Official Thomas Tuchel *Now Sacked*

[Liam]

24 minutes ago, Jezz said:

Fantastic. This really enhances the connection Tuchel will have with the club and the supporter base.

Mourinho, Conte and Lampard are also shareholders so he's in good company.

Didn't help the other three much.

[Argo]

They won four titles between them I don't think anyone will complain if Tuchel adds to that.

[Imran_CFC]

At the start of his tenure I mentioned that once he hits double figures in terms of games we can start to build a judgement on him as a Chelsea Manager and after 11 games I have to say that I have been hugely impressed. He has changed the structure of the team and provided a solid foundation based on some of our more experienced players and has opted to go with round pegs in round holes as opposed to trying to shoehorn players into positions where they may not quite be comfortable. Having 3 CB's helps in covering the defensive gap in our squad left by lack of natural CDM's as it allows us to play the combination of Jorginho and Kova who are arguably our best pairing when it comes to chemistry and complimenting each others style.

He has made 50+ changes in the 11 games he has been with us which tells me he still is looking for a settled team however his comments after the Everton game tells me that he may not have a settled starting 11 and look to take a more flexible approach when it comes to team selection even in the foreseeable future.

The only drawback I have seen so far is the way he treated CHO in the Southampton game and the way Tammy has been the scapegoat on a few occasions & Billy has not even been making the squad yet we can opt to have 3 LB's in a match day squad. I feel as though there are double standards when it comes to our youth team players and the way they are treated in comparison to the senior members. Having said that it may not be Tuchel but directions from the board to get the senior players involved in order to make them visible to the market as they will be looking to generate funds and trim the squad in the next transfer window.

Everything considered I would give Tuchel a 7/10 after the first 11 games.

[Backbiter]

5 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

At the start of his tenure I mentioned that once he hits double figures in terms of games we can start to build a judgement on him as a Chelsea Manager and after 11 games I have to say that I have been hugely impressed. He has changed the structure of the team and provided a solid foundation based on some of our more experienced players and has opted to go with round pegs in round holes as opposed to trying to shoehorn players into positions where they may not quite be comfortable. Having 3 CB's helps in covering the defensive gap in our squad left by lack of natural CDM's as it allows us to play the combination of Jorginho and Kova who are arguably our best pairing when it comes to chemistry and complimenting each others style.

He has made 50+ changes in the 11 games he has been with us which tells me he still is looking for a settled team however his comments after the Everton game tells me that he may not have a settled starting 11 and look to take a more flexible approach when it comes to team selection even in the foreseeable future.

The only drawback I have seen so far is the way he treated CHO in the Southampton game and the way Tammy has been the scapegoat on a few occasions & Billy has not even been making the squad yet we can opt to have 3 LB's in a match day squad. I feel as though there are double standards when it comes to our youth team players and the way they are treated in comparison to the senior members. Having said that it may not be Tuchel but directions from the board to get the senior players involved in order to make them visible to the market as they will be looking to generate funds and trim the squad in the next transfer window.

Everything considered I would give Tuchel a 7/10 after the first 11 games.

Agree with all your points. This looks to be a lot more than the traditional 'new manager bounce'.

Definitely better than a 7/10 for me. Would give him 8.5.

[jack_super_class]

10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think we were bad defensively under Lamp. A bit naive at times especially against big team, lamp prefer more movement which make your offense less predictable but harder to protect. 

Tuchel has instilled structure into offense which mean it is easier for us to press once we lose the ball, plus 32 at the back all the time mean we are safe against counter. 

The funny part is no one is talking about how bad our cb anymore. That is one of the craziest opinion, we don't have wc cb but all of our cb are good enough. 

Only Newcastle conceded more goals in the premier league than us under Lampard reign, seems pretty bad to me.

[dansubrosa]

I agree with your points Imran, especially on Gilmour.

He’s easily on the same level as Jorginho if not better, it makes a lot of sense to trust him and give him games ahead of Jorginho. He potentially can be much more effective and damn some of his passing were sublime. I remember that long ball he’s done after coming on as a substitute last season, the way he took the piss out of Fabinho, his inch perfect pass to Hudson Odoi in FA cup. Also him setting up an attack which resulted in a goal this season, I can’t remember what game it was.

You compare the minutes between Gilmour and Jorginho, I think it’s pretty clear who is more effective. That’s the only huge black spot on Tuchel for me, how can he not see the potential in Gilmour?

If Gilmour leaves because of game time then we have been let down by Tuchel massively imo. I really believe he’s going to be a world class midfielder one day. Like the time we were really let down by Mourinho for selling Mata. Urgh that still makes me angry, he was incredible here.

[RMH]

28 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I agree with your points Imran, especially on Gilmour.

He’s easily on the same level as Jorginho if not better, it makes a lot of sense to trust him and give him games ahead of Jorginho. He potentially can be much more effective and damn some of his passing were sublime. I remember that long ball he’s done after coming on as a substitute last season, the way he took the piss out of Fabinho, his inch perfect pass to Hudson Odoi in FA cup. Also him setting up an attack which resulted in a goal this season, I can’t remember what game it was.

You compare the minutes between Gilmour and Jorginho, I think it’s pretty clear who is more effective. That’s the only huge black spot on Tuchel for me, how can he not see the potential in Gilmour?

If Gilmour leaves because of game time then we have been let down by Tuchel massively imo. I really believe he’s going to be a world class midfielder one day. Like the time we were really let down by Mourinho for selling Mata. Urgh that still makes me angry, he was incredible here.

Barnsley in the FA Cup, I think. He assisted the goal and provided the pass a Tammy who was fouled inside the box.

[PloKoon13]

If anyone is curious, this is the league table since Tuchel was appointed:

I suppose a lot of the observations are fairly obvious:

- We're not scoring many at all, but our defensive record is exemplary.

- We're the only unbeaten side.

- Hahaha Liverpool

 

 

The Leeds game aside, our upcoming run of league fixtures are all against (taking a very basic view) sides who primarily set themselves up to be hard to beat. While our current setup has been ideal for facing higher-quality sides, some of the weaknesses we've shown might be more easily exploited by teams less inclined to open up for us. I will be very curious to see how Tuchel adapts the side to this.

[goose]

40 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

 

The Leeds game aside, our upcoming run of league fixtures are all against (taking a very basic view) sides who primarily set themselves up to be hard to beat. While our current setup has been ideal for facing higher-quality sides, some of the weaknesses we've shown might be more easily exploited by teams less inclined to open up for us. I will be very curious to see how Tuchel adapts the side to this.

This could be the 'real test' that people keep referring to. I knew it had to be coming soon!!!

I think this could be a stumbling block Plok but I have more confidence this past few matches that maybe we can create more and it's just a matter of our forwards hitting form.

We may have been excellent against Everton however our goals were an own goal and a penalty.

[The Don Antonio]

2 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I agree with your points Imran, especially on Gilmour.

He’s easily on the same level as Jorginho if not better, it makes a lot of sense to trust him and give him games ahead of Jorginho. He potentially can be much more effective and damn some of his passing were sublime. I remember that long ball he’s done after coming on as a substitute last season, the way he took the piss out of Fabinho, his inch perfect pass to Hudson Odoi in FA cup. Also him setting up an attack which resulted in a goal this season, I can’t remember what game it was.

You compare the minutes between Gilmour and Jorginho, I think it’s pretty clear who is more effective. That’s the only huge black spot on Tuchel for me, how can he not see the potential in Gilmour?

If Gilmour leaves because of game time then we have been let down by Tuchel massively imo. I really believe he’s going to be a world class midfielder one day. Like the time we were really let down by Mourinho for selling Mata. Urgh that still makes me angry, he was incredible here.

     It is a shame that most Chelsea fans dont appreciate Jorginho. I think it is blasphemous to say Gilmour is more effective than Jorginho.  Gilmour had 2 great games against Liverpool and Everton but his standards dropped during project restart ( Which is expected due to his age) and then got injured. He has a lot of potential and will definitely go on loan to a premiership team next season once we buy another central midfielder.  But as off today he is our 4th choice central midfielder and rightly so

[Dean]

3 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

     It is a shame that most Chelsea fans dont appreciate Jorginho. I think it is blasphemous to say Gilmour is more effective than Jorginho.  Gilmour had 2 great games against Liverpool and Everton but his standards dropped during project restart ( Which is expected due to his age) and then got injured. He has a lot of potential and will definitely go on loan to a premiership team next season once we buy another central midfielder.  But as off today he is our 4th choice central midfielder and rightly so

Agree. Gilmour hasn’t had anything like the exposure Jorginho has had so it’s easy to say/think he’d be better. The reality is, to reiterate your point, he’s a great prospect but not quite ready yet and not as good as Jorginho. If he were as good, the coach who (unlike us) watches all the players in training several days a week, meticulously tracking their performance and analysing every detail, would indeed give him more playing time. It’s not like he’s neglecting to select him out of spite.  

Edited March 10, 2021 by Dean

[Imran_CFC]

3 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

     It is a shame that most Chelsea fans dont appreciate Jorginho. I think it is blasphemous to say Gilmour is more effective than Jorginho.  Gilmour had 2 great games against Liverpool and Everton but his standards dropped during project restart ( Which is expected due to his age) and then got injured. He has a lot of potential and will definitely go on loan to a premiership team next season once we buy another central midfielder.  But as off today he is our 4th choice central midfielder and rightly so

I do think Jorginho is underappreciated by Chelsea fans but the complaint in relation to Billy is that he is not even Making the bench, he is certainly good enough to get on the bench in front of Emerson and take some minutes off Jorginho every now and again. 

Billy may not have the experience and positional sense which Jorginho possesses but he certainly offers more mobility and energy and to say that they are players of a similar level is not really an outlandish statement. 

[Gol15]

32 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I do think Jorginho is underappreciated by Chelsea fans but the complaint in relation to Billy is that he is not even Making the bench, he is certainly good enough to get on the bench in front of Emerson and take some minutes off Jorginho every now and again. 

Billy may not have the experience and positional sense which Jorginho possesses but he certainly offers more mobility and energy and to say that they are players of a similar level is not really an outlandish statement. 

Because of his quality with the ball he was played less in the Jorginho role this season and more in the "Kovacic role" where he was going more forward and trying to make something happen through the middle.

I think that role can be a good way for him to get better because he would be playing with his strengths if you know what I mean and he wouldn't need to rely on some experience or awareness that he at his current age simply doesn't have yet, which is normal.

In that sense we have Kovacic, Kante and him as the DMs that carry the ball and make forward runs while Jorginho stays back and relies on positioning and team movement, I think at this age Gilmour would benefit more from having the ball more in his feet, it's rare to see a young player like Havertz that has such great positional awareness and that can read the game so well.

Tuchel is known for working with younger players so I have no doubt that if he wants to keep Gilmour that he will know how to get him involved but maybe that won't happen this season despite the fact that it was decided pretty fast that Gilmour won't be going on loan in January.

We should keep in mind that Tuchel is focused on grinding the results now till the end of the season, he apparently likes Pulisic very much but he's not doing him any favors so far so it's clear that Tuchel is well aware of the fact that Pulisic has been a bit worse this season and even Lampard couldn't really get him going so maybe the reason why Gilmour has been overlooked is also for his own benefit, after all Tuchel didn't care to automatically involve Havertz till he was really ready and that timing worked out very well due to our win vs Everton.

[ozboy]

Tuchel mentioned Gilmour recently and said he was unlucky not to be on bench or something similar. I think Many underestimate Jorginho. He doesn’t have much pace, plays good but not killer passes and is not a massive ball winner. Much of time he is nearly invisible, and yet he makes the team tic. Rarely loses the ball, rarely out of position, reads the game and brings others in. He is just a good team player. Gilmour is flashier, much more visible when he plays but not as strong and makes more mistakes. Also Gilmour has little pace. I like Gilmour and he will likely be a good player, better on the ball than in defence. 

[strider6004]

On 09/03/2021 at 15:06, cfcwomble said:

What are people's thoughts on Scotty Parker? 😂😂😂😂

I think he is doing very well at Fulham.

Liam mentioned something about his private life not something I know about yet does dress as though he is fashion conscious in a way a younger person might do.

 

[strider6004]

On 09/03/2021 at 13:51, axman2526 said:

After a run of facing the top sides in the league now we face different prospects yet with some symmetry. If we leave off the cup games we have:

Leeds (a) - big derby game, safe in mid table

WBA (h) - desperate for points in relegation scrap.

Crystal Palace (a) - minor derby game, safe in mid table

Brighton (h) - see west Brom

West ham (a) - medium derby, top 4 player at the mo.

Fulham (h) - minor derby, desperate for points in relegation scrap.

 

3 home games in a row vs 3 of the bottom 5. 3 away games that are different size derby's. If we make the most of those, could be in a very strong position for top 4.

I think we will get the 4th spot.

West Ham -medium derby - that might depend on our respective positions when we play them if they stay the seem that will be a major match.

Fulham - minor derby - to us, major derby to Fulham and this one may well mean survival for them.

 

[Bob stark]

14 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Only Newcastle conceded more goals in the premier league than us under Lampard reign, seems pretty bad to me.

In total? 

Of course, kepa was the worst gk in the league last season. You can't do anything if your gk can't save shot or catch cross

[Paddy]

20 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

At the start of his tenure I mentioned that once he hits double figures in terms of games we can start to build a judgement on him as a Chelsea Manager and after 11 games I have to say that I have been hugely impressed. He has changed the structure of the team and provided a solid foundation based on some of our more experienced players and has opted to go with round pegs in round holes as opposed to trying to shoehorn players into positions where they may not quite be comfortable. Having 3 CB's helps in covering the defensive gap in our squad left by lack of natural CDM's as it allows us to play the combination of Jorginho and Kova who are arguably our best pairing when it comes to chemistry and complimenting each others style.

He has made 50+ changes in the 11 games he has been with us which tells me he still is looking for a settled team however his comments after the Everton game tells me that he may not have a settled starting 11 and look to take a more flexible approach when it comes to team selection even in the foreseeable future.

The only drawback I have seen so far is the way he treated CHO in the Southampton game and the way Tammy has been the scapegoat on a few occasions & Billy has not even been making the squad yet we can opt to have 3 LB's in a match day squad. I feel as though there are double standards when it comes to our youth team players and the way they are treated in comparison to the senior members. Having said that it may not be Tuchel but directions from the board to get the senior players involved in order to make them visible to the market as they will be looking to generate funds and trim the squad in the next transfer window.

Everything considered I would give Tuchel a 7/10 after the first 11 games.

His very first team selection , by his own admission, was entirely picked on perceived reputations and experience - no starting place for Mason you may recall ?

Not sure it’s fair to accuse TT of double standards ?   Given that he is on a relatively short term contract which, as we all know, is dependant and reliant on results, he’s gonna stick with the proven and after 11 games most of us would agree with the team and bench he picks - I can even understand him selecting Kepa v Barnsley and then  v Newcastle - I don’t see him taking ‘chances’ other than those forced on him or calculated and hard won.

I think Tammy has had enough opportunities to showcase himself in matches as have MM and cho, less so Billy, (right now, I wouldn’t pick BG ahead of Jorginho, Kante or Kova) their ‘success’ is evident in their continued selection or not.

I think at times, what clouds our judgement is the ‘one of our own’ sentiment ? 

 

[strider6004]

21 hours ago, Backbiter said:

Agree with all your points. This looks to be a lot more than the traditional 'new manager bounce'.

Definitely better than a 7/10 for me. Would give him 8.5.

I would also give him 8.5 points.

I have no issue with the younger players not being used when we need to win nearly every match to qualify for the CL.

[Imran_CFC]

50 minutes ago, Paddy said:

His very first team selection , by his own admission, was entirely picked on perceived reputations and experience - no starting place for Mason you may recall ?

Not sure it’s fair to accuse TT of double standards ?   Given that he is on a relatively short term contract which, as we all know, is dependant and reliant on results, he’s gonna stick with the proven and after 11 games most of us would agree with the team and bench he picks - I can even understand him selecting Kepa v Barnsley and then  v Newcastle - I don’t see him taking ‘chances’ other than those forced on him or calculated and hard won.

I think Tammy has had enough opportunities to showcase himself in matches as have MM and cho, less so Billy, (right now, I wouldn’t pick BG ahead of Jorginho, Kante or Kova) their ‘success’ is evident in their continued selection or not.

I think at times, what clouds our judgement is the ‘one of our own’ sentiment ? 

 

The reason I stated double standards is because I can't see him taking one of the senior players off, For example Ziyech has put in some absolute disaster classes since Tuchel has come in (Barnsley & United come to mind) alongside some sub apps yet he has not been subbed at HT or taken off once he has come on. In comparison Tammy has been subbed off at HT on a couple of occasions, Tammy was not great in those appearances but he was no worse then some of the other players & CHO was taken off against Southampton when he looked pretty decent.

In regards to Billy my view has not been that Tuchel needs to start him over the likes of Jorginho, Kova etc. my view has been that he needs to be on the bench, we do not need 2 LB's on the bench and he should be there ahead of Emerson. People may state that Tuchel may opt to use Emerson as a left sided CB but the likelihood is in the case of an injury to a CB a genuine CB will be coming on (For example Silva was planning to come on when Zouma appeared injured) and Alonso/Ben will alternate in case of injury.

I don't want to take away from what Tuchel has done but those are the reasons I scored him a 7 instead of an 8 or 9. 

[jack_super_class]

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

In total? 

Of course, kepa was the worst gk in the league last season. You can't do anything if your gk can't save shot or catch cross

In total yes, last season and this season. Kepa didn't help sure but i don't think you can blame it all on Kepa.

[coco]

1 hour ago, jack_super_class said:

In total yes, last season and this season. Kepa didn't help sure but i don't think you can blame it all on Kepa.

Yeah it wasn't all Kepa, 99% of the blame goes to the person who scouted him for us. 

[Argo]

1 hour ago, jack_super_class said:

In total yes, last season and this season. Kepa didn't help sure but i don't think you can blame it all on Kepa.

I think the bulk of our problems were down to him and Willy, we basically had two third choice keepers last season and it shown.

The difference Edou has made is more than just his saves. Defenders don't second guess themselves and are more assured (even Thiago was nervous playing with Caballero), he commands his area and attackers don't shoot from what usually would be regarded as unrealistic areas anymore, I saw it especially against Liverpool, they've scored some long rangers against Kepa so I imagine it was muscle memory for them to try their luck against us, a few times they were about too but changed their mind at the very last second when they realized who was in goal.

[jack_super_class]

26 minutes ago, coco said:

Yeah it wasn't all Kepa, 99% of the blame goes to the person who scouted him for us. 

We did win the Europa league and finish 3rd with him in goal under Sarri.

[Paddy]

1 hour ago, Imran_CFC said:

The reason I stated double standards is because I can't see him taking one of the senior players off, For example Ziyech has put in some absolute disaster classes since Tuchel has come in (Barnsley & United come to mind) alongside some sub apps yet he has not been subbed at HT or taken off once he has come on. In comparison Tammy has been subbed off at HT on a couple of occasions, Tammy was not great in those appearances but he was no worse then some of the other players & CHO was taken off against Southampton when he looked pretty decent.

In regards to Billy my view has not been that Tuchel needs to start him over the likes of Jorginho, Kova etc. my view has been that he needs to be on the bench, we do not need 2 LB's on the bench and he should be there ahead of Emerson. People may state that Tuchel may opt to use Emerson as a left sided CB but the likelihood is in the case of an injury to a CB a genuine CB will be coming on (For example Silva was planning to come on when Zouma appeared injured) and Alonso/Ben will alternate in case of injury.

I don't want to take away from what Tuchel has done but those are the reasons I scored him a 7 instead of an 8 or 9. 

I don’t necessarily have an issue with your rating of TT , although I believe it should be higher btw, it’s more that you think he’s victimising youth team players in favour of senior players ? I’m sorry Imran, I don’t think that that is the case.

Like you and many others, if not all on this board,  I am mystified as to what Ziyech does in competitive matches to have warranted initial selection never mind continued game time , but I wouldn’t describe Ziyech as a senior player, he’s certainly never done anything of note in my mind to be considered ‘senior’,  quite the opposite in fact and honestly, I too was screaming for him to be hooked - but it not as if BG offers competition for Ziyechs position is it ? 

I obviously don’t know what TT thinks, but my read on it is Tammy isn’t really good enough at this level tbh and cho needs to switch on for the whole of the game, he’s doing enough to be regularly picked now, but when you have major defensive responsibilities as a wb , you need to be ‘on it’ all the time and carry out team instructions to the letter - I didn’t see the Southampton game , but in other games I have watched, he does lack focus and is guilty of ball watching at times, imo?

I think you are correct, Emerson is picked in a multiple sub role, mostly lwb or lcb , I assume (and hope!)  it’s a ‘just in case’ selection rather than with any intention of giving him game time, but if the sh*t hit the fan Emerson could cover a midfield role or even stick him upfront in an emergency - I don’t say he would be effective but he offers many more cover permutations than Billy can - I believe that’s why he gets in in front of BG.

Your argument for Billy is presumably predicated on him getting game time rather than offering cover - I just don’t see that in lieu of the current incumbents I’m afraid ?