2 minutes ago, Deino said:

We are 9th. If 70% of the problems have to do with players, we should expect bottom table form or even considering relegation at this point because according to you we will need to move at least 6 players out and bring in more players because Potter's hand is being tied and we are at a standstill with this sh*t football. 

We aren't far from bottom table form though and we just drew to a relegation fodder team. 

1 minute ago, Deino said:

But both of these managers still manage to win trophies and leave us at least in respectable places. 

My point is that even under some of the top managers, we still see these same inconsistent performances. 

James and Chilwell's main influence on the team isn't their level of skill, but rather how they set the tempo for the whole team. Shuttle running up and down the flanks for every single minute they are on the pitch - no matter how things are going for the team overall - drives the rest of the team forward through thick and thin.

Without them, the mental resilience of this team is appalling.

Ten Hag  had the balls to get rid of Rinaldo and show to who is boss 

Michel Arteta got rid of Aubameyang to   show whos boss 

Potter keeps them all happy and were a shambles 

 

 

The first half was pedestrian with zero creativity and a lucky goal to paper over the cracks.  Our dominance was down to Forest letting us have the ball, but the 2nd half when they decided to up the intensity we just had no more levels to go up. The reaction from the players was abysmal with zero fight or willingness to win individual battles.  On top of that we don’t seem to have any set routines or link ups between players when we do have the ball.  We are completely devoid of ideas.  
We are playing like a team that’s come to the end of a manager’s tenure, not one that’s just started. We need 11 £100m players not 1.

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by DarkMata

1 hour ago, Argo said:

I mean there's a lot of things to do about right now without making things up.

Bournemouth did outplay us in the second half.

We are pretty bad at away matches and the big ones are coming...

4 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

We aren't far from bottom table form though and we just drew to a relegation fodder team. 

There in lies the problem. It's not about faith or patience. Numbers never lie. 

We are closer to relegation than we are from top of the table. If we lose the next 4 games, we are smack dabbed in a relegation battle. 

9 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I mean we saw the same thing under Sarri and Conte even. 

Agreed. I'm not even sure it was the same group of players then!

Honestly think it is just as important to recruit for mentality as it is to recruit for skill. 

57 minutes ago, Lang7 said:

There’s a snobby, dare I say cult-like, perception of TT in the Chelsea fanbase. He took us on a fantastic run for 4 months and won the Champions League.
Besides that, what has he done in the rest of his career to suggest he’s “elite”?

I'm sorry but the recency bias here is too strong. TT had us top of the table in his first full season after a difficult fixture list to start the season. This off the back of a UCL win. It only really started to come apart when he lost nearly half his champions league winning spine to injuries (Kova, Kante, James and  Chilwell).

Not to mention the war, sanctions, change in ownership and divorce. Normally employees in almost any field of work don't deal with this level of instability. Most definitely the worst possible situation for him personally. Yet he still took us to a top 4 finish, 2 domestic cup finals and 2 trophies won including the final piece of silverwear for the club to complete the all time set. Add in the fact he out coached all his opponents in cup matches (Mendy and Co let him down from the ucl). 

Tuchel doesn't have a cult following, he has fans that he rightly earned through his achievements. To say he isn't elite is disrespectful of what he achieved at this club in such a short period of time. He took this club to a level which allowed them to compete with any club across 90 minutes. Including Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool the two teams we seek to be like.

He's the first coach to go to back to back UCL finals with two different teams. There's a reason why that hadn't be done before. It's not easy....you have to be at the top of your game as a coach.

The fact remains the same he wasn't sacked for sporting performance, but for a lack of compatability with the new owners. TT is far from perfect, he's still the best coach on the market right now. 

The difference between TT and Potter is our forwards couldn't finish under TT, but at least we made chances. Under Potter we create virtually nothing. Now perhaps people see just how important Timo was to our playstyle. Even without scoring, he was stretching the play running in behind and creating space for others.

Our biggest mistake imo was signing Lukaku in hindsight had we backed the system built in that ucl win and signed a player more like Sterling over Lukaku perhaps we wouldn't have regressed as bad as we did. The midfield will always remain an issue, yet they can't be completely blamed this a group of players that have made top 4 for the past 4 seasons, contested multiple cup finals and are the current reigning world champions. 

Moving back to the point of my post, Thomas Tuchel is an elite coach and recency bias has imo clouded your judgement.

48 minutes ago, smileysmiles said:

Did he just say unfair to take the 3 points.

Yes, he said it would have been unfair if we had won. Can't accuse him of being dishonest.

41 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

We aren't far from bottom table form though and we just drew to a relegation fodder team. 

At the beginning of the season I thought we would end up 8th - 10th. I'm thinking more like 12th now at this rate.  I liked Potter because his Brighton team played attractive football. They didn't score enough goals but had an attractive style. I also believe in a longer term project restructuring the set up of the team. But I am starting to wonder if it's all a bit too big for Potter and his backroom. We have so few players capable of playing an energetic 90 mins. 

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by WhiteWall

40 minutes ago, Fatty_Speeding said:

James and Chilwell's main influence on the team isn't their level of skill, but rather how they set the tempo for the whole team. Shuttle running up and down the flanks for every single minute they are on the pitch - no matter how things are going for the team overall - drives the rest of the team forward through thick and thin.

Without them, the mental resilience of this team is appalling.

During commentary that tw@t Tyler said that in 42 games the two of them have actually played on the pitch at the same time in 2 matches.

 

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by WhiteWall

1 hour ago, Argo said:

I mean there's a lot of things to do about right now without making things up.

I honestly thought they did. We were good for 24 mins, but Bournemouth had the better of the match. 
 

Regarding today, would love to know how many sprints Chelsea players made, and how that compares to the opposition and other teams. 

7 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I'm sorry but the recency bias here is too strong. TT had us top of the table in his first full season after a difficult fixture list to start the season. This off the back of a UCL win. It only really started to come apart when he lost nearly half his champions league winning spine to injuries (Kova, Kante, James and  Chilwell).

Not to mention the war, sanctions, change in ownership and divorce. Normally employees in almost any field of work don't deal with this level of instability. Most definitely the worst possible situation for him personally. Yet he still took us to a top 4 finish, 2 domestic cup finals and 2 trophies won including the final piece of silverwear for the club to complete the all time set. Add in the fact he out coached all his opponents in cup matches (Mendy and Co let him down from the ucl). 

Tuchel doesn't have a cult following, he has fans that he rightly earned through his achievements. To say he isn't elite is disrespectful of what he achieved at this club in such a short period of time. He took this club to a level which allowed them to compete with any club across 90 minutes. Including Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool the two teams we seek to be like.

He's the first coach to go to back to back UCL finals with two different teams. There's a reason why that hadn't be done before. It's not easy....you have to be at the top of your game as a coach.

The fact remains the same he wasn't sacked for sporting performance, but for a lack of compatability with the new owners. TT is far from perfect, he's still the best coach on the market right now. 

The difference between TT and Potter is our forwards couldn't finish under TT, but at least we made chances. Under Potter we create virtually nothing. Now perhaps people see just how important Timo was to our playstyle. Even without scoring, he was stretching the play running in behind and creating space for others.

Our biggest mistake imo was signing Lukaku in hindsight had we backed the system built in that ucl win and signed a player more like Sterling over Lukaku perhaps we wouldn't have regressed as bad as we did. The midfield will always remain an issue, yet they can't be completely blamed this a group of players that have made top 4 for the past 4 seasons, contested multiple cup finals and are the current reigning world champions. 

Moving back to the point of my post, Thomas Tuchel is an elite coach and recency bias has imo clouded your judgement.

I wanted to type out the same thing but it's going to be way too repetitive at this point. 

I have no idea why we are still bringing up the topic of past coaches when the problem is our current coach isn't good enough yet. 

Say we all agree the players are the problem, does Potter immediately gets no accountability or responsibility even if it meant we get relegated? We are not even at the halfway point of the season. 

12 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

During commentary that tw@t Tyler said that in 42 games the two of them have actually played on the pitch at the same time is 2 matches.

 

Horrific statistic, but doesn't surprise me considering the long-term injuries they both seem to keep on picking up.

16 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I'm sorry but the recency bias here is too strong. TT had us top of the table in his first full season after a difficult fixture list to start the season. This off the back of a UCL win. It only really started to come apart when he lost nearly half his champions league winning spine to injuries (Kova, Kante, James and  Chilwell).

Not to mention the war, sanctions, change in ownership and divorce. Normally employees in almost any field of work don't deal with this level of instability. Most definitely the worst possible situation for him personally. Yet he still took us to a top 4 finish, 2 domestic cup finals and 2 trophies won including the final piece of silverwear for the club to complete the all time set. Add in the fact he out coached all his opponents in cup matches (Mendy and Co let him down from the ucl). 

Tuchel doesn't have a cult following, he has fans that he rightly earned through his achievements. To say he isn't elite is disrespectful of what he achieved at this club in such a short period of time. He took this club to a level which allowed them to compete with any club across 90 minutes. Including Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool the two teams we seek to be like.

He's the first coach to go to back to back UCL finals with two different teams. There's a reason why that hadn't be done before. It's not easy....you have to be at the top of your game as a coach.

The fact remains the same he wasn't sacked for sporting performance, but for a lack of compatability with the new owners. TT is far from perfect, he's still the best coach on the market right now. 

The difference between TT and Potter is our forwards couldn't finish under TT, but at least we made chances. Under Potter we create virtually nothing. Now perhaps people see just how important Timo was to our playstyle. Even without scoring, he was stretching the play running in behind and creating space for others.

Our biggest mistake imo was signing Lukaku in hindsight had we backed the system built in that ucl win and signed a player more like Sterling over Lukaku perhaps we wouldn't have regressed as bad as we did. The midfield will always remain an issue, yet they can't be completely blamed this a group of players that have made top 4 for the past 4 seasons, contested multiple cup finals and are the current reigning world champions. 

Moving back to the point of my post, Thomas Tuchel is an elite coach and recency bias has imo clouded your judgement.

Agree with this 100%. The football towards the end of his reign was turgid and boring, and he seemed to have been bombed because he didn't want to get involved in the boardroom deals for platers. Of course there will be more to it than that but it's an irony now as we seem to have a backroom that would grace an NFL franchise. 

48 minutes ago, Deino said:

But both of these managers still manage to win trophies and leave us at least in respectable places. 

Both these managers had much better players at their disposal. A younger Kante, Hazard at his best, Cesc, Rudiger, Azpi etc. at their best. It has been a slow rot that probably started when Hazard left and was replaced with Pulisic.

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by forbzy

19 minutes ago, Deino said:

I wanted to type out the same thing but it's going to be way too repetitive at this point. 

I have no idea why we are still bringing up the topic of past coaches when the problem is our current coach isn't good enough yet. 

Say we all agree the players are the problem, does Potter immediately gets no accountability or responsibility even if it meant we get relegated? We are not even at the halfway point of the season. 

I think it will be interesting to see how many of the current starters are still in the first 11 by the end of January. Whoever is the manager, it looks like the new owners are bringing in a lot of new players, and I suspect they will want to see them get minutes sooner rather than later

51 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Both these managers had much better players at their disposal. A younger Kante, Hazard at his best, Cesc, Rudiger, Azpi etc. at their best. It has been a slow rot that probably started when Hazard left and was replaced with Pulisic.

That slow rot has been pretty slow. Drogba/Costa were not replaced with equal or better players, neither was JT, nor Hazard, nor Lampard. It’s been hard to get too excited by the acquisitions in the last few years. Made worse by Haaland choosing City, he could have gone to Spain and broken Messi’s and Ronaldo’s records. 

Been thinking of posting on here for a while, this thread has compelled me to do it!  I can't believe the hate being directed at Potter!!!!

Lets put a few things into perspective here!

1. We've been banned from buying players twice in two years, the second time we were banned from just about everything!

2. When we have been able to buy we've bought dog sh*te - its not Potters fault we've wasted hundreds of millions of pounds on Lukaku, Werner, Ziyech, Aubameyang, etc etc

3. This club has been mis-managed for a few seasons - now we are simply reaping the rewards

4. The injury list is and has been for a while horrendous!  Potter hasn't once yet been able to pick anything like his best team!

5. This season is f*cke up because of the World Cup, Potter hasn't even seen most of his first team for over a month!

6. Potter has still only had very few games (and very little time) to work with the sh*te he has

7. We weren't exactly pulling up trees under Tuchel (again because of the situations we've been in over the last couple of years), lets all remember we had been thrashed at LEEDS!! and soundly beaten at the home of perhaps the worst club in the division SOUTHAMPTON as well as losing to minnows ZAGREB!! under Touchel.

Can we put this into some perspective please!  NOBODY is going to sort out this mess in a matter of 10 games or so!!! Anybody that thinks this is a short fix isn't thinking very deeply.

Finally lets all remember that Arteta was bottom of the league with Arsenal in his early days and a LOT of Arsenal fans wanted him gone............I wonder how they feel now!?

 

We simply cannot keep swapping managers every few months to fix this!!

2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Bournemouth did outplay us in the second half.

Sorry but they didn’t 

 

Already running out of words to describe these bunch of players and manager, apart from bunch of words start with C, F or S. Just like the Bourmouth game, when the opposition decided to take us on, they are well matched if not better than us, that's how much we have fallen in the past 6 months. None of the players and manager know a thing about breaking down a defence, we had two centre backs passing around in the center circle with 8 other players stand like statues in front of them. Everyone knows Forest's strength ( limited as it is), we had warning shots from the first 10 minutes, yet fail to deal with their fast and direct counter for the rest of the game. Awful way to concede that corner goal, rarely see a goal like that at this level when the first header was cleared, just need the GK or a big defender to contest it, all we got was Pullisic by himself fallen down, and defence line did not even step up to create offside. We had the longest rest of all teams, no excuse for running out of gas or whatever fitness related reasons. I heard we signed some exciting youngsters, saw nobody like that either. 2023 will see a lot of changes, but Chelsea will still be sh1t.

1 hour ago, Deino said:

I wanted to type out the same thing but it's going to be way too repetitive at this point. 

I have no idea why we are still bringing up the topic of past coaches when the problem is our current coach isn't good enough yet. 

Say we all agree the players are the problem, does Potter immediately gets no accountability or responsibility even if it meant we get relegated? We are not even at the halfway point of the season. 

The depressing thing today is that all us armchair managers could see we needed to change things before they scored - as they did from HT. Sadly Potter made a like for like change swapping Zakaria for Kova. Why not keep both on to make the midfield more solid! Instead he eventually reacted and made system changes when it was too late. I thought he was smart enough to be proactive rather than reactive but I’m not sure. 

8 minutes ago, Petworth Chelsea Fan said:

Sorry but they didn’t 

 

yes they did, sorry but what was you watching . also 1st half was hardly a great half ..all the ball but how many shots on target .we need a clear out of players and a new manager.i believe in giving managers a chance , but when they have run out of ideas or have none, time to go.