39 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

It's why I was such a big fan of Tuchel, we might not have been able to compete with City in the league but we were capable of beating every top side in Europe. We had a chance at winning pretty much every trophy. Meanwhile under Potter we're celebrating holding our own against Dortmund.

There was very much times we "celebrated" good performances in draws/defeats under Tuchel and so did he aswell.

These were his comments after a 1-1 draw at home to relegated Burnley. 

"We played a fantastic match. Of course I'm disappointed.

If we played this game 100 times, we'd win 99 times. Today we didn't win it. The second goal would have decided it. It's always possible you miss one ball, one cross, and this can happen."

There's a lot critisise Potter for right now but this narrative (implied or otherwise) that seeing positives from poor/frustrating results never happened until he shown up is utter nonsense. 

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by Argo

1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

We've been doing the short-term fix model since Abramovich took over. The only reason for our diminishing success compared to back then is the rise of clubs like Manchester City who can outspend us. Along with extremely poor recruitment from Marina after Emenalo left. But we've fixed the recruitment side of things now with Vivell in charge, Badiashile and Datro Fofana both look like extremely good value buys, jury's still out on the rest.

 

As for the sideways football, pretty much every top team plays possession based football these days. Counter attacking managers like Mourinho have seen their success fade. The difference with us however, is the recruitment. We've rarely signed players creative enough to play a possession based style effectively, which is part of the reason we look poor doing it. Though I'd argue our Champions League run under Tuchel was some of the best football we've ever played as a club, especially the 2nd leg against Real in 2021.

 

Either way, the biggest issue by far at the club by this point is Potter. There isn't an excuse for us being this bad. Man Utd were rotten to the core compared to us yet Ten Hag's managed to turn them around completely in 6 months. That's what an elite manager can do when backed, instead we sacked an elite manager for an utterly medicore one.

We've actually been doing the short term fix since Dave Sexton. Normally due to abject failure and relegation. Moaning about Abramovich changing managers on a regular basis whilst we have had an unbroken chain of success for 20 years is somewhat comical to those of us that go back to the 70s and 80s. Geoff Hurst, John Hollins, Kenny Shellito,  Danny Blanchflower, Ian Porterfield,  Dave Webb. And we're umm-ing and ah-ing over the likes of Pochettino who only reached a CL final and didn't win it.

To put it in context we sacked Ian Porterfield in 1993. Johan Cruyff was the losing European Cup Final manager. We hired Dave Webb. I doubt Cruyff would have even known who Uncle Ken was.

 

 

20 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Maybe you think it exists but it actually doesn't.

There's absolutely no evidence he was appointed because of his nationality. That's something you believe , but without anything to substantiate it.

And you don't have to bury your head and ignore something that isn't there😝😝😝

 

 

 

 

I'm not one to go to the archives and pull up proof to back a point up. If you think I'm making it up along as I go and nothing to substantiate it fair enough, your prerogative. 

I can rely on the balance of probability that there are factors that lead to every occurrence in life generally. I recall several television programs, news, media generally where the English narrative was paraded. Nobody would have said give him the Chelsea job already  cos he's English. Was along the lines of young, exciting, bla bla bla manager tipped to replace Southgate as England Manager, one of the upcoming managers doing a good job at Brighton...... Then they turn to a studio guest, what do you think, who then informs the world why GP after a spectacular job with Brighton is the future of football bla bla bla and would be able to make the step up to Chelsea manager, how Frank Lampard showed recently he could do it and GP should....... 

God, that was painful but you get the picture and if you don't, can't help you any further I'm afraid. 

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by abister1

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

I don't make up anything dude. Climb down off your high horse - people are allowed to have different perspectives and opinions - it is nothing to do with your hyperbolic "alternative reality" nonsense.

I get you don't like Potter. We are pretty much on the same page there, as frankly, as I have said multiple times, I have big concerns with him, hate his passive nature, and have not seen sufficient progress. So - despite your "end of the world" outlook, we both fundamentally agree on the manager's shortcomings at this stage of his Chelsea career. Simply put, he has not been good enough.

But.....

If you genuinely expected the new manager to come in, and get the team firing after 6 months, then I don't think you grasp the scale of the task. Our team was broken. Utterly rotten and dysfunctional, with players either not good enough or not caring enough to fight for the cause. This was as the result of YEARS worth of mismanagement and short term fixes. Plasters being put over a wound, and moving forward for short-term success.

Rightly or Wrongly, the new owners want to stop this reactive, short-term nature we have adopted and have a long-term plan. Tuchel wasnt up for the vision and new model - so he went. Potter was up for it, and the owners have backed him.....

But....

When has a team ever before successfully integrated so many new signings in such a short period of time. I can't think of any previous instances. Teams take time to build and gel, and simply throwing young players into the team and hoping it would work  - well, that's a "you problem". i.e Very unrealistic.

Todd and Co have invested in the future. This will not be a 6 mth process. It probably won't be a 1-year process. It will be a long, painful slog to get out of the rut we had fallen into for years. The same would be true for any manager who is playing the long game. To change the identity, DNA, and fabric of the team will take a long time to do.

Now....you and many vocal others on here do not think Potter is the right man for that rebuild. I also have concerns. But if this is our chance to move away from the model that has left the team rotten for the last few years, then so be it. I would rather the pain now, rather than revert to the short-term thinking of going back to a Mourinho, Conte, Tuchel type manager.

THE TLDNR

- The club has been rotten to the core for years. Stagnating on and off the pitch.

- Moving away from the old guard will take time.

- Embedding a new system will take time.

- Integrating all the new players, most of whom are young and inexperienced, will take time.

- Clearing the deadwood and cultivating a new DNA will take time.

- Potter may or may not (probably not) be the best option for the rebuild - but it is who we have. As long as I can see some progress then I will back him.

- This will take years. Not weeks or months. There will be ups (Milan, Dortmund performances were all bright) and downs (drawing to forest, losing to everton and southampton etc).

- We need more ups...but patience is a virtue.

 

 

 

I think you are wrong. How long did a good manager need to turn things around at Manchester United? They had been a mess for a much, much longer time than we had before Ten Hag came in and cleaned up shop. 

With that said: I'm glad someone at the club is taking some accountability.
Compare this to Potter waffling after the game yesterday and you realize who the winner is and who the loser is.

I would respect Potter a whole lot more if he showed accountability. At this point i'd probably still want him gone anyways because of the results but I would have a whole lot more respect for him and I would wish him all the best if he was sacked. After months and months of excuses and absolutely no accountability whatsoever despite our worst run in 4 decades I have no respect for him and i've had enough.

I suspect Chilwell and his fellow winners in the dressing room have as well.

 

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by OriginalS

There's a risk of generalising things too much when looking at history. Have Chelsea tended to fire their managers too soon? I believe yes and no. Some managers would have deserved more time, some squarely ran out of ideas. The fact that their replacements usually improved performances for a while until they themselves ran flat makes it difficult to find conclusive judgments. But it was only after the ownership change that all logic was completely thrown out the pram

1. We sack one of the best managers we ever had, after results that didn't warrant a sacking in a million years (and which were impacted by some very adverse circumstances). There's no way Roman would have sacked Tuchel after the Zagreb game, and Tuchel's attitude/character is no factor in this: I believe the stoics and the divas were always given the same amount of time by Roman. Is it possible Boehly is way more precious than him...?

2. We hire a guy to pick up these adverse circumstances who hasn't historically proven any promise to be able to deal with them. Mind-blowingly, that guy's availability was apparently even a factor in Tuchel's sacking. Despite every bit of goodwill and blind hope, he ends up being the first manager hire in Chelsea's history to not even create 5 minutes of momentum and enthusiasm. Oh, and the first manager to be given total result-independent job security. Today, I have no doubt that the owner's loyalty to Potter is based on nothing other than their own pride. 

Potter needs to go NOW, we need to think about a suitable replacement NOW. If that person is not available right now, pick any experienced interim candidate. This season's results barely matter at this point, but I believe we're running the risk of doing permanent damage to this squad. We've just experienced a transition where 70% of the defining faces of this club have been replaced. This is why Tuchel was so important, this is why replacing him with someone like Potter was so catastrophic. I have no doubt that every player (particularly the new signings) right now feel like they're part of some kind of collaboration rather than a club. They need someone to look up and hold on to NOW.

And the ownership needs to face the embarrassment - it's merely the logical consequence of their shambolic entry into this sport. Learn and grow. 

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by Luiz4Chelsea

11 minutes ago, Argo said:

There was very much times we "celebrated" good performances in draws/defeats under Tuchel and so did he aswell.

These were his comments after a 1-1 draw at home to relegated Burnley. 

"We played a fantastic match. Of course I'm disappointed.

If we played this game 100 times, we'd win 99 times. Today we didn't win it. The second goal would have decided it. It's always possible you miss one ball, one cross, and this can happen."

There's a lot critisise Potter for right now but this narrative (implied or otherwise) that seeing positives from poor/frustrating results never happened until he shown up is utter nonsense. 

That must be the third time that one quote's been dragged up in the last 10 pages LOL

17 minutes ago, Argo said:

There was very much times we "celebrated" good performances in draws/defeats under Tuchel and so did he aswell.

These were his comments after a 1-1 draw at home to relegated Burnley. 

"We played a fantastic match. Of course I'm disappointed.

If we played this game 100 times, we'd win 99 times. Today we didn't win it. The second goal would have decided it. It's always possible you miss one ball, one cross, and this can happen."

There's a lot critisise Potter for right now but this narrative (implied or otherwise) that seeing positives from poor/frustrating results never happened until he shown up is utter nonsense. 

You were Tuchels #1 fan, his biggest advocate, now you stab him in the back, what happened ? you're so treacherous.

18 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Was along the lines of young, exciting, bla bla bla manager tipped to replace Southgate as England Manager, one of the upcoming managers doing a good job at Brighton..

Is 47 considered young ?. 

19 minutes ago, Argo said:

There was very much times we "celebrated" good performances in draws/defeats under Tuchel and so did he aswell.

These were his comments after a 1-1 draw at home to relegated Burnley. 

"We played a fantastic match. Of course I'm disappointed.

If we played this game 100 times, we'd win 99 times. Today we didn't win it. The second goal would have decided it. It's always possible you miss one ball, one cross, and this can happen."

There's a lot critisise Potter for right now but this narrative (implied or otherwise) that seeing positives from poor/frustrating results never happened until he shown up is utter nonsense. 

There's putting a positive spin on a frustrating result (should City fire Pep this weekend?)

There's putting a positive spin on the odd bad performance (should we have fired Tuchel after 2-5 vs West Brom in April 2021?)

And there's putting a positive spin on the failure to show any promise.

Here's a nice template for Todd to use : not many edits required 🙂 

 

Queens Park Rangers have sacked manager Neil Critchley after just 12 games in charge at Loftus Road.

The west London club have gone 10 Championship games without a win and are 17th in the table, eight points above the relegation zone.

Critchley, 44, was appointed on a three-and-a-half-year deal in December after Michael Beale left for Rangers.

He won his first game against Preston, but has only picked up five points from the 30 available since then.

Rangers took the decision following Saturday's 3-1 defeat at third-placed Middlesbrough, and Critchley's assistants Mike Garrity and Iain Brunskill have also left the club.

QPR chief executive Lee Hoos said it was "hugely disappointing to have to make such a decision" so early in Critchley's tenure.

"However, after seeing the team slip from play-off contenders to one being drawn into a relegation battle, the board [of directors] felt it had to act,"

"There is no doubt Neil inherited a difficult situation when he joined and we would like to acknowledge his superb work ethic and professionalism throughout our dealings.

"He is a fantastic man and we have no doubts he will go on to be a success elsewhere, just as he was at Blackpool."

 

His record: played 12 won 1 drawn 5 lost 6.

Potter's last 12 ... won 2 drawn 4 lost 6 ...  which is hardly materially different.

QPR seemingly have higher expectations of their manager than Chelsea LOL

 

16 minutes ago, coco said:

You were Tuchels #1 fan, his biggest advocate, now you stab him in the back, what happened ? you're so treacherous.

What? I'm just pointing out every manager had their moments they seek out positives in negative results.

If you prefer I'll roll out a Pep or Jose quote after similar circumstances next time?

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by Argo

Just now, Argo said:

What? I'm just pointing out every manager had their moments they seek out positives in negative results.

If you prefer I'll roll out a Pep or Jose next time?

Just winding you up.😉

 

31 minutes ago, abister1 said:

I'm not one to go to the archives and pull up proof to back a point up. If you think I'm making it up along as I go and nothing to substantiate it fair enough, your prerogative. 

I can rely on the balance of probability that there are factors that lead to every occurrence in life generally. I recall several television programs, news, media generally where the English narrative was paraded. Nobody would have said give him the Chelsea job already  cos he's English. Was along the lines of young, exciting, bla bla bla manager tipped to replace Southgate as England Manager, one of the upcoming managers doing a good job at Brighton...... Then they turn to a studio guest, what do you think, who then informs the world why GP after a spectacular job with Brighton is the future of football bla bla bla and would be able to make the step up to Chelsea manager, how Frank Lampard showed recently he could do it and GP should....... 

God, that was painful but you get the picture and if you don't, can't help you any further I'm afraid. 

Yes it was painful!

So our data driven owners decided to ignore the data about how poor English managers are and hire Potter cos he's an  Englishman ?

Still not convinced, but that's football. Thanks for your reply 

 

2 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Yes it was painful!

So our data driven owners decided to ignore the data about how poor English managers are and hire Potter cos he's an  Englishman ?

Still not convinced, but that's football. Thanks for your reply 

 

That's the contradiction, the data did not back the appointment nor back the continuation. 

Therefore it must have been emotion backed. What emotions or what stirred those emotions. 

I guess in a forum we have different views as in life. It sparks good discourse and always a learning opportunity so all good man.

48 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Coming back to Potter ... it is really irritating that he hasn't been able to take 3 points off Fulham, West Ham and Southampton in our last 3 games. If he had, we'd only be 3 points behind Newcastle and would be right back in the Top 4 race with Tottenham in our sights and up next ... 

This is what concerns me the most. If we were still dropping points to the teams in the top 8 it wouldn't be half as bad but we can't even win the winnable games. I really hope we can beat spurs because at the moment the players' confidence look shattered and a win like that is really what's needed to lift the spirits of the players and the fans.

12 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Here's a nice template for Todd to use : not many edits required 🙂 

 

Queens Park Rangers have sacked manager Neil Critchley after just 12 games in charge at Loftus Road.

The west London club have gone 10 Championship games without a win and are 17th in the table, eight points above the relegation zone.

Critchley, 44, was appointed on a three-and-a-half-year deal in December after Michael Beale left for Rangers.

He won his first game against Preston, but has only picked up five points from the 30 available since then.

Rangers took the decision following Saturday's 3-1 defeat at third-placed Middlesbrough, and Critchley's assistants Mike Garrity and Iain Brunskill have also left the club.

QPR chief executive Lee Hoos said it was "hugely disappointing to have to make such a decision" so early in Critchley's tenure.

"However, after seeing the team slip from play-off contenders to one being drawn into a relegation battle, the board [of directors] felt it had to act,"

"There is no doubt Neil inherited a difficult situation when he joined and we would like to acknowledge his superb work ethic and professionalism throughout our dealings.

"He is a fantastic man and we have no doubts he will go on to be a success elsewhere, just as he was at Blackpool."

 

His record: played 12 won 1 drawn 5 lost 6.

Potter's last 12 ... won 2 drawn 4 lost 6 ...  which is hardly materially different.

QPR seemingly have higher expectations of their manager than Chelsea LOL

 

I never thought I'd see the day when we were compared to QPR 😆

By definition a coach is supposed to improve players. I can't see a single one of our players that have improved under him. I understand giving a coach time, but 6 months and no noticeable improvements in any players? Some have kept their levels like Silva, Kepa and I can't think of anymore could be maybe one or two others. 

Mount was already out of form but doesn't look half the player he was under Lamps or TT. When everyone else around him didn't look as good under those two coaches Mount was always the constant. Kova tbf has been injured but the games I've seen him under Potter he's looked beyond average. Chalobah unbeaten at Stamford Bridge until the Potter effect. Havertz whilst inconsistent showed up occasionally for Lamps and TT, under GP he's practically a ghost. 

Cucurella and Sterling looked good under TT and KK relatively decent, since Potter came in and played Sterling out of position his form and confidence fell of. Sure he looked decent in the last game but there's a big gap even taking into consideration injury between his level at the start of the season and where he's been playing at.

The list of players goes on and on, at the very minimum if you can't improve the whole team within 6 months, you should at least have a good handful of players that are improving.

Enzo, Felix and Badiashile all look good now because they're new. A few months with Potter and let's see, because surely that's the proof in the pudding. If the new signings form starts to dip and stay at ground level after promising starts there is only one common denominator.

As much as I am Potter out, I can't help but admit that despite him showing literally nothing to believe he's the right man for the job. The lack of a real number 9 remains a relevant excuse. The give him time excuse though I find underwhelming because it doesn't take 6 months to see some form of improvement individually or collectively.

Ah someone of the names put forward.

Poch. Really? Some of you want an ex spud, who managed to lose a one horse race to a bunch of Leicester journeymen, who is the only recent PSG manager to fail to win the French league? 

Brendan? That same chap many of you took he pi$$ out of for years, calling him a bunch of funny names? You think that guy is a winner?

I get why many are unhappy with Potter and putting all the blame at his feet, but change just for the sake of change?

7 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Poch. Really? Some of you want an ex spud, who managed to lose a one horse race to a bunch of Leicester journeymen....

Wrong! It was this little fella that lost it for them.....

It might sound way off to some, but bare me out, were all expecting small progressive steps in our performances and results, but it's quiet possible that an out of form team can click together in one game, and then go on a good run, sometimes it happens with a new manager, or new players, or a change in tactics or formation. A most memorable example was when Conte was manager, we were on a very poor run, we went to Arsenal, was 3-0 down and Conte changed the formation in defence and we came back to 3-3, then we went on our best ever premier league win streak and won the league. 

Axeman, 

5 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Ah someone of the names put forward.

Poch. Really? Some of you want an ex spud, who managed to lose a one horse race to a bunch of Leicester journeymen, who is the only recent PSG manager to fail to win the French league? 

Brendan? That same chap many of you took he pi$$ out of for years, calling him a bunch of funny names? You think that guy is a winner?

I get why many are unhappy with Potter and putting all the blame at his feet, but change just for the sake of change?

JT is at the club isn't he? That would be my interim manager while Todd talks to Steve Holland for the summer. If he wants to talk to another manager, Steve Cooper has done wonders with Forrest. Those are my outsiders. Poch can jog back to white heart fail, I'd love Carlo hand on heart. Brilliant manager. 

1 minute ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Axeman, 

JT is at the club isn't he? That would be my interim manager while Todd talks to Steve Holland for the summer. If he wants to talk to another manager, Steve Cooper has done wonders with Forrest. Those are my outsiders. Poch can jog back to white heart fail, I'd love Carlo hand on heart. Brilliant manager. 

Think JT deserves better than this group of players though.

5 minutes ago, Mod said:

Wrong! It was this little fella that lost it for them.....

You sure I was not the ref who's job it was to make sure Spurs won "the battle of the bridge"? What was his name? Twatenberg?

Hopefully, the server holds up tomorrow when Potter gets the Tin tack!

2 minutes ago, Mod said:

Hopefully, the server holds up tomorrow when Potter gets the Tin tack!

I've had the fireworks waiting for 3 months now.