7 minutes ago, Argo said:

Is it me or are the way games are going for us these days pretty easy to call based on how we start?

Under Sarri, Lampard and now Tuchel after about ten minutes I seem to either be pretty relaxed (because I'm confident we'll find a way to win) or pretty tense (because I feel a slog fest of a game coming on) and rarely have my early instincts failed me under any of them.

I think that's just you.

But I can't say I'm not jealous of your psychic abilities. And I bet Tuchel feels the same way

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

Is it me or are the way games are going for us these days pretty easy to call based on how we....

I was just thinking that against Leeds. We don’t seem to have any real game changing players like we once had, other than possibly Giroud to an extent. Plus a manager that doesn’t really know how to turn a game around since Conte.

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

I think the given the way this season has gone, the board will be content with 4th and look to build next season. CL is always crucial   .I don’t see us catching Leicester or United. 

I don't think it is 4th place so much as qualification for the Champions League that the board expects. While 4th should secure that spot there are certain scenarios where it wouldn't be enough. For example if Liverpool were to win the Champions League and Arsenal ( or even Spurs) the Europa League and both teams finish outside top 4, then only top 3 qualify by league position. There cannot be more than 5 teams in the Champions League from 1 country.

While that scenario seems relatively unlikely it is not impossible. Liverpool are already in the QF or the Champions League and seem to be resting all of their hopes on that competition for the rest of the season. The Europa League looks pretty weak this season too.

1 hour ago, Imran_CFC said:

I personally think he needs to pick a preferred front 3 and give them some consistent run of games and the others push for their place off the bench, the persistent changing of the front line cannot be helping the attacking players in building any sort of chemistry between them.

My preferred front 3 would be Werner, Kai and Mount.

That could look like this in a back 3 formation:

                               Werner 

                    Mount            Havertz

Alonso/Chilwell  Kovacic  Jorginho  CHO/James                     

Tammy as a sub for Werner and Pulisic for Mount.

I think depending on the team we're facing Werner and Havertz are interchangeable through the middle. I would also like to see Pulisic start from left attacking spot at least once against one of the lower teams. I get why TT plays him on the right but most of his success in a Chelsea shirt has been from the left so why not try it out Tommy.

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

That could look like this in a back 3 formation:

                               Werner 

                    Mount            Havertz

Alonso/Chilwell  Kovacic  Jorginho  CHO/James                     

Tammy as a sub for Werner and Pulisic for Mount.

 

21 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I don't think it is 4th place so much as qualification for the Champions League that the board expects. While 4th should secure that spot there are certain scenarios where it wouldn't be enough. For example if Liverpool were to win the Champions League and Arsenal ( or even Spurs) the Europa League and both teams finish outside top 4, then only top 3 qualify by league position. There cannot be more than 5 teams in the Champions League from 1 country.

While that scenario seems relatively unlikely it is not impossible. Liverpool are already in the QF or the Champions League and seem to be resting all of their hopes on that competition for the rest of the season. The Europa League looks pretty weak this season too.

Am I right in thinking that if Liverpool win the CL and then Arsenal/Spurs win the EL, we would be out? We would need BOTH?

1 minute ago, JM7 said:

Am I right in thinking that if Liverpool win the CL and then Arsenal/Spurs win the EL, we would be out? We would need BOTH?

Yeah if they both win the European cups we would be out assuming we finish 4th. The odds are said to be 40/1 for that to happen. I think an english team winning Europa is more likely, Liverpool I would never count out despite their recent form if they go into the semis VVD could be match fit by then and then its a whole different ball game.

Yes, you cant have more than 5 clubs from one country. It would be TOP 3 and EL winner + CL winner. Means that 4th team would go to Europa League.

1 minute ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Yeah if they both win the European cups we would be out assuming we finish 4th. The odds are said to be 40/1 for that to happen. I think an english team winning Europa is more likely, Liverpool I would never count out despite their recent form if they go into the semis VVD could be match fit by then and then its a whole different ball game.

Yeah to be fair, they looked decent in the CL last week but I think they would likely have to beat City or Bayern to win it. 

3 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I think depending on the team we're facing Werner and Havertz are interchangeable through the middle. I would also like to see Pulisic start from left attacking spot at least once against one of the lower teams. I get why TT plays him on the right but most of his success in a Chelsea shirt has been from the left so why not try it out Tommy.

 

I believe Tuchel is using the current system as a quick fix until the end of the season, he has seen the backline is well suited to the wingback system and in the forward areas the formation suits the likes of Werner & Kai. The width in this setup comes from the wingback's and the problem for Pulisic is that he is neither a wingback or an inside forward, he can operate in the system but he will not reach the heights of last season within this system. 

His limited time is mainly due to Werner being a superior left sided forward and all the other WB's are better in their respective areas too, I dont believe Tuchel wants to play a wingback combination of Pulsic on one side and CHO/James on the other because that genuinely leaves us short defensively hence why he was preferred on the right as opposed to the left on the weekend.

I believe next season Tuchel may be a little more flexible in the formations he plays which may involve genuine wingers in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 and that will hopefully help Pulisic get back to the standards he set at the back end of last season.

Based on the clubs expectation of top 4 being nothing to celebrate, you can understand why Frank was under pressure. Especially if they wanted to close the gap to 1st. 
 

We have definitely dropped a level the last 5/6 years. We used to be elite but we’re no longer pushing. We haven’t been favourites for the CL or league for many years. 

2 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Based on the clubs expectation of top 4 being nothing to celebrate, you can understand why Frank was under pressure. Especially if they wanted to close the gap to 1st. 
 

We have definitely dropped a level the last 5/6 years. We used to be elite but we’re no longer pushing. We haven’t been favourites for the CL or league for many years. 

We have had one decent run in the Champions League since we won it. We have definitely dropped down a level in recent years, and I think it was something that was avoidable. The last decade has basically been one step forward and two steps back.

16 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Based on the clubs expectation of top 4 being nothing to celebrate, you can understand why Frank was under pressure. Especially if they wanted to close the gap to 1st. 
 

We have definitely dropped a level the last 5/6 years. We used to be elite but we’re no longer pushing. We haven’t been favourites for the CL or league for many years. 

It's partly due to the constant changing of managers, I know people say Conte was still backed to an extent and I agree. But, surely there had to be better options that who we signed in the summer of 2018 and to an extent with Mourinho in 2015.

The old clique always goes buy when you're at the top of your game not when you're chasing the pack. For some teams like Liverpool the latter strategy has worked but we had elite managers and failed to reinforce title winning teams with further elite players.

I can't be too hard on the board because generally we do well but, it has been including this one 4 seasons since we last competed for the league and 7 since we reaches the semis of the UCL. When we won those titles (14/15 & 16/17) we had good squads but I would argue not truly elite aside from a handful of individuals I place a large emphasis on the coaches and I think by not backing them we set them up to fail.

We backed Lamps it didn't work out but I don't think we are too far off. If Tuchel is as good as a lot of us are starting to think he is, I would place my eggs in his basket for the next 3 years.

To go back to my original point, it is success that fuels further success down the road. I would argue as heartbreaking as it was to lose the ucl 08 to utd it was for the best because we may not have won it in 2012. If we had not been the UCL winners I think there is reason to believe Hazard may not have signed for us. He in his mind wanted to take the next step in his career and thus with all the teams clamouring for his signature he chose the best team in the world.

Edited March 15, 20215 yr by LongtimerLurker

15 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Yeah to be fair, they looked decent in the CL last week but I think they would likely have to beat City or Bayern to win it. 

Yes. It seems unlikely based on the players out through injuries. But I think the odds of 40-1 are perhaps generous too. Liverpool would only have to get past 3 more teams to win the whole thing. In the Europa I'd say the best team left in the competition is probably United, and they have a tricky match in Milan. If they go out the odds on one of the North London teams winning it will increase significantly.

18 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

We have had one decent run in the Champions League since we won it. We have definitely dropped down a level in recent years, and I think it was something that was avoidable. The last decade has basically been one step forward and two steps back.

IMO our last truly great team was our itle winning team under 2nd Mou spell.

The rest are just ok. It is difficult to be good in cl this days unless you have a very good team or you are just very lucky 

Edited March 16, 20215 yr by Bob stark

On 15/03/2021 at 13:12, Luiz4Chelsea said:

I think that's just you.

But I can't say I'm not jealous of your psychic abilities. And I bet Tuchel feels the same way

I'm fairly sure Tuchel can read a game a lot better than I can, hence why he was relaxed against Everton but anxious early on against Leeds.

But what I mean is how we start seems to offer a clear blueprint as to how the games going to go, I can't recall many times we've had a dodgy/nervous start that quickly changed into a comfortable win, likewise when we start with purpose it usually ends up being a comfortable game. For me atleast it's been like that with Sarri, Lampard and now TT.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm fairly sure Tuchel can read a game a lot better than I can, hence why he was relaxed against Everton but anxious early on against Leeds.

But what I mean is how we start seems to offer a clear blueprint as to how the games going to go, I can't recall many times we've had a dodgy/nervous start that quickly changed into a comfortable win, likewise when we start with purpose it usually ends up being a comfortable game. For me atleast it's been like that with Sarri, Lampard and now TT.

I don't know my experience is quite different from that, even with our latest game against Leeds. The game started out with good intensity (on both sides actually) which then faded, rather frustratingly. The other day saw someone describe our first leg against Leeds one of our best performances this season, now that game certainly had a very dodgy/nervous start to it. In fact it started out quite similarly to our first leg against Everton, but against Leeds we turned up whereas against Everton our frustration kept growing (with lots of woodwork involved). Last week against Everton I found the first 20 mins pretty complacent before improving majorly, kind of the opposite of the Leeds game. The same pattern was even more blatant in our 2-1 against Sheffield, which didn't look like we were gonna win for most of the first half. And our start against Atletico I would definitely describe as dodgy/nervous, before the team settled into it.

It may have been a bit different with Frank (more start to finish performances then), but under Tuchel I actually never know for sure where we're headed after 10 mins. It greatly depends on whether we manage to squeeze out that first half goal - like we do most of the time - or not. Only thing I know is that we're not gonna concede, obviously.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

I'm fairly sure Tuchel can read a game a lot better than I can, hence why he was relaxed against Everton but anxious early on against Leeds.

But what I mean is how we start seems to offer a clear blueprint as to how the games going to go, I can't recall many times we've had a dodgy/nervous start that quickly changed into a comfortable win, likewise when we start with purpose it usually ends up being a comfortable game. For me atleast it's been like that with Sarri, Lampard and now TT.

Not sure about Lampard and Tuchel but this was my experience when Sarri was here - most of the time in Sarri's system we would either start the game well with at least a goal in the first half or we would struggle to score throughout the whole game.

I think it's time that we give a manager some time to build up the way we play, if we finish top 4 and Tuchel stays he really needs a good pre-season with the squad, so far he pretty much didn't have the time to work on any real tactic, the only thing he could do was to focus on making our defense more tight and that was a really smart move.

I've never enjoyed watching press conferences this much

 

3 hours ago, Argo said:

I'm fairly sure Tuchel can read a game a lot better than I can, hence why he was relaxed against Everton but anxious early on against Leeds.

But what I mean is how we start seems to offer a clear blueprint as to how the games going to go, I can't recall many times we've had a dodgy/nervous start that quickly changed into a comfortable win, likewise when we start with purpose it usually ends up being a comfortable game. For me atleast it's been like that with Sarri, Lampard and now TT.

I don't think it applied to Lampard's first season, we usually started incredibly well in the first half and eventually ran out of steam and by the end we seemed to be hanging on. Games such as Sheffield United at Home, Leicester at Home, Watford away, United Home and Away were all games we dominated in the first half and due to inexperience and maybe lack of fitness weren't able to build on from the first half performances.

40 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I don't think it applied to Lampard's first season, we usually started incredibly well in the first half and eventually ran out of steam and by the end we seemed to be hanging on. Games such as Sheffield United at Home, Leicester at Home, Watford away, United Home and Away were all games we dominated in the first half and due to inexperience and maybe lack of fitness weren't able to build on from the first half performances.

Fair enough with Leicester at home and United at home but I don't really agree with the others.

Sheffield United despite going 2 up I thought we were awful and I feared dropped points the second they got a goal back, United away I classed as a good performance despite the score and away at Watford I thought we were absolutely sensational until that unjust penalty set a bit of late panic in, a fair score there would have been about 0-5.

11 minutes ago, Argo said:

Fair enough with Leicester at home and United at home but I don't really agree with the others.

Sheffield United despite going 2 up I thought we were awful and I feared dropped points the second they got a goal back, United away I classed as a good performance despite the score and away at Watford I thought we were absolutely sensational until that unjust penalty set a bit of late panic in, a fair score there would have been about 0-5.

Those were just some examples off the top of my head but I remember last season we always had good spells in games whether it was 20 or 30 minutes and looked absolutely incredible but eventually things got tough.

In my view it was down to being an incredibly young and inexperienced team, under Tuchel & Sarri I agree our performances can be gaged as soon as we kick off but last season our performances in games were hugely volatile, we would have moments where we looked untouchable and in the same game appear like the team has never played together before.

Game day! Time to see what Mr Tuchel can do, tbh I forgot what it feels like to really be in the champions league.The group stage is cool and everything but the knockout is just something completely different.

It would be nice to actually go deep in the competition again. Winning it is great but, it's also nice just competeing against some of the best teams in the world. If we do go through and assuming Bayern are through as well, the quarters are absolutely stacked. 

It will be interesting how TT approaches this game. On the one hand there is a sense of almost he has to play Giroud since he's been the difference maker in the tie so far.

However, the recent two games have seen him use Kai as a false 9. This is good because now Diego and Athletico won't know for certain what we will use. Not to mention the possibility of Werner through the middle. 

There is a chance all 3 start up front together and that would be an interesting choice. Pace will definitely be need up top if Athletico do plan to attack and one way or the other they will have to at some point.

Callum and Christian are definitely possibilities as well either up top or on the wing. Honestly credit to Tom for what he's done. Sure the attack may not be up to speed and we are yet to play a consistent pairing. But, for competitions like the champions league having a large squad and diverse system may not be so bad after all. Unpredictability.

This Tuchel guy seems to know what he's doing.

Wonderful performance tonight. Completely dominated the best team in La Liga.

 

Doesn't matter what team he puts out, changes 5 or 6 players every game ... and we get better and better.

Impressive how he has got everyone on board and resurrected several careers of the "dead wood" ... capped tonight by a cracking goal from Emerson of all people.