21 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Ouch, i nearly said i'd rather wear a spuds shirt. God forgive me.

On 09/06/2022 at 14:56, ducavis said:

Funny thing about Lewandowski is he only started turning up in the big games after 2019. Ask any Bayern fans, & he is 33 now.

Salah is also notorious for not turning up in finals.

f**k his Lack of being a Drogba, we just want someone who could possibly replicate his phenomenal goal scoring record over the past 10years, bats anybody in the PL into a sorry Tap out......

Lukaku is going and that's good.

But last season it was argued that Lukaku was the wrong type of player from the start as the "best" teams these days play with more of a false nine. In that sense it's interesting that both Liverpool & City have now gone and spent £100 million each on a pure number 9s this summer in Nunez and Haaland. We certainly bought the wrong number 9 for us in Lukaku but I do think we needs to be properly replaced so that we don't go into the season with Havertz as our main man up front.

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Lukaku is going and that's good.

But last season it was argued that Lukaku was the wrong type of player from the start as the "best" teams these days play with more of a false nine. In that sense it's interesting that both Liverpool & City have now gone and spent £100 million each on a pure number 9s this summer in Nunez and Haaland. We certainly bought the wrong number 9 for us in Lukaku but I do think we needs to be properly replaced so that we don't go into the season with Havertz as our main man up front.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they become closer to looking like 'normal' teams now. Both lose what made them so formidable formidable as a unit. Infact it was rumoured Pep needed some convincing. Last time he had (on paper) such a misfit for his style was Zlatan and we know what happened there.

City barely even conceded chances last season, with Haaland they lose they first line of defense and fluid movement between the attackers. It's going to take some adapting even if Haaland lives up to his price tag from an individual point of view. Likewise at Liverpool, their success has been a large part to Firmino being a foil for Mane and Salah. If you watch their goals (especially in the 17-20 period) then the sheer amount that came due to Firmino's interplay and movement outside the box making space for those two was obscene.

If we go back a bit further United signing RVN didn't work out how it was suppose too (individually he scored goals and done well but United went from a 3 in a row title team to 1 in 5 with him around).

Although they (surely) haven't picked such a level of flop like we have I'm personally delighted both have fell into the trap of just looking at the top line. Julian Alvarez is literally a picture perfect Pep striker/false 9 and he's never going to be able to demonstrate as such with Haaland there.

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Lukaku is going and that's good.

But last season it was argued that Lukaku was the wrong type of player from the start as the "best" teams these days play with more of a false nine. In that sense it's interesting that both Liverpool & City have now gone and spent £100 million each on a pure number 9s this summer in Nunez and Haaland. We certainly bought the wrong number 9 for us in Lukaku but I do think we needs to be properly replaced so that we don't go into the season with Havertz as our main man up front.

Because it doesn't matter if you play with more of a true 9 or false 9 or whatever. 

In pool case they have been playing with 2 st for years (mane n salah), now mane is gone and his replacement is Diaz who is more of a winger, so now you can chuck a 9 up top. 

In city case, they losed kun and they wanted Kane. Spurs didn't want to sell and that is it. Pep's criteria for st is quite specific, Haaland actually did not fit that category but it is freaking Haaland. 

43 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Because it doesn't matter if you play with more of a true 9 or false 9 or whatever. 

In pool case they have been playing with 2 st for years (mane n salah), now mane is gone and his replacement is Diaz who is more of a winger, so now you can chuck a 9 up top. 

In city case, they losed kun and they wanted Kane. Spurs didn't want to sell and that is it. Pep's criteria for st is quite specific, Haaland actually did not fit that category but it is freaking Haaland. 

Like Argo pointed out Pep doesn’t do Target men. He shipped out Zlatan & they took a €40m+ hit after one season because he didn’t fit his profile. I wouldn’t be too certain Halaand will be a success, as he has always played on counter attacking teams and he is reliant on his pace & strength.

 

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

Lukaku is going and that's good.

But last season it was argued that Lukaku was the wrong type of player from the start as the "best" teams these days play with more of a false nine. In that sense it's interesting that both Liverpool & City have now gone and spent £100 million each on a pure number 9s this summer in Nunez and Haaland. We certainly bought the wrong number 9 for us in Lukaku but I do think we needs to be properly replaced so that we don't go into the season with Havertz as our main man up front.

Was thinking the same over the weekend; could both teams be shifting away from a heavily reliant possession type football which they will need to do to get the best out of their pure “9”s, to a high intensity counterattacking style of football.

I would actually leave Havertz as the front man with no pressure with Broja backing him up. This will be his 3rd season; if he doesn’t perform well, cut our losses at the end of the season & sell him to Bayern. There is a dearth of front men around, Arsenal, Bayern, Barca, Utd are all looking for front men also. I’d rather be patient and go with what we have, than buy the wrong player again out of desperation.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

And it wouldn't surprise me if they become closer to looking like 'normal' teams now. Both lose what made them so formidable formidable as a unit. Infact it was rumoured Pep needed some convincing. Last time he had (on paper) such a misfit for his style was Zlatan and we know what happened there.

Guardiola have proved he can do it with all kinds of strikers at City. Their record breaking league season came with Aguero up top most of the time. as a pure 9. Haaland is a different class and will make them even more formidable in my opinion. This season they at least had a few obvious weaknesses up front but this signing will very likely fix that for them.

7 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Like Argo pointed out Pep doesn’t do Target men. He shipped out Zlatan & they took a €40m+ hit after one season because he didn’t fit his profile. I wouldn’t be too certain Halaand will be a success, as he has always played on counter attacking teams and he is reliant on his pace & strength.

 

Was thinking the same over the weekend; could both teams be shifting away from a heavily reliant possession type football which they will need to do to get the best out of their pure “9”s, to a high intensity counterattacking style of football.

I would actually leave Havertz as the front man with no pressure with Broja backing him up. This will be his 3rd season; if he doesn’t perform well, cut our losses at the end of the season & sell him to Bayern. There is a dearth of front men around, Arsenal, Bayern, Barca, Utd are all looking for front men also. I’d rather be patient and go with what we have, than buy the wrong player again out of desperation.

Lewandowski was scoring for fun under pep. Ibra problem was that he was too maverick for pep, pep want all his player to follow his order. Football wise he was more than fine. 

Having said that, I completely agree with you, If city play the exact same as right now then Haaland will suffer. But will they play the exact same way? Nope. Pep is actually very good at tranforming his team. People forget this city team used to play faster with sane n sterling running down the wing and was extremely dangerous on the break. Now they are a very slow team who play lullaby football. Even his bayern team has two different version. One version was about getting the best out of robbery, the other was about muller + lewa. 

27 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Guardiola have proved he can do it with all kinds of strikers at City. Their record breaking league season came with Aguero up top most of the time. as a pure 9. Haaland is a different class and will make them even more formidable in my opinion. This season they at least had a few obvious weaknesses up front but this signing will very likely fix that for them.

Pep signed Jesus with the intention of being Kun's replacement until the latter knuckled down and adapted to the system.

I don't doubt Haaland will be successful individually but it's worth noting Dortmund got worse as a team after signing him despite his personal record (his first full season they finished outside the top 2, scored less as a team and lost more games than any season since 2008 apart from that final season under Klopp). Surely if he's that good he'll take City up a further level and truly over the hill and far away he'd have also been that good to the point he'd have dragged Dortmund to challenge Bayern at the very least? (Ala Suarez at Brendan's Liverpool).

Infact his record against Bayern is a good example of what I'm saying, he's scored 5 goals in 7 against them yet has still been on the losing side on every occasion and before that Dortmund actually had an okay record in that fixture especially at home.

That said I don't think we are yet ready to take advantage of any United/RVN esque stylistic clash there (unless we somehow pull off Koulibaly while Kante and/or Kova stay fit for an entire season) but I really don't think he's going to mesh in that side the way people think.

Edited June 13, 20224 yr by Argo

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

Pep signed Jesus with the intention of being Kun's replacement until the latter knuckled down and adapted to the system.

I don't doubt Haaland will be successful individually but it's worth noting Dortmund got worse as a team after signing him despite his personal record (his first full season they finished outside the top 2, scored less as a team and lost more games than any season since 2008 apart from that final season under Klopp). Surely if he's that good he'll take City up a further level and truly over the hill and far away he'd have also been that good to the point he'd have dragged Dortmund to challenge Bayern at the very least? (Ala Suarez at Brendan's Liverpool).

Infact his record against Bayern is a good example of what I'm saying, he's scored 5 goals in 7 against them yet has still been on the losing side on every occasion and before that Dortmund actually had an okay record in that fixture especially at home.

That said I don't think we are yet ready to take advantage of any United/RVN esque stylistic clash there (unless we somehow pull off Koulibaly while Kante and/or Kova stay fit for an entire season) but I really don't think he's going to mesh in that side the way people think.

Interesting post. Thanks - I’m intrigued to see how he’ll do at City

6 hours ago, Sindre said:

Lukaku is going and that's good.

But last season it was argued that Lukaku was the wrong type of player from the start as the "best" teams these days play with more of a false nine. In that sense it's interesting that both Liverpool & City have now gone and spent £100 million each on a pure number 9s this summer in Nunez and Haaland. We certainly bought the wrong number 9 for us in Lukaku but I do think we needs to be properly replaced so that we don't go into the season with Havertz as our main man up front.

Tbf Haaland looked far more talented at 17 than Lukaku has ever shown the potential to be at any point in his career.

I think it's incredible how public consensus on Lukaku has shifted so often over the last decade for a player that has remained identical to when he made his debut.

People who hadn't watched him in Serie A trying to pretend he'd improved or Conte had made him a better player was absolutely hilarious.  He was still the same untalented lump he's always been but the calbire of opposition was much lower.  The top defenders still found playing against Lukaku the easiest game of the season because he lacks any tools to trouble them.

I thought we did great business selling him to Everton for 28m and my opinion hasn't changed since then,  the guy is just fundamentally not a very good footballer and his flaws (primarily his lack of techical ability or control in tight spaces) will always be exposed at the highest level.

Having a number 9 is great but they have to have some basic level of technique and Lukaku doesn't meet that standard.  If you watched Benzema and Lukaku play side by side you wouldn't think they're even playing the same sport

 

Edited June 13, 20224 yr by HazardousChoice

16 hours ago, Argo said:

 Suarez at Brendan's Liverpool).

 

Haaland is 21

21 hours ago, Argo said:

Pep signed Jesus with the intention of being Kun's replacement until the latter knuckled down and adapted to the system.

I don't doubt Haaland will be successful individually but it's worth noting Dortmund got worse as a team after signing him despite his personal record (his first full season they finished outside the top 2, scored less as a team and lost more games than any season since 2008 apart from that final season under Klopp). Surely if he's that good he'll take City up a further level and truly over the hill and far away he'd have also been that good to the point he'd have dragged Dortmund to challenge Bayern at the very least? (Ala Suarez at Brendan's Liverpool).

Infact his record against Bayern is a good example of what I'm saying, he's scored 5 goals in 7 against them yet has still been on the losing side on every occasion and before that Dortmund actually had an okay record in that fixture especially at home.

That said I don't think we are yet ready to take advantage of any United/RVN esque stylistic clash there (unless we somehow pull off Koulibaly while Kante and/or Kova stay fit for an entire season) but I really don't think he's going to mesh in that side the way people think.

 

Good points all around but for Dortmund you have to take their business model into consideration. They actually don't try to compete with Munich for the title. They try to find a coach. /system that let's their top prospects shine the most to be able to sell them for top dollar - and would refuse a system that made them more stable but let the individuals not shine as much (say like TT did when he came here).  They got Erling and Bellingham into the shop window so that's their main aim.

They are also kinda lost after Klopp left them direction wise. Got Tuchel, moaned that he wasn't Klopp and got rid of him in reality after about 1.5 seasons. Then bought a handful of other coaches  in without  any rhyme nor reason - moaned about them not being Klopp rather sooner than later- so after 3-6 years they finally got a Frankenstein squad without any coherence - and that shows big time. In fact the reason Klopp left, and many forget about this, was that he saw the dire need to completely revamp the squad and it would be easier for the club he left instead of building a complete new squad. They actually never overhauled their squad in a meaningful way - rather dragged it out as long as possible living off their reputation they build up with Klopp and in parts with Tuchel in his first season there.

 

 

Long story short, Erling won't bring City to a whole new level as they will never (at least it's impossible for me to imagine it) build their whole system around him. He will have to adapt his style and Pep will adapt a little too. But even if City manages to stagnate result wise it would be a great / very good achievement since that's always easier said than done on the elite level. 

5 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Haaland is 21

Hazard was 20 when he carried Lillie to a title against Ancelotti's PSG.

On 13/06/2022 at 09:03, Argo said:

And it wouldn't surprise me if they become closer to looking like 'normal' teams now. Both lose what made them so formidable formidable as a unit. Infact it was rumoured Pep needed some convincing. Last time he had (on paper) such a misfit for his style was Zlatan and we know what happened there.

City barely even conceded chances last season, with Haaland they lose they first line of defense and fluid movement between the attackers. It's going to take some adapting even if Haaland lives up to his price tag from an individual point of view. Likewise at Liverpool, their success has been a large part to Firmino being a foil for Mane and Salah. If you watch their goals (especially in the 17-20 period) then the sheer amount that came due to Firmino's interplay and movement outside the box making space for those two was obscene.

If we go back a bit further United signing RVN didn't work out how it was suppose too (individually he scored goals and done well but United went from a 3 in a row title team to 1 in 5 with him around).

Although they (surely) haven't picked such a level of flop like we have I'm personally delighted both have fell into the trap of just looking at the top line. Julian Alvarez is literally a picture perfect Pep striker/false 9 and he's never going to be able to demonstrate as such with Haaland there.

I'm not sure the decline of ManU at the turn of the century can be attributed to RVP. The impending retirement of SAF created uncertainty around the club, add to this there was a very good emerging Arsenal side, and the new kid on the block with untold wealth, us! RVP was removed like a lot of players under Ferguson when he caused problems behind the scene, his cause wasn't helped by his poor injury record the previous year. Ferguson's greatest achievement  was his ability to manage the players under his care, remove the bad eggs and know which player to back(Ronaldo in the case of RVP). I wonder how he would have handled Lukaku this year, my guess is there would have been more than tea cups and boots flying his way and he would have already departed.

2 hours ago, charierre said:

I'm not sure the decline of ManU at the turn of the century can be attributed to RVP. The impending retirement of SAF created uncertainty around the club, add to this there was a very good emerging Arsenal side, and the new kid on the block with untold wealth, us! RVP was removed like a lot of players under Ferguson when he caused problems behind the scene, his cause wasn't helped by his poor injury record the previous year. Ferguson's greatest achievement  was his ability to manage the players under his care, remove the bad eggs and know which player to back(Ronaldo in the case of RVP). I wonder how he would have handled Lukaku this year, my guess is there would have been more than tea cups and boots flying his way and he would have already departed.

I did notice a change in their overall play from the Yorke/Cole partnership but granted tbf Fergie making one of his few major blunders (in letting Stam go) could have also played a part. And there was also a noticeable difference from the moment he was dropped in favour of Saha (they looked a much more fluent side at the end of 05/06).

Regarding Lukaku, I imagine there wouldn't have been a snowball in hells chance Fergie signed him certainly not for the fee required. He did a lot of character research so even if he was talked about he'd have scrapped the idea within minutes.

To think this clown is the reason we can't bring anyone in just makes everything more infuriating. 

I'll ask again, how has no one been sacked? The decision to ignore Tchouameni in favor of buying Lukaku + using Saul in the meantime is a sackable offense. 

4 hours ago, Argo said:

Hazard was 20 when he carried Lillie to a title against Ancelotti's PSG.

This doesn't sound right so I google it. Lille won 10/11 ligue 1 over montpellier. Psg was 4th that season. And Ancelotti came to psg the season after that and montpellier won the league that season. 

7 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

This doesn't sound right so I google it. Lille won 10/11 ligue 1 over montpellier. Psg was 4th that season. And Ancelotti came to psg the season after that and montpellier won the league that season. 

Sorry my mistake i got it mixed up with Carlo's first season.

I should have used the example of Mbappe at Monaco, and there's ofcourse Tibo at Leti and Ronaldo breaking our dominance at a young age.

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here you are kev, You boomer!

Sounds like things are progressing and he will be off - especially if he is willing to take a pay cut. Best to cut our losses. My only concern is that next season will be back to where we are now. Inter won’t have the money to buy Lukaku and we will be forced into another loan. 
 

“Inter are now prepared to open direct talks with Chelsea to discuss about Romelu Lukaku and loan deal details. Lukaku has held discussions with Chelsea - but it's now time for direct contact between clubs. 🔵 #CFC

Loan fee, salary and more will be discussed with Inter soon.“

https://www.chelsea-news.co/2022/06/romelu-lukakus-chelsea-departure-has-accelerated-a-lot-in-the-last-24-hours/?fbclid=IwAR1igx1r2e9-261zs2bhHDYTlcBOXNZjRn7FkZ2widxdHk7LGX7dhKM8lRc&fs=e&s=cl

I would love to see him go no matter the money. I want all weak personalities out asap.

Thomas Tuchel is understood to be in agreement and allowing Romelu Lukaku to leave will help Chelsea focus their attention on the attackers the club want to sign.

- @TeleFootball

2 hours ago, JM7 said:

Thomas Tuchel is understood to be in agreement and allowing Romelu Lukaku to leave will help Chelsea focus their attention on the attackers the club want to sign.

- @TeleFootball

Was obvious from the start, 'Club' signing all involved making scratch etc

I reckon half the support for him was scripted bots at this point!