6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I was hoping that Pulisic does well but this clearly wasn't a game for him, specially not to start it. Tuchel made some subs and we looked less dangerous then when Werner was at the top since his first touch is poor.

Its a fine line between meddling with the winning team, and ballsing  it up like today, he got away with it against Everton, today we just looked flat, especially against a side who are all endeavour and f**k all else....

Big fan of TT and the overall impact he has had.  Today was not a good performance at all, and thought he left it too late to change things.  That said, when changed, we didn't offer anything.

Chelsea are nearly men.  Great chance, and really should be winning games like this.  Away to Leeds, early kickoff, dodgy pitch and mixed weather, and well, we weren't up to it.  To me it all comes down to end product and no players taking responsibility in the final third.  These stats are not good enough - the players have to do more or be sold/replaced (these stats might be before today):

Apps / Goals / Assists

Ziyech 15 / 1 / 3
Puslisic 19 / 1 / 1
Odoi 19 / 2 / 2
Werner 28 / 5 / 5
Havertz 21 / 1 / 2

That says it all to me.  80% of the above attacking players are closer to 1 goal than 5 this season, yet they should be in double digits.  Said another way, collectively they have played 102 league games this season, and only scored 10 goals.  That is awful.
 

Edited March 13, 20215 yr by PhilH930

I dont mind the team team selection, we created some good chances. 

I was disappointed we didnt seem to want to really go it though. Real lack of urgency, when 3 points wouldve been massive. 

Likely we will now be playing catch up again, and will find ourselves 6th or 7th by the time we next play a league game.

1 minute ago, PhilH930 said:

Big fan of TT and the overall impact he has had.  Today was not a good performance at all, and thought he left it too late to change things.  That said, when changed, we didn't offer anything.

Chelsea are nearly men.  Great chance, and really should be winning games like this.  Away to Leeds, early kickoff, dodgy pitch and mixed weather, and well, we weren't up to it.  To me it all comes down to end product and no players taking responsibility in the final third.  These stats are not good enough - the players have to do more or be sold/replaced (these stats might be before today):

Apps / Goals / Assists

Ziyech 15 / 1 / 3
Puslisic 19 / 1 / 1
Odoi 19 / 2 / 2
Werner 28 / 5 / 5
Havertz 21 / 1 / 2

That says it all to me.  80% of the above attacking players are closer to 1 goal than 5 this season, yet they should be in double digits.
 

Most disappointed with Pulisic this season. Werner, Ziyech and Havertz are new and in all fairness Havertz basically won us the previous game vs Everton while not adding to his stat record there though.

20 minutes ago, Deino said:

He tinkered with the lineup too much today. Should have played the standard 343 with Pulisic left and Mount on the right.

He's been giving too many chances for Ziyech. 

It was still 343 today as far as I could tell?

11 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Big fan of TT and the overall impact he has had.  Today was not a good performance at all, and thought he left it too late to change things.  That said, when changed, we didn't offer anything.

Chelsea are nearly men.  Great chance, and really should be winning games like this.  Away to Leeds, early kickoff, dodgy pitch and mixed weather, and well, we weren't up to it.  To me it all comes down to end product and no players taking responsibility in the final third.  These stats are not good enough - the players have to do more or be sold/replaced (these stats might be before today):

Apps / Goals / Assists

Ziyech 15 / 1 / 3
Puslisic 19 / 1 / 1
Odoi 19 / 2 / 2
Werner 28 / 5 / 5
Havertz 21 / 1 / 2

That says it all to me.  80% of the above attacking players are closer to 1 goal than 5 this season, yet they should be in double digits.  Said another way, collectively they have played 102 league games this season, and only scored 10 goals.  That is awful.
 

I get and agree with your point, but "Apps" is a bit misleading - a 2 minute substitute appearance counts as an "App" and that's hardly a fair basis to assess performance !

I like the "per 90" stat for this sort of stuff ... but even doing it that way, all these 5 would be way off the pace expected ....

8 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Big fan of TT and the overall impact he has had.  Today was not a good performance at all, and thought he left it too late to change things.  That said, when changed, we didn't offer anything.

Chelsea are nearly men.  Great chance, and really should be winning games like this.  Away to Leeds, early kickoff, dodgy pitch and mixed weather, and well, we weren't up to it.  To me it all comes down to end product and no players taking responsibility in the final third.  These stats are not good enough - the players have to do more or be sold/replaced (these stats might be before today):

Apps / Goals / Assists

Ziyech 15 / 1 / 3
Puslisic 19 / 1 / 1
Odoi 19 / 2 / 2
Werner 28 / 5 / 5
Havertz 21 / 1 / 2

That says it all to me.  80% of the above attacking players are closer to 1 goal than 5 this season, yet they should be in double digits.  Said another way, collectively they have played 102 league games this season, and only scored 10 goals.  That is awful.
 

It's crazy looking at the number of goals and assists those players you have listed have contributed this season. It's a shocking decline to what they were offering last season. No wonder our attack looks so pitiful, every single one of them are performing well below the standard required and a standard we should expect of them when you consider what they have shown in the past.

This has been the biggest disappointment of the season for me. After the performances of those players last season, who wouldn't have been excited to see them all playing together in a Chelsea shirt? But it's just not happening right now. I can't think of a time when so many top players have gone from looking like super stars in the making to nothing so quickly. It's like all of them have just had their peak seasons, reached the age of 35 and can no longer hit the same heights they were at previously.

I didn't like the subs today. I would have brought on CHO instead of James at RWB. And I really think Kovacic would have benefitted us today in the second half. The game was so scrappy and Kovacic could have given us some control and a base to build attacks off of with his abilty to hold on to the ball and dribble through the lines. 

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I get and agree with your point, but "Apps" is a bit misleading - a 2 minute substitute appearance counts as an "App" and that's hardly a fair basis to assess performance !

I like the "per 90" stat for this sort of stuff ... but even doing it that way, all these 5 would be way off the pace expected ....

I agree - better to normalize.  In my frustration I hand picked the stat to point at them!

Imagine how good Tore Andre Flo's per 90m stat would be!  What's he doing these days?

Personally would have subbed Chillwell first. He crosses to spots too often, misses teammates runs. To me he's our 4th best outside defender, unfortunately our top two are both on the right.

16 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I get and agree with your point, but "Apps" is a bit misleading - a 2 minute substitute appearance counts as an "App" and that's hardly a fair basis to assess performance !

I like the "per 90" stat for this sort of stuff ... but even doing it that way, all these 5 would be way off the pace expected ....

Better not because that would make Mount look bad.

Just now, Wearyourblue said:

Personally would have subbed Chillwell first. He crosses to spots too often, misses teammates runs. To me he's our 4th best outside defender, unfortunately our top two are both on the right.

I agree. Chilwell pass % today was 66.7%, so he was basically misplacing one in every three passes ...

Smh when I see those stats but, the majority of them are new player accumulating to a new league. My issue here is do we stick with them and assume after a season all of their productivity rates will drastically increase. Or do we invest even more in attacking talents risking the exact same thing as this season.

Getting new players doesn't guarantee they will succeed. Seems like TT has to be commended once again because clearly he knows what we all can see. I for one hope we carry on with 3atb for the rest of the season. Even though we played it for this game at times it looked like we were in a back 4 and much more vunerable.

At this point I feel the blame has to be on the players, they get into shooting positions and either flat out miss or shoot right at the keeper. Where is the composure. The Chillwell chance comes to mind and sums up the last game through on goal feels a bit of pressure and toe pokes or uses the outside of his foot when he could of blasted it.

 

TT has done really well so far in his time here, today was the second time he made a mistake with his rotation that cost us a win, the other being Saints.

As has been said before when you rotate the team and still win you are a genius, when you do it and dont win then you are stupid for changing a winning side.

If anything he went very offensive today and is just not good enough end product form the attacking options.

He can't get our attack going at all, no idea what he's doing with some of these team selections and subs. Just play players where there most effective for f**ks sake.

1 hour ago, PhilH930 said:

That says it all to me.  80% of the above attacking players are closer to 1 goal than 5 this season, yet they should be in double digits.  Said another way, collectively they have played 102 league games this season, and only scored 10 goals.  That is awful.

It's unprecedented. I'd add Abraham with 6 goals in 20 and Giroud with 4 in 14. That's 20 goals in 136 appearances.

7 attackers, 136 appearances and they have scored less goals then Bruno Fernandes between them. Or Kane, or Salah.

 

54 minutes ago, dkw said:

He can't get our attack going at all, no idea what he's doing with some of these team selections and subs. Just play players where there most effective for f**ks sake.

What would you have done differently?

It looks like an impossible task to get our attackers going right now. Lampard couldn't do it and neither can Tuchel so far. At least Havertz looks much better and against Everton we really should have scored four or five only to be let down by Werners finishing especially.

I think its more down to players than anything else.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Sindre said:

What would you have done differently?

It looks like an impossible task to get our attackers going right now. Lampard couldn't do it and neither can Tuchel so far. At least Havertz looks much better and against Everton we really should have scored four or five only to be let down by Werners finishing especially.

I think its more down to players than anything else.

 

 

Played James at right back, giroud up front, mount ahead of kante, havertz behind giroud, pulisic at left attacker. Basically round pegs in round holes. 

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

It's crazy looking at the number of goals and assists those players you have listed have contributed this season. It's a shocking decline to what they were offering last season. No wonder our attack looks so pitiful, every single one of them are performing well below the standard required and a standard we should expect of them when you consider what they have shown in the past.

This has been the biggest disappointment of the season for me. After the performances of those players last season, who wouldn't have been excited to see them all playing together in a Chelsea shirt? But it's just not happening right now. I can't think of a time when so many top players have gone from looking like super stars in the making to nothing so quickly. It's like all of them have just had their peak seasons, reached the age of 35 and can no longer hit the same heights they were at previously.

Do they play the same role as in their previous club? 

27 minutes ago, Sindre said:

What would you have done differently?

It looks like an impossible task to get our attackers going right now. Lampard couldn't do it and neither can Tuchel so far. At least Havertz looks much better and against Everton we really should have scored four or five only to be let down by Werners finishing especially.

I think its more down to players than anything else.

 

 

It is funny that our offense look better last season with Willian. 

I think the balance of our attacker is a bit chaotic this season because we kinda force player in

3 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Big fan of TT and the overall impact he has had.  Today was not a good performance at all, and thought he left it too late to change things.  That said, when changed, we didn't offer anything.

Chelsea are nearly men.  Great chance, and really should be winning games like this.  Away to Leeds, early kickoff, dodgy pitch and mixed weather, and well, we weren't up to it.  To me it all comes down to end product and no players taking responsibility in the final third.  These stats are not good enough - the players have to do more or be sold/replaced (these stats might be before today):

Apps / Goals / Assists

Ziyech 15 / 1 / 3
Puslisic 19 / 1 / 1
Odoi 19 / 2 / 2
Werner 28 / 5 / 5
Havertz 21 / 1 / 2

That says it all to me.  80% of the above attacking players are closer to 1 goal than 5 this season, yet they should be in double digits.  Said another way, collectively they have played 102 league games this season, and only scored 10 goals.  That is awful.
 

It really is awful, and why I defence will have to remain rock solid for us to have a chance of ending the season well. 

20 minutes ago, dkw said:

Played James at right back, giroud up front, mount ahead of kante, havertz behind giroud, pulisic at left attacker. Basically round pegs in round holes. 

So 4231 basically? Could work of course but we have looked very good in Tuchel's system so far. We came off two terrific performances at Anfield and against Everton so a formation change doesn't seem sensible to me. Against Liverpool we scored twice and against Everton we really should have had four or five.

Basically I think you are being harsh on him in terms of getting the attack going. I think he's doing well at that too all things considered.

The sad truth is that don't have a single effective attacker this season. You can play them wherever you want and between Lampard & Tuchel they have played every attacker almost everywhere but in the end they have all been a letdown.

In the end I think he focused solely on Atletico and picked a few he will not start on wednesday.

He has done really well in his time here, our defence has looked great apart from today when he shifted the formation.

He gambled who he picked could beat Leeds. It nearly backfired, mendy stopped it being a defeat. If we go through against Atletico he will happily take it and get praise for it, especially given our league fixtures see us facing 4 very average, poor even, sides in WBA, Fulham, Brighton and Palace, the first 3 at home and West ham in a top 4 shoot out.

He, and us will expect us to beat the first 4 and also turn over the hammers. If we do and get past Madrid this result will seem ok.

If we dont then he will rightly get stick for derailing out momentum.  Fine line between genius and insanity. 

13 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

In the end I think he focused solely on Atletico and picked a few he will not start on wednesday.

He has done really well in his time here, our defence has looked great apart from today when he shifted the formation.

He gambled who he picked could beat Leeds. It nearly backfired, mendy stopped it being a defeat. If we go through against Atletico he will happily take it and get praise for it, especially given our league fixtures see us facing 4 very average, poor even, sides in WBA, Fulham, Brighton and Palace, the first 3 at home and West ham in a top 4 shoot out.

He, and us will expect us to beat the first 4 and also turn over the hammers. If we do and get past Madrid this result will seem ok.

If we dont then he will rightly get stick for derailing out momentum.  Fine line between genius and insanity. 

I’m sorry to quote you, there are several posts on the same line and yours just happened to be the last one, not that I’m picking on you. But the bold bits really amuse me. We are talking about f**king Leeds! This result is not ok to any Chelsea fan, we want those c**ts buried and our team to give it all against them. If we beat Atlético great, but still we should have beaten or given Leeds hell today. That second half was just annoying, no urgency. It’s Leeds ffs!! Who cares about the CL when we are playing Leeds? Any Chelsea fan thinking about Atleti while we were watching the game? I think that’s what is missing from the game, the fans on the stadiums, that rivalry is lost and the players and coach just don’t get it without the terraces filled with fans and banter.

sorry again to quote you.

3 minutes ago, RMH said:

I’m sorry to quote you, there are several posts on the same line and yours just happened to be the last one, not that I’m picking on you. But the bold bits really amuse me. We are talking about f**king Leeds! This result is not ok to any Chelsea fan, we want those c**ts buried and our team to give it all against them. If we beat Atlético great, but still we should have beaten or given Leeds hell today. That second half was just annoying, no urgency. It’s Leeds ffs!! Who cares about the CL when we are playing Leeds? Any Chelsea fan thinking about Atleti while we were watching the game? I think that’s what is missing from the game, the fans on the stadiums, that rivalry is lost and the players and coach just don’t get it without the terraces filled with fans and banter.

sorry again to quote you.

No problem at all mate. I agree with you, did not want to just beat them, wanted another 4 goal smash. 

To be fair Lamps knows exactly what the rivalry means and he is a Chelsea fan, TT is  ot and possibly does not. What he does know is he is on an 18 month deal and he will get other chances to make up top 4. To him I would guess is just another league game. One bad display against Madrid however and is lights out in the CL and past few years that is all that matters to his employer.