3 minutes ago, abister1 said:

I dare say it was obvious from before he was appointed. Maybe I just see things differently but nothing in his managerial stats from Ostersund, Swansea and Brighton suggest he could be a manager for a big club as Chelsea. Not sure how they interpreted the data as obviously you can spin a particular narrative using data. 

 

I can understand giving him a shot with maybe a short term contract until we found a proper coach. His results at Brighton etc gave him 1 shot at being caretaker but the 5 year contract is ridiculous with his background.

The fact the we have one 3 consecutive wins in months is telling the entire story. no amount of spin can put a positive light on that particular piece of data

This still bothers me a bit. Not because I feel it was particularly unwarranted sacking, but of course Potter has to take some blame, but there is enough quality in that team to put the myriad of chances they create, away. There was still so much more context to this season that isn't Potter's fault. I liked the guy and think he could have done better, but I also accept that poor results will look bad on the manager. Should it? Probably not so much. The players tend to avoid blame so much of the time, which makes no sense to me. They create the chances and score goals, but if they are creating chances and don't score goals, the coach is not at fault. The same for individual defensive mistakes. I think the blame is 50/50, but often times it's always 80/20 in blaming the coach vs players. I think this season was an example of momentum not being on our side, zero pre-season for Potter, bloated squad, as well as misfortune with injuries and poor refereeing decisions that cost us points, along with chances not being converted by players. 

Edited April 4, 20233 yr by enigma

5 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Nearly 400 thousand people have been killed or injured since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.................... Pause to think about that number ................... ............... It wasn't just Roman's cash that's been targeted, VTB capital too (who I believe have invested more than Roman did in the UK) 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/administrators-appointed-vtb-capital-plc-teneo-2022-12-09/

and a host of other oligarchs like former Arsenal owner Usmanov, as well as British nationals like Graham Phillips (little known RT Propagandist).

Funny thing is as well, since the sanctions, we've not had any more chemical weapons attacks in the UK and very wealthy anonymous Russians have stopped falling out of windows or dying in mysterious ways. I personally also think it is a good thing that we don't see WMD decontamination units cleaning up radiation across London or that our water wasn't contaminated in Salisbury that could have led to thousands of deaths. You may beg to disagree and that's fine. Roman is our past, Todd is present and the future is a new manager to be decided.. again.

 

Seizing Russian assets in the UK has not done anything to stop Ukrainians being killed. All it has achieved is make boris look like he was taking a hard stances on the russkies. How is it even legal to take someone’s things because of what country they’re from and who they’re buddies with? I am yet to see the benefit of Chelsea being taken off Roman translated into Ukrainian victory.

11 minutes ago, enigma said:

This still bothers me a bit. Not because I feel it was particularly unwarranted sacking, but of course Potter has to take some blame, but there is enough quality in that team to put the myriad of chances they create, away. There was still so much more context to this season that isn't Potter's fault. I liked the guy and think he could have done better, but I also accept that poor results will look bad on the manager. Should it? Probably not so much. The players tend to avoid blame so much of the time, which makes no sense to me. They create the chances and score goals, but if they are creating chances and don't score goals, the coach is not at fault. The same for individual defensive mistakes. I think the blame is 50/50, but often times it's always 80/20 in blaming the coach vs players. I think this season was an example of momentum not being on our side, zero pre-season for Potter, bloated squad, as well as misfortune with injuries and poor refereeing decisions that cost us points, along with chances not being converted by players. 

While I concur with your reasoning, I also think we must include Boehly in the blame-game. He has bought and bought but with a North American baseball attitude where if you spend enough you will eventually find success, somehow. Some of his buys have been understandable, others not so much and many have been sadly overvalued. He hands Potter a huge squad with equally huge egos and forced GP into trying to appease somewhere in the neighbourhood of 27 players and a demanding fanbase. If you are distributing blame, perhaps the percentages should be 33/33/33 from the baseball-minded owner to Potter to the players.

46 minutes ago, Deino said:

That last line was so obvious even from the first game Potter was in charge of. The only ones that wanted Potter to stay made a lot of stuff up just so that they could see "continuity" or "move away from hiring and firing"

Also found it interesting that many of the players opinions basically echoed our concerns. That he looked way out of his depth, that he was floundering, that he was a bit of a yes man that didn't have the mentality for this kind of club.

I'm surprised he even had supporters to the very end tbh, it was all pretty obvious it would never work with him in my opinion.

39 minutes ago, Deino said:

That last line was so obvious even from the first game Potter was in charge of. The only ones that wanted Potter to stay made a lot of stuff up just so that they could see "continuity" or "move away from hiring and firing"

That last line is absolutely telling isn't it ... a top team of data analysts were put in place by Boehly/Eghbali and they couldn't find anything across Potter's 31 matches in charge to remotely justify him staying on, so he had to go. If it was there, they would have found it, and it would have been spun/leaked all over the media. The only positive the club could mention in the separation announcement was the progress to the QF of the Champions League, and they didn't dwell much on that, so I suspect they felt that was more in spite of Potter than because of him, and that therefore there was minimal risk in jettisoning him before the Real Madrid games.  Personally, I'm happy to give Potter credit for that part, but the domestic results and performances were so horrendous that they far outweigh it.

 

2 hours ago, bluehaze said:

Perfectly good English managers like who though ?. The only English managers to win anything that I can think of are Redknapp at Pompey and McClaren at Boro so that's an FA cup and league cup in 20 years maybe longer. Here off the top of my head are some English managers Bruce, Hodgson, Pardew, Allardyce, Southgate, Pearce, Ince, Parker, Lampard it's not exactly an impressive list.

If you spread it to British managers you have the likes of Moyes, Nathan Jones, Mick McCarthy played for Ireland but is very much a Yorkshire man  Rodgers, Martin O' Neill, Keane Irish but a massive figure in the English game and of course that berk Souness who can remember every single game he was involved in but has total amnesia when it comes to having a pub player play for Southampton cause he told them he was George Weah's cousin.

While there's always going to be more quality foreign managers compared to English down to shear numbers, I do think we have an issue in this country of not giving young English managers a chance compared to the other leagues around the world.  I was initially thinking of Watford that seem to pick a random foreign manager out of a hat every week.  But we probably need to point the finger more at the lower divisions rather than the premier league for not giving young English guys the chance and experience to progress up the leagues.  I'm not expecting the top teams to pick unknown Englishmen, but the fact there's no-one to pick is strange.   I mean is Eddie Howe & Graham Potter the only ones?  Plus Potter needed to go to Sweden for his chance and doesn't look like he's good enough anyway.

I think your list points out the fact that the only English guys given a chance are old has beens or ex players that have not earned the right to manage in the top divisions.  Where's the English Ralf Rangnick school or equivalent?  I just find it strange for a football mad country that while never having the best team in the world has had world class players in virtually every position over the last 20 years yet never had a manager anywhere close.  

 

2 hours ago, El regreso said:

Guys David Moyes 2.0 was generous he was worst than that.

Media hyped him up too much while at Brighton and the owners who thought this was “American Ball” fell for it.

I highly doubt Boehly even knew who Potter was before September of last year. Someone who knew football definitely adviced him to hire him. It also probably was a pr move to hire a British manager since his Americanism wasn’t sitting well with people at the time.

10 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I highly doubt Boehly even knew who Potter was before September of last year. Someone who knew football definitely adviced him to hire him. It also probably was a pr move to hire a British manager since his Americanism wasn’t sitting well with people at the time.

It wasn't just Boehly who fell for it tbf. There were plenty on here as well who suggested we hire Potter.

Doubt it was a pr move, he was probably just fooled like a few others.

We can't sack the owner, so of course when fans cotinuing to boo ( not all against Potter), Boehly found the easiest way out by sacking Potter. I recall a twitter clip after Everton game, Boehly called the game a sh1t one, maybe that was the beginning of the end. Potter's good communication skill and the ability to manage up didn't save him,  basically Boehly sacked two managers for different reasons in a single season.

21 hours ago, DarkMata said:

All season my head and heart have been at odds with each other over Potter.  My head told me he wasn't right and the lack of goals was a worry, but my heart loved the idea of a young talented English manager creating a long term dynasty of glory.   Over the past 6 months instead of any sort of improvement we have slowly dropped down the league and the head thoughts have been winning over, the heart slowing fading until finally giving up all hope on Saturday night.  Sad that its not worked out, that's football I guess, but the guy was top quality with the way he conducted himself and unlike other managers didn't kick up a stink or leave with a bad taste.   Like most have said the sacking gave me a strange sense of relief.

As for the next manager I don't know if Nagelsman is the right pick but he defiantly ticks all the right boxes for Bohley and his boards.  All I know is his teams score goals and I'm happy with that.  I don't want anymore possession based managers that apparently play attractive football because they move the ball sideways for 90 minutes.  I'd trade winning a trophy every year for a team that wins by 4 or 5 goals every 2 or 3 weeks.  Lets bring back some entertainment and excitement back to the bridge its been far too long since we've had regular edge of your seat football and enjoyment.

Excellent post, you would hope the majority of fans feel this way and can see he acted with class and dignity during a very difficult time for him. Obviously this is for fans other than the usual cretinous messes on social media, and unfortunately on here also nowadays.

Our football style has been in a funk for several years now, were mired in a tedious play to keep the ball and take no risks, defensively oriented play since Sarri came in, passing for the sake of it rather with an aim to create chances, then relying on an individual to do something, a la Hazard. Its been god awful to watch.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Excellent post, you would hope the majority of fans feel this way and can see he acted with class and dignity during a very difficult time for him

I agree. Potter always came across as a decent and likeable person, so I felt bad for him in one respect.

Unfortunately, it's a ruthless results driven business and there's no room for sentiment where big money is involved. I expect he'll find another job elsewhere soon enough that is more at his level (e.g. Crystal Palace or Leicester City).

1 minute ago, Jezz said:

I agree. Potter always came across as a decent and likeable person, so I felt bad for him in one respect.

Unfortunately, it's a ruthless results driven business and there's no room for sentiment where big money is involved. I expect he'll find another job elsewhere soon enough that is more at his level (e.g. Crystal Palace or Leicester City).

I cant remember which old manager said it but the phrase "its not if you get sacked as a manager, its when" is very apt.

While he has failed massively in the PL, it can't be denied that he did rescue our CL campaign. I don't think we were getting through the group stage after two games, and neither did many on here. I'm just saying this for the sake of getting some balanced view in the thread.

15 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

It wasn't just Boehly who fell for it tbf. There were plenty on here as well who suggested we hire Potter.

Doubt it was a pr move, he was probably just fooled like a few others.

I just don't believe an owner that wanted Ronaldo came up with Potter on his own. After Tuchel was considered being sacked, I can easily see Boehly wanting to hire an English manager as a form of olive branch to show that he respects the footballing culture in the country and his advisers probably came up with Potter. Newcastle owners did something similar with Eddie Howe to show that they weren't going to be like City owners.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Jezz said:

I agree. Potter always came across as a decent and likeable person, so I felt bad for him in one respect.

Unfortunately, it's a ruthless results driven business and there's no room for sentiment where big money is involved. I expect he'll find another job elsewhere soon enough that is more at his level (e.g. Crystal Palace or Leicester City).

He'll do ok at a place that doesn't have a very big sqad - say 15-20 --- 4-5 injuries most of the time so only 15 to pick from - not many decisions to make.

Lot's sentimentality on here...

I'm sure he's a nice guy - just a crap manager - yes part of it's down to the players and part of it's down to Todd but when you've got the "manager" playing RLC where James should be and James playing CB when the real CB is left on the bench - you're going to lose the players, dressing-room, confidence, the match and ultimately your job.

Let's hope Bruno can play the boys who "give everything" in their normal positions and we can get back to putting the ball in the net at the other end soon.

3 hours ago, Deino said:

Prime Jose Mourinho wouldn't be playing Cucurella on the field when Chilwell is fit and ready.

Chilwell was on the field. 

Last time Cucumbers played LCB he was man of the match (dortmund 2nd leg). 

Tuchel also spoke of Cucumber playing LCB

So the issue wasn’t Cucu playing in the position he did, or the players around him. It was simply a really bad individual brain fart.

 

1 hour ago, DarkMata said:

While there's always going to be more quality foreign managers compared to English down to shear numbers, I do think we have an issue in this country of not giving young English managers a chance compared to the other leagues around the world.  I was initially thinking of Watford that seem to pick a random foreign manager out of a hat every week.  But we probably need to point the finger more at the lower divisions rather than the premier league for not giving young English guys the chance and experience to progress up the leagues.  I'm not expecting the top teams to pick unknown Englishmen, but the fact there's no-one to pick is strange.   I mean is Eddie Howe & Graham Potter the only ones?  Plus Potter needed to go to Sweden for his chance and doesn't look like he's good enough anyway.

I think your list points out the fact that the only English guys given a chance are old has beens or ex players that have not earned the right to manage in the top divisions.  Where's the English Ralf Rangnick school or equivalent?  I just find it strange for a football mad country that while never having the best team in the world has had world class players in virtually every position over the last 20 years yet never had a manager anywhere close.  

 

Johnathan Woodgate, Scott Parker, both Neville brothers Gary Monk, Kevin Nolan, Gerrard Rooney didn't do a bad job at Derby. What's left if your criteria doesn't include old has been's plenty of those admittedly or ex players that have not earned the right. It's all down to attitude and unwillingness to listen you can't go from the Sky studio and do what Gary Neville did and go to Spain and not speak in the lingo it wouldn't work in any job never mind football. 

What 4-4-2 magazine said about Potter last March.

Graham Potter has had an extraordinary journey to get to where he is today, taking the long route of going to the lower tiers of Swedish football. Now he's at Brighton - and they play some of the best football in the league.

 

Potter ticks every box you'd want from a coach. His teams are resolute and solid at the back, excellent at going forward and entertaining to watch. He can seemingly work with experience or youth, getting newfound brilliance from anyone he works with - and the stats align to everything good that comes out of his players.

 

The Brighton boss is a future superstar if he isn't already one. It says a lot that the Seagulls offered him a new contract just mere games into seeing what he was doing at the club.

1 hour ago, RMH said:

While he has failed massively in the PL, it can't be denied that he did rescue our CL campaign. I don't think we were getting through the group stage after two games, and neither did many on here. I'm just saying this for the sake of getting some balanced view in the thread.

Tuchel got sacked after one game in the CL group stage. Not two. 

1 hour ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I highly doubt Boehly even knew who Potter was before September of last year. Someone who knew football definitely adviced him to hire him. It also probably was a pr move to hire a British manager since his Americanism wasn’t sitting well with people at the time.

Definitely I think there is something to that to get the media on our side they thought worst case we are around 6th fighting for too 4 even Potter thought he would be that high he just didn’t think he would be this bad at all.

6 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Tuchel got sacked after one game in the CL group stage. Not two. 

And?

4 minutes ago, RMH said:

And?

I don't think it's fair to say we wouldn't have qualified based on one poor performance. Especially with a manager that won the whole thing with us, and only lost to the eventual winners the season after. Potter from October-November was basically just playing Tuchel-ball anyway. 

The Athletic reporting senior players viewed Potter as lacking authority. 

Edited April 4, 20233 yr by Sconnie Blue