from behind?  Honestly I think that just boils down to poor finishing, which I would be surprised if it was a continuing problem going forward.

Edited December 8, 20196 yr by mwblue10

27 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

I just find it funny that so many posters are so focused on the negative, when the positive far outweighs it

It's just discussing ways we could improve, which involves talking about the negatives.

Yeah I'm getting a bit of Arsenal vibes from this team, crap leadership and not very good organisation, sometimes we are very soft. 

But it could very well be like Liverpool, Liverpool got a new defence and they changed drastically, it could be the same for us. 

Fit in Rudiger and Ruben and you got some muscle. Zouma is no pushover either. Kante, Tammy and Kovacic are pretty athletic also. Pulisic and Mount are pretty lightweight.

If you look at Liverpool and City neither have particularly big team. What we lack probably is height in the team but again Rudiger and Ruben will help us there.

It's become a zero contact sport. I mean absolutely ZERO contact, it's beyond pathetic. Also, whenever our players do go heavy into tackles we'll start seeing red cards. 

It's become a zero contact sport. I mean absolutely ZERO contact, it's beyond pathetic. Also, whenever our players do go heavy into tackles we'll start seeing red cards. 

I don't completely agree with this. Situations where we put a long ball to Tammy he needs to fight off the opponent. Same goes to corners and freekicks. Size and strenght is still a big factor.

What we see much less are sliding tackles. They cause most injuries I would think. Also a manager like Pep who is a trailblazer in many ways publically stated his teams won't tackle. This makes other skilled teams like ours want to play with zero tackles.

Wheter it is good or not is up to everyone to decide. A beautiful tackle is a beautiful thing.

Its not negative to talk about where we can improve and to an extent I agree with the OP.

When I think back to players like Essien, Frank, Ballack and Mikel we had some real steel in the middle of the team. The squad seems to lack that and we can't complete for strength against the physically bigger teams. We need to get RLC back but I'm getting a bit worried after hearing Frank say he has had a couple of set backs in training. I like what RLC brought to the team in the second half of last season but he seems to be injured for long periods and for this reason only, unreliable. Maybe James can help out but his future is probably at right back.

Kante is small but does "punch" above his weight whereas Jorge is a light weight. Jorge is an enigma for me. His distribution is good and he keeps the team ticking but he does lose possession every now and then. We need someone who can compete physically. I think Kovacic has it in him but his forward runs are more important. I just think with Kante, Jorge and Mount in midfield we are a bit lightweight against bigger players. We need a big guy to fight back and lean into the opposition. Its OK if you can pass round teams but if a 4-4-2 can out muscle us we have a problem and need to address that. Other teams are watching this and will learn.

Is this a role Ethan Ampadu could fulfil? Is Barclay an option?

We are a work in progress and Frank will have to find a solution to what appears to be a new problem. West Ham and now Everton have outmuscled us so lets man up and compete physically in the middle.

If we can buy someone all well and good but for me Centre half is a priority in the market. I don't think there's any getting away from it we have a lot of small players.

 

On MOTD Shearer pointed out a few times when Everton players rushed out of their half to chase the ball and running full pelt into Christensen and another??, sending them flying off the pitch, clear fouls, not given, and glorified as legal thuggery by Shearer. Duncan Ferguson will be happy I'm sure.

Yesterday Rangers and Celtic were mowing down players like no tomorrow, i know its the OFD, but still, it highlighted how feeble we have looked recently.

City are suffering from the same problem at the moment.

 

Like it or not, this is why the English league is challenging, because despite VAR or whatever else, on any given Saturday a referee will just let the game go on, and allow the Burnley or Stoke like to rip into the other teams. It's a challenge this young team couldn't handle, like few other challenges been thrown at them this season. The catalyst on Saturday was we weren't ready for the game, concede that early goal and all the sudden Everton could play from the front for once in the season. Back in the Jose days, we had fair share of physical players, I'm all for a big scary central defender, not sure I'd put physic ahead of technical attributes for the more advanced positions on the field.

I agree we need to be stronger, the lack of tackles we make is worrying and I hate the half hearted tackles. I understand it to a certain degree though. Teams lower down the table tend to get away with things a lot more than the teams at the top. There are many times we see players from mid table and lower teams make a ton of fouls, never get carded and then one of ours commits a foul and is booked straight away. 

I like Jorginho's approach. He seems to have learned the importance of being physical in this league since the start of the season, he's not afraid of picking up a yellow card either.

Frank spoke about this problem in his press conference today. He said we lost too many "contact" moments against Everton. I was hoping he would use the term Larry Lightweight.

 

Rudiger's back tomorrow, which should help us a bit.

Bring back Wisey & Morris is the middle...

46 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Bring back Wisey & Morris is the middle...

Or Vinny Jones, might have been useful against the Toffees.

There is nothing worse than seeing your team get bullied as we were on Saturday. Nothing worse. I don't mind losing, well obviously I do, but losing is part of football, without losing the wins wouldn't feel so good. Being bullied however is a totally different thing. They wanted it more than we did, they were prepared to get their hands dirty and fight, and we didn't fancy it, simple as that, and that's unacceptable. In all my days watching Chelsea that hasn't happened often, thankfully. No matter how bad we've been at times in our past, Chelsea teams traditionally play with pride. We looked like your archetypal Southern softies side on Saturday, a Tottenham or an Arsenal or a Fulham or a West Ham. It's not something I associate with Chelsea and it has to stop. The first thing you have to do in the Prem is compete. We deserved nothing and no wonder Frank looked pretty livid. If he's got anything about him he won't tolerate it. If I had to single out anyone it would be Christensen. He didn't know what had hit him. He just didn't want to be out there. Their CF will never get an easier game in his life. If Christensen gets another game this season he can consider himself extremely lucky. That is just not what you want from your centre-half.

There is a lack of an awareness when it comes to commiting to a defensive task and making a tactical foul, both in defense and in midfield. That being said, the player that has enough credit to not even be mentioned when talking about this topic is Kante. I don't care that he had a semi-bad game against Everton, he is not lightweight. Very silly that his name is there with the rest IMO.

Some players need to be instructed how to play, the centre backs specially but also the whole squad as a defensive unit. James for example is strong but doesn't use his body in defensive tasks and misses to follow and mark his area or player. Emerson lets crosses happen very easy. Jorginho loses a 50/50 ball too easy. Kovacic doesn't even bother to play defense in his area, it looks like he isn't there. Mount is pushed aside every game and is dealt with ease in general, fact is he had a good 35-40 min against Villa, while all other minutes in the last few games it was hard to notice he was on the pitch.

All this sounds a bit harsh but it's not far from the experience that most fans had watching the team, last season we could have the ball possession for a whole hour but the 5 minutes we didn't have the ball it was enough for some teams to score against us, someone needs to commit a tactical foul when it's needed.

Edited December 10, 20196 yr by Gol15

I've always been someone who enjoys watching the physicality in football as much as the fancy stuff, which is why I was so fond of the old midfield of Essien, Ballack, Lampard... I've been saying it for a while. They do try... Jorginho, kovacic, they've got a lot better, but the lack of physicality and height combined means the team loses that dimension. It's worst when you see set pieces and how opposition teams tower over must of the Chelsea players. 

Obviously that small frame and nimbleness and better technique helps in other ways (as well with the pressing in theory) but I always prefer to see the team have players who can 'bully' oppponents or at least hold their own. 

It's also another reason I like Loftus Cheek so much and really want to see him become a permanent fixture in the side. 

Pulisic i feel gets a bit of a pass, since he is new to the Prem. However, with it being December, I would hope that he would be prepared for the physicality of the league at this point. I feel he will only adapt more and more as the season progresses. At least, I hope he does

16 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

There is nothing worse than seeing your team get bullied as we were on Saturday. Nothing worse. I don't mind losing, well obviously I do, but losing is part of football, without losing the wins wouldn't feel so good. Being bullied however is a totally different thing. They wanted it more than we did, they were prepared to get their hands dirty and fight, and we didn't fancy it, simple as that, and that's unacceptable. In all my days watching Chelsea that hasn't happened often, thankfully. No matter how bad we've been at times in our past, Chelsea teams traditionally play with pride. We looked like your archetypal Southern softies side on Saturday, a Tottenham or an Arsenal or a Fulham or a West Ham. It's not something I associate with Chelsea and it has to stop. The first thing you have to do in the Prem is compete. We deserved nothing and no wonder Frank looked pretty livid. If he's got anything about him he won't tolerate it. If I had to single out anyone it would be Christensen. He didn't know what had hit him. He just didn't want to be out there. Their CF will never get an easier game in his life. If Christensen gets another game this season he can consider himself extremely lucky. That is just not what you want from your centre-half.

I have a soft spot for him but Zouma in particular had a shocker. That pairing has to not start again this season.