Chelsea breakaway from breakaway European Super League

[jack h]

8 hours ago, Argo said:

The reward for finishing 9th in the PL is on par with winning La Liga, the reward for finishing bottom trump's the prize money for winning most top flight league's on the planet.

There's no league better than ours for rewarding failure, Norwich have made an obscene amount of money from coming up, stinking the place out, going down and returning again. With good recruitment they could probably nail down a permanent PL place off the back of "prize" money for finishing bottom. This system has also made it harder for an underdog lower league team to get a dream PL place (like for example Blackpool of 2010). The English football pyramid may not literally be a closed shop but for all intents and purposes it's largely closed off at the top (PL and top half of the championship), looking at the top half of the Championship currently only Barnsley and to an extent Millwall are surprise teams there, all the rest have been in the PL recently. I remember about 15 years ago Colchester United made a serious play off push in the Championship, a club that size will never sniff such heights again because 2/3rds of the Championship will have left over parachute money from a PL stint to blow any little dreamer club out of the water if they dare get to that level (case in point what's happening to Wycombe).

At what point should the line have been drawn?

Was it fair that Arsenal got a promotion in 1919 they "achieved" while finishing outside the promotion places? That is no better than these proposals yet football back then is widely considered pure.

Was the interception of the PL (initially planned as a breakaway league for the at the time big five of the North London/Scouse duos and United) fair?

Ajax a traditionally big club got to the semi final of the CL two years ago but because of the economic situation in their league they got raided by the big cats for their players, is that fair? Could we remotely blame them if they accept an offer to join a super league as opposed to their current reality? A super league three years ago with them in it would have seen them keep the likes of Ziyech, De Jong, De Ligt, Dest and Van De Beek and could you imagine that team if they peaked together? Instead they had to start again with players not fit to lace the boots of the guys mentioned above.

I mean don't get this twisted I don't in any way shape or form want this, but football integrity and fairness? That was gone a very very very long time ago if it even existed in the first place.

I'm not sure what the overall point in your post is that argues against what I say? I agree with pretty much all you say but my answer to the problems you outline largely remains the same.... redistribute the money more evenly and distribute the champions league and europa spots more evenly between the different leagues even if it means England loses a spot! Just because theres many past instances of unfairness doesn't mean you should ignore present or future ones and doesn't mean football can't turn around and try reversing those injustices, this proposal just widens the gap financially and destroys any faint hope or illusion of competition.

[Gol15]

2 minutes ago, Phillip said:

JP Morgan died in the early 1900s, right?

Just about to ruin European football with 3.5 billion euros so it's like the US Dracula that never really dies...

[forbzy]

47 minutes ago, Argo said:

The reward for finishing 9th in the PL is on par with winning La Liga, the reward for finishing bottom trump's the prize money for winning most top flight league's on the planet.

There's no league better than ours for rewarding failure, Norwich have made an obscene amount of money from coming up, stinking the place out, going down and returning again. With good recruitment they could probably nail down a permanent PL place off the back of "prize" money for finishing bottom. This system has also made it harder for an underdog lower league team to get a dream PL place (like for example Blackpool of 2010). The English football pyramid may not literally be a closed shop but for all intents and purposes it's largely closed off at the top (PL and top half of the championship), looking at the top half of the Championship currently only Barnsley and to an extent Millwall are surprise teams there, all the rest have been in the PL recently. I remember about 15 years ago Colchester United made a serious play off push in the Championship, a club that size will never sniff such heights again because 2/3rds of the Championship will have left over parachute money from a PL stint to blow any little dreamer club out of the water if they dare get to that level (case in point what's happening to Wycombe).

At what point should the line have been drawn?

Was it fair that Arsenal got a promotion in 1919 they "achieved" while finishing outside the promotion places? That is no better than these proposals yet football back then is widely considered pure.

Was the interception of the PL (initially planned as a breakaway league for the at the time big five of the North London/Scouse duos and United) fair?

Ajax a traditionally big club got to the semi final of the CL two years ago but because of the economic situation in their league they got raided by the big cats for their players, is that fair? Could we remotely blame them if they accept an offer to join a super league as opposed to their current reality? A super league three years ago with them in it would have seen them keep the likes of Ziyech, De Jong, De Ligt, Dest and Van De Beek and could you imagine that team if they peaked together? Instead they had to start again with players not fit to lace the boots of the guys mentioned above.

I mean don't get this twisted I don't in any way shape or form want this, but football integrity and fairness? That was gone a very very very long time ago if it even existed in the first place.

In terms of promotion/relegation little has changed over the decades since I started following football in the late 70's. It has usually been a lot of the same teams yoyoing between the top 2 flights with the occasional newcomer. We had Watford, Luton, and Wimbledon in the 80's. In the last decade or so we've had Bournemouth, Reading, and Wigan to think or a few examples. Then there are so-called sleeping giants that have big fan bases but struggle in the lower divisions only to emerge after getting their acts together after some barren years. Recent examples being Sheffield United, Wolves, and Leeds. You mention Barnsley and Millwall this season, but you are forgetting that Brentford missed out in the playoffs last year and may yet come up this year.

I think more of a problem in recent times has been the increased dominance of the usual suspects in the top 6. Although as others have pointed out it was really a group of 3 or 4 for many years and has now at least grown to 6 thanks to Man City's emergence, and even Spurs with their new stadium. Ironically this season the race for European places is possibly as open as it has been for years as more clubs have been able to strengthen. The time of this seems very convenient when the likes of Liverpool, Spurs, and Arsenal are struggling to make the European competitions for the first time in a while. Just as the other clubs are showing some signs of catching them they ensure that they get a huge cash injection to push them away.

The whole effort strikes me as a desperate money grab from some of more powerful clubs that are teetering on bankrupcy after blowing billions on wasted signings, aligned with losses during Covid times. Chelsea and City were different from the rest in that they weren't in the same financial disaster areas due to their owners. We should have stood up to them and stayed put. Real Madrid have been bailed out by their government a couple of times, and now they want to take a bailout via JP Morgan and the top Prermier League clubs. They will drag the rest of the teams down with them to the next financial crisis.

[Bob stark]

5 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I’d probably be in favour and quite excited about this if they’d made this and everyone still had to qualify. I f**king hate UEFA & FIFA for that matter - two incredibly corrupt organisations and the new format for the CL looks absolutely terrible. This could have been much, much better. My only issue with it really is the fact that teams don’t need to qualify. If they did, I’d support it.

Then it defeat the purpose of esl. This European team doesn't care about uefa corruption bla2, in the end of the day they need somebody to run all these tournaments, managing sponsor, etc2. They are more than happy to pay somebody to do it. 

What they want is similar to US franchise. Bigger and guaranteed slice of pie

[sonic90]

5 hours ago, forbzy said:

Only speculation right now but maybe some hope that Chelsea and City are getting cold feet about the idea, having been reluctant in the first place:

 

 

I believe those rumours because the owners of these clubs aren't in it to make money, they threw money into the game for a chance of glory.

That's probably why PSG aren't in it as well as they probably want to reign supreme in France, as for Bayern it's fan owned so obviously they wouldn't allow it.

As for persuading Spurs, yeah right, as if Daniel Levy is going to give up the golden ticket just as his club's golden era is ending and they could well be heading back where they belong.

[Spiller86]

I think the government's stance will probably end this. 

When we start talking huge taxes and failure to provide visas etc then you're in trouble. 

Would be nice if we were a club who change our mind.

[Bob stark]

33 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

I think the government's stance will probably end this. 

When we start talking huge taxes and failure to provide visas etc then you're in trouble. 

Would be nice if we were a club who change our mind.

But what visa and what taxes.  

If you want to stop this, uefa and all the fa can decide to kick everyone out, ban all player from euro etc2. Broadcaster should say we won't broadcast your game, fans say we won't attend your game. It will be very expensive for everyone but that will stop this. 

Will this happen, I highly doubt it

 

[axman2526]

14 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

But what visa and what taxes.  

If you want to stop this, uefa and all the fa can decide to kick everyone out, ban all player from euro etc2. Broadcaster should say we won't broadcast your game, fans say we won't attend your game. It will be very expensive for everyone but that will stop this. 

Will this happen, I highly doubt it

 

What Visas? Stopping those clubs signing any overseas players by denying visas.

What taxes? By increase taxes to huge levels because they are not following the rule makers rules.

Between royal family and government they are the law, if they want to stop this they can and will.

[EdinburghBlue]

7 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Even if qualification was in place, I still wouldn't support it. 18 games minimum would still mean giving up the domestic cups. I would hate that.

Where is this point of view come from? I’ve not read anything from the ESL or the clubs to say they’ll withdraw from the domestic cup competitions? If anything we should be staying in them - especially the Carabao cup as it’ll be the only chance we get to see youngsters get game time now.

[EdinburghBlue]

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Then it defeat the purpose of esl. This European team doesn't care about uefa corruption bla2, in the end of the day they need somebody to run all these tournaments, managing sponsor, etc2. They are more than happy to pay somebody to do it. 

What they want is similar to US franchise. Bigger and guaranteed slice of pie

There’s a difference between having an organisation or someone run it than the proven corruption that occurs within UEFA. My point is, they could have created this competition & get a much bigger pot of money to be shared but do it fairly through qualification as opposed to the closed shop it is now.

[EdinburghBlue]

7 hours ago, RMH said:

Yes, I’d also support a movement from the roots to rid of UEFA and FIFA, but that would be against the spirit of this ESL. All they want is to make it clear that they are the elite, the lords of football, and if/when they decide to share the breadcrumbs, they’ll do it in their terms (they chose to let 5 peasants play with them each year). If anything, this idea is even worse in spirit than uefa (which must be some kind of record).

I can’t agree that it’s worse than UEFA or FIFA when there’s proven corruption within those organisations. The expansion of the CL is for the exact same reasons - more money. The only people involved in football who are invested purely for football and the love of the sport are the fans - everyone else is there for the money. I would give players the benefit of the doubt but although I’m sure there’s some - I imagine a lot of them are there for the money ala Assou-Ekkotta, Bale, Batistuta & IIRC even Ronaldinho said he doesn’t enjoy watching football, only playing it. There’s probably a lot more, those are just the ones off the top of my head who I remember saying they’re not actually fussed about football.

Edited April 20, 2021 by EdinburghBlue

[KonaKai Blue]

The only reason I dont want a Super League is to stop the real winner in that format being the Spanish and Italian clubs. They've dominated for years and now are in big trouble. The PL could really leave them behind if we stick to Uefa but smart man Perez has latched onto us as the cash cow and the PL American owners have fallen for the money instead of realising that Madrid as a European rival could be dead and buried for years.

[Blue Exile]

So we could be booted out the CL as early as Friday this week...

[Sexyfootball]

A couple that were doing the rounds yesterday ...

 

 

 

On a more serious note, I really hope the board at CFC has the courage this morning to withdraw us from this fiasco ...

[Snedger]

32 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

The only people involved in football who are invested purely for football and the love of the sport are the fans

That seems a bit of a generalisation to me. I think many (most) fans are only interested in the club they support, and their only concern is that clubs success and the reflected glory. It’s fanaticism, not a love of the sport. That’s why those complaining now will get over it as quickly as they got over Lampard’s sacking and those who already support this idea can’t wait for it and couldn’t give a damn about what it means for all the rest of the clubs and leagues in all of Europe. Screw you Everton, Ajax, Benfica, Red Star, Anderlecht....

[evissy]

5 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

A couple that were doing the rounds yesterday ...

 

 

 

On a more serious note, I really hope the board at CFC has the courage this morning to withdraw us from this fiasco ...

You can take punches to Tottenham all you want but this is what drives everything. Good fun and all but nothing to do with the current League Position https://www.forbes.com/soccer-valuations/list/

[EdinburghBlue]

2 minutes ago, Snedger said:

That seems a bit of a generalisation to me. I think many (most) fans are only interested in the club they support, and their only concern is that clubs success and the reflected glory. It’s fanaticism, not a love of the sport. That’s why those complaining now will get over it as quickly as they got over Lampard’s sacking and those who already support this idea can’t wait for it and couldn’t give a damn about what it means for all the rest of the clubs and leagues in all of Europe. Screw you Everton, Ajax, Benfica, Red Star, Anderlecht....

You could be right but they’re still in love with football because of that team. It’s still about the sport - there’s no financial gain to fans, if anything, it’s a massive financial drain. Everyone else stands to make money was more my overriding point. 
 

I mean look at UEFA’s rumoured response, banning players and clubs from domestic and international competitions forever. The Slavia Prague boy that racially abused Glen Kamara got a 10 game ban. Difference being dealing with racism doesn’t line their pockets the way the UCL does.

[nonotnowjim]

9 hours ago, jack h said:

Good! Opposing views have no credibility whatsoever with this one, 99.9% of people are unified in condemnation. Anyone trying to defend this is a scab and has no place in football.

Polls actually show a little over 75% are against  - still the majority but far from your 99.9% claim

Edited April 20, 2021 by nonotnowjim
Typo!

[nonotnowjim]

7 hours ago, jack h said:

Why? They're right. Are you in favour of this so called "european super league"

Because any pundits speaking out against the super league and condemning in, but then later working on ESL broadcasts and lining their pockets from it, would be disgusting hypocrites. I never want to see Neville and Carragher on any future ESL programme (if the league ever happens).

[Stim]

2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I think the government's stance will probably end this. 

Are we supposed to be happy governments are going to bat for UEFA and helping protect their cash cow? Do they not have bigger problems to fix in the world than whether clubs want to play in the CL or not ?

Edited April 20, 2021 by Stim

[Sexyfootball]

11 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Polls actually show a little over 75% are against  - still the majority but far from your 99.9% claim

On our poll on here, if you disregard the fence sitters for now, who will eventually lean one way or the other, we have 90 saying No and 15 saying Yes, which is 86% No.

But whether the No number is 75%, 86% or 99.9%, it is an overwhelming number of No's ... 🙂

[nonotnowjim]

8 hours ago, jack h said:

Doesn't change the fact that Gary Neville has been bang on with every point so far...

Nevilles opinion is just that. Fair play to him for using his platform to amplify his voice, but just because he is shouting the loudest doesn’t make him any more “right” than anyone else. 

[Malta Blue]

16 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Polls actually show a little over 75% are in favour - still the majority but far from your 99.9% claim

Am I reading this right 75% of people are in favour of the ESL? If so where did this poll take place Roman Abramovich's head?

Edited April 20, 2021 by Malta Blue

[nonotnowjim]

1 minute ago, Sexyfootball said:

On our poll on here, if you disregard the fence sitters for now, who will eventually lean one way or the other, we have 90 saying No and 15 saying Yes, which is 86% No.

But whether the No number is 75%, 86% or 99.9%, it is an overwhelming number of No's ... 🙂

Agree - but 99.9% of people agree, that some shed end posters need to tone done the hyperbole. 😂

[nonotnowjim]

Just now, Malta Blue said:

Am I reading this right 75% of people te in favour of the ESL? If so where did this poll take place Roman Abramovich's head?

No - it was a typo. 75% are against