Romelu Lukaku back to Chelsea - and gone again!

[The Don Antonio]

39 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Maybe we should just leave him out of the return games against Pool, City and the United double header.

To be honest he needs to improve his pressing off the ball. One of the reason we beat city so many times last season was that everybody pressed. Even in the Ucl final havertz , mount and Werner were constant motion. It is easier to mark a still target than a moving one . Dias and Laporte were ready for the physical battle with Lukaku . 

Pulisic would have been a great game changer but the dude is made of glass

[TheSage]

52 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Maybe we should just leave him out of the return games against Pool, City and the United double header.

It would be very weird to drop your 100m striker for the most important games though, and Lukaku seems to sulk when he is benched going by his time at Man U.  I really hopes he improves that aspect because losing such 6 pointers against rivals may undo a lot of the wins against the smaller teams.

[Argo]

He has f**ked up our borderline perfect setup in the big games, as I feared would happen.

[axman2526]

10 minutes ago, TheSage said:

It would be very weird to drop your 100m striker for the most important games though, and Lukaku seems to sulk when he is benched going by his time at Man U.  I really hopes he improves that aspect because losing such 6 pointers against rivals may undo a lot of the wins against the smaller teams.

Yeah City won the title without a striker, and us the CL without one. We certainly lack for work ethic in comparison to how much our front 3 ran in the CL final.

[Oli]

This was always going to be the difference between him and Haaland/Lewandowski.

I think he will do really well for us..but he excels in games where he runs onto the ball and finishes. In games where we are defending his general play with the ball at his feet and first touch are very bad. His main criticism was he isnt a big game player, and so far hes yet to prove otherwise. It might not cost us in the league if he can fire tons of goals..but may prove a problem in the Champions League.

[axman2526]

3 minutes ago, Oli said:

This was always going to be the difference between him and Haaland/Lewandowski.

I think he will do really well for us..but he excels in games where he runs onto the ball and finishes. In games where we are defending his general play with the ball at his feet and first touch are very bad. His main criticism was he isnt a big game player, and so far hes yet to prove otherwise. It might not cost us in the league if he can fire tons of goals..but may prove a problem in the Champions League.

I do wonder if he is too much like Hasselbaink. Amazing scorer but we won nothing with him.

[SydneyChelsea]

16 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I do wonder if he is too much like Hasselbaink. Amazing scorer but we won nothing with him.

I think the game has changed so much that no longer applies. A good striker covers all ills and his ability to bully the lesser lights elevates our ability in the league.

[axman2526]

Guess we will see. We sure did struggle against the none top 4 last season.

Already against the lesser sides (Arsenal, Spurs, Villa) with Lukaku we have a 100% record (plus Palace without him).

Let's see how we do against Saints and Brentford.

[icecoolguy22]

Should have done a lot more, not in terms of scoring but work rate. Without Mason, only Werner was pressing, Lukaku just jogged around. I know that's not his game, but yesterday was the kind of game he needed to work harder. He was in the pocket the whole game, never over powered his marker apart the one occasion Lapore got a yellow, and the infamous first touch let him down a few times we had a half chance. We were caught in between , without him we'd have players front front 3  drop deep to play out. With him, we expected he's able to hold up the ball to allow us become more direct, neither happened. If he score a brace next weekend, probably forget this City game.

[Spiller86]

25 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Should have done a lot more, not in terms of scoring but work rate. Without Mason, only Werner was pressing, Lukaku just jogged around. I know that's not his game, but yesterday was the kind of game he needed to work harder. He was in the pocket the whole game, never over powered his marker apart the one occasion Lapore got a yellow, and the infamous first touch let him down a few times we had a half chance. We were caught in between , without him we'd have players front front 3  drop deep to play out. With him, we expected he's able to hold up the ball to allow us become more direct, neither happened. If he score a brace next weekend, probably forget this City game.

Agree. Tbf though this is what you get from Lukaku. Lethal at finishing chances but a workrate that makes Jimmy Floyd look like Kante and a poor first touch. 

The biggest mistake from Tuchel was starting he and Werner together in a two. Neither are good on the ball and they didn't seem to press well together. It was actually worse once Kante went off for Havertz. So we ended up unable to win the ball back high and unable to progress the ball into the final third because both players want to have one touch in an attacking move and that is the one that takes the shot. Was bizarre from Tuchel to use this game as the time to experiment with that approach. 

[axman2526]

So basically are we saying that playing Lukaku against a top side is like us playing with 10 men and we need the rest to make up for it with work ethic and an ability to hold up the ball?

[Spiller86]

13 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So basically are we saying that playing Lukaku against a top side is like us playing with 10 men and we need the rest to make up for it with work ethic and an ability to hold up the ball?

Sort of but not quite. I am saying that the reason we bought Lukaku is to finish the one moment we get in a big game, but also to breakthrough against the poor teams. Most games it won't matter that he has some areas of weakness in his game. But in the games where it does we need to pick a team that complements his style. Noting that Mount was out that was harder but I feel like that means 2 players higher up the pitch with him to press and progress the ball and one of those players should not be Werner. We learned that the hard way today.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Spiller86

[The Brit]

Given how poor the midfield and full backs were, I’d say Lukaku shouldn’t be the main focus for criticism or scrutiny. 
I remember one poor bit of hold up play where he should have done a lot better but basically we never had the ball and the lethargic play from deep was the main issue. It’s not as if city’s defenders had the ball that much for Lukaku to press them

[The Brit]

3 hours ago, Argo said:

He has f**ked up our borderline perfect setup in the big games, as I feared would happen.

We’re doomed.

[Spiller86]

7 minutes ago, The Brit said:

Given how poor the midfield and full backs were, I’d say Lukaku shouldn’t be the main focus for criticism or scrutiny. 
I remember one poor bit of hold up play where he should have done a lot better but basically we never had the ball and the lethargic play from deep was the main issue. It’s not as if city’s defenders had the ball that much for Lukaku to press them

That's fair. Tuchel again got it wrong (not just with Werner instead of Havertz) but also picking Dave at wingback. We really needed James' ability on the ball and his crossing but also his higher energy. Kante was left to do a lot on that side because Werner is not a great presser and Dave is a bit slow these days. We needed Dave at RCB instead. 

[Bob stark]

8 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

That's fair. Tuchel again got it wrong (not just with Werner instead of Havertz) but also picking Dave at wingback. We really needed James' ability on the ball and his crossing but also his higher energy. Kante was left to do a lot on that side because Werner is not a great presser and Dave is a bit slow these days. We needed Dave at RCB instead. 

Dave played as rcb 🤔🤔 until james got injured 

[abramovich]

4 hours ago, The Brit said:

Given how poor the midfield and full backs were, I’d say Lukaku shouldn’t be the main focus for criticism or scrutiny. 
I remember one poor bit of hold up play where he should have done a lot better but basically we never had the ball and the lethargic play from deep was the main issue. It’s not as if city’s defenders had the ball that much for Lukaku to press them

Actually City defenders could have taken a bit of a nap when they had the ball in their own half, that's how much time and space they had because Lukaku never bothered to press. And City were always going to have the majority of possession, they're much better at ball retention than us, so we would have to chase them around no matter who plays.

I can actually remember off the top of my head two episodes from the first half when his bad first touch turned into a pass back to a City player and another soon after when he made a poor pass to Werner on a break. In a game where we were playing without a ball for long periods of time and had to work extremely hard defensively, it's criminal to waste rare opportunities for counter attack like that. The whole point of having a powerful centre forward who doesn't track back or press and just hangs around the center of the pitch waiting for a pass is that he could at least hold up the ball and get the attack going when we do get the ball back. He was utter crap yesterday, awkward, poor on the ball and struggling to have any impact.

Lukaku wasn't the only reason why we were poor yesterday but it was a harsh reminder why despite impressive career goal record he's not considered a world class player. Unless Tuchel finds a way to bench him in certain big games where it suits us to go without him and manages not to bruise his fragile ego, I don't see us winning anything serious with him on the team.

[venom2011]

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Dave played as rcb 🤔🤔 until james got injured 

You always wonder if people actually watch the game before speaking and then occasionally you get some hard evidence... 

Anyhoo, Lukaku was far from a big issue yesterday. You could have had prime Ronaldo Nazario upfront and it would have made little difference. I think Tuchel learned quite a bit from the defeat which is good. With the 352 it worked against a gassed Tottenham. But it requires Alonso, Azpi, Kante, Kovacic and Werner to be the major players in transition and escaping the press. Only one of those is any good on the ball - which is a problem against an impeccable press.

Also, Silva at a point shouted at Andreas because he was playing simple passes backward to Mendy instead of to him, so he can release Azpi. This - no risk football- has slowly crept into our game recently and the guilty parties need sorting out. 

[ashwin]

5 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

That's fair. Tuchel again got it wrong (not just with Werner instead of Havertz) but also picking Dave at wingback. We really needed James' ability on the ball and his crossing but also his higher energy. Kante was left to do a lot on that side because Werner is not a great presser and Dave is a bit slow these days. We needed Dave at RCB instead. 

Hmm, you did watch the game right? 😄

[Argo]

12 hours ago, The Brit said:

We’re doomed.

Record signing or not he shouldn't be immune to rotation or not playing if he's off form/the game doesn't suit him.

We had a perfect set up for big games last season and Rom's presence has compromised it somewhat. What makes City so hard to play against is they have everyone heavily involved in the build up and the off the ball work and what made us so strong against them last season is we matched that. 

However that said I wouldn't be surprised if he flat track bullys us into a title race but I don't think there's a chance of us retaining the UCL or even giving it a big shot if he plays every minute in the run. Everything i feared would happen by resigning Rom was on display yesterday and not only that Havertz is looking half the player he was at the back end of last season playing false 9 (which suited him and this squad down to the ground especially vs opponents like City).

Edited September 26, 2021 by Argo

[The Brit]

8 hours ago, abramovich said:

Actually City defenders could have taken a bit of a nap when they had the ball in their own half, that's how much time and space they had because Lukaku never bothered to press. And City were always going to have the majority of possession, they're much better at ball retention than us, so we would have to chase them around no matter who plays.

I can actually remember off the top of my head two episodes from the first half when his bad first touch turned into a pass back to a City player and another soon after when he made a poor pass to Werner on a break. In a game where we were playing without a ball for long periods of time and had to work extremely hard defensively, it's criminal to waste rare opportunities for counter attack like that. The whole point of having a powerful centre forward who doesn't track back or press and just hangs around the center of the pitch waiting for a pass is that he could at least hold up the ball and get the attack going when we do get the ball back. He was utter crap yesterday, awkward, poor on the ball and struggling to have any impact.

Lukaku wasn't the only reason why we were poor yesterday but it was a harsh reminder why despite impressive career goal record he's not considered a world class player. Unless Tuchel finds a way to bench him in certain big games where it suits us to go without him and manages not to bruise his fragile ego, I don't see us winning anything serious with him on the team.

It’s all over

[axman2526]

Just now, The Brit said:

It’s all over

[LongtimerLurker]

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Record signing or not he shouldn't be immune to rotation or not playing if he's off form/the game doesn't suit him.

We had a perfect set up for big games last season and Rom's presence has compromised it somewhat. What makes City so hard to play against is they have everyone heavily involved in the build up and the off the ball work and what made us so strong against them last season is we matched that. 

However that said I wouldn't be surprised if he flat track bullys us into a title race but I don't think there's a chance of us retaining the UCL or even giving it a big shot if he plays every minute in the run. Everything i feared would happen by resigning Rom was on display yesterday and not only that Havertz is looking half the player he was at the back end of last season playing false 9 (which suited him and this squad down to the ground especially vs opponents like City).

It's on Tuchel to recognise the issue and address it, I have no doubt he will. Whether that's rotating Lukaku out in the big games or putting a structure in place that will allow Rom to thrive like he has previously.

Either way this is still the bedding in period we haven't even had ten games with Lukaku in the team, he's still yet to full adapt to our players and they are still yet to adapt to him. 

That's the first game where we started with a 352 that Lukaku has played for us. Even with 2 10s at times he's looked starved for chances and the ones he's had he's taken. So take away a creative player and take away a player that would usually press hard out of possession and the result was always going to be this way. 

3421 remains our most successful system in recent years in the last 5 years it's won us the prem and ucl, when Conte switched to 352 in his 2nd season we finished 5th yes recruitment wasn't great etc but, it doesn't diminish from the fact that once we changed system we didn't look as good.

Context is that Conte's 3421 had somewhat been found out by his second season whereas as far as we know TT's 3421 hasn't been. 

 

 

[Ballack & Blu]

look playing Kante, Jorginho and Kova showed our hand, i like on paper Werner and Rom, but no real pressure on there defence allowed them to play it around them two with ease, really missed Mounts intensity in pressing, and Rom and Werner having no clear cut shots or even chances was a big big concern...

[Gol15]

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Record signing or not he shouldn't be immune to rotation or not playing if he's off form/the game doesn't suit him.

We had a perfect set up for big games last season and Rom's presence has compromised it somewhat. What makes City so hard to play against is they have everyone heavily involved in the build up and the off the ball work and what made us so strong against them last season is we matched that. 

However that said I wouldn't be surprised if he flat track bullys us into a title race but I don't think there's a chance of us retaining the UCL or even giving it a big shot if he plays every minute in the run. Everything i feared would happen by resigning Rom was on display yesterday and not only that Havertz is looking half the player he was at the back end of last season playing false 9 (which suited him and this squad down to the ground especially vs opponents like City).

Kai should ideally be behind Rom in a 4-4-1-1 IMO. That way you get the best of both of them. But Tuchel won't change this system.

In any case the squad needs more time together, I'm sure the same thing is true with Man City regarding Grealish.