9 hours ago, timetowaste said:

So you're saying a better manager wouldn't have won us an extra 8/9 points minimum this season? Games where we've lost to Brentford, Forest, Wolves and Everton, dropped points to Arsenal from 2-0 up and drawn 0-0 against Bournemouth. If we had, then we would be in with a shout of top 4 you f**king idiot.

And you think Liverpool, City, and Arsenal can't make this argument? All of them have dropped points in silly games they should've won. That's football, the fact is we didn't win those games. 

Our poor finishing has cost us in numerous games but guess what, we've been having these problems since we had that restart under Lampard 5 years ago. 

Plus momentum changes, if we did pickup some wins earlier in the season, we probably would've lost other games that we managed to win because our boys can't seem to handle pressure at the moment. Looking back on the table and playing should've would've could've is a really silly way of looking at things. 

Ideally, I'd wait until the end of the season and see where we finish under Pochettino before making a decision on his future.

I think if we finish up with 60 points or more at the end of the season, I'd regard that as progress after recording 25 points in the first half of the season.

13 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Also as I've said previously, this is not a Lampard -> Tuchel situation. Tuchel had Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, Rudiger, Silva, Giroud. Settled experienced figureheads. Even the likes of Mount and James had already a season under their belt and looked promising under Lampard. Tuchel did an amazing job and I'll always love him to death for it but no manager is going to turn all these players who have barely played together into superstars overnight and you're delusional if you genuinely believe that.

That would possibly have been a valid excuse if we had something even resembling a structure and coherence.

Anyone can watch a random game of ours under Pochettino and conclude inside five minutes that there is no structure to us. And since thats the case one can also readily conclude that just about any manager who can organize a team as a coherent unit would improve us tenfold.

Incidentally he failed at precisely the same things at PSG so there's no hope of him changing. Keeping Poch on is just postponing the inevitable at this point. Hopefully Caicedo, Enzo and the others aren't completely ruined by the time he goes. He's well on his way to ruining them though.

 

1 minute ago, OriginalS said:

That would possibly have been a valid excuse if we had something even resembling a structure and coherence.

Anyone can watch a random game of ours under Pochettino and conclude inside five minutes that there is no structure to us. And since thats the case one can also readily conclude that just about any manager who can organize a team as a coherent unit would improve us tenfold.

Incidentally he failed at precisely the same things at PSG so there's no hope of him changing. Keeping Poch on is just postponing the inevitable at this point. Hopefully Caicedo, Enzo and the others aren't completely ruined by the time he goes. He's well on his way to ruining them though.

 

Okay, and like I've said, you'll be saying the same stuff with the next manager.

I've heard this structure debate with every single manager we've had, even Tuchel. The bloke has had less time than AVB, imagine that? I would love to know who exactly is going to come in right now and turn things around. 

6 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Okay, and like I've said, you'll be saying the same stuff with the next manager.

I've heard this structure debate with every single manager we've had, even Tuchel. The bloke has had less time than AVB, imagine that? I would love to know who exactly is going to come in right now and turn things around. 

Not if the frauds in charge can actually make a decent appointment for once.

The much hailed Caicedo-Enzo pivot that was supposed to be one of the very best in the entire league is getting so overrun that we've conceded almost 60 attempts in two away games against a poor side at Old Trafford and yesterday against a good one. Its a shambles and you know it.

There's no reason to feel sorry for Pochettino with the worlds most expensive midfield at his disposal and experienced CBs behind them thats generally been fit for the entire season.

 

6 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Not if the frauds in charge can actually make a decent appointment for once.

The much hailed Caicedo-Enzo pivot that was supposed to be one of the very best in the entire league is getting so overrun that we've conceded almost 60 attempts in two away games against a poor side at Old Trafford and yesterday against a good one. Its a shambles and you know it.

There's no reason to feel sorry for Pochettino with the worlds most expensive midfield at his disposal and experienced CBs behind them thats generally been fit for the entire season.

 

Okay, list some names then? 

Pochettino wasn't my main choice before the season started, but he was the best one available at the time, Nagelsman was a nightmare to deal with, Luis Enrique? Poch seemed like the right fit at the time hence why the owners picked him. My main target? I wanted to give Zidane a try. Many on the forum want DeZerbi, but he's not doing so great either is he? 

7 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Okay, list some names then? 

Lopetegui, Flick or even Conte, Mourinho if one wants to go for a short term fix to structural and mentality issues.

I just want to see some structured passages of play. We're 7 months into Poch's tenancy and when we go on the pitch its like he just picks the 11 and says "go enjoy yourself lads". 

2 hours ago, dkw said:

Since Klopp kicked off about Tierney and VAR they have had a ridiculous amount of decisions go there way, so I`m not sure thats right.

They've had a ridiculous amount of decisions since VAR actually failed and gave a decision that they didn't mean to, not just got one wrong. If managers want to put pressure on officials, I think its much more impactful on the lead up to games rather than reacting after.

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

And you think Liverpool, City, and Arsenal can't make this argument? All of them have dropped points in silly games they should've won. That's football, the fact is we didn't win those games. 

Our poor finishing has cost us in numerous games but guess what, we've been having these problems since we had that restart under Lampard 5 years ago. 

Plus momentum changes, if we did pickup some wins earlier in the season, we probably would've lost other games that we managed to win because our boys can't seem to handle pressure at the moment. Looking back on the table and playing should've would've could've is a really silly way of looking at things. 

I get what you mean but I'd say the difference is those results have been anomalies for the clubs you've mentioned, with us it's expected now and that's a precedent that's been set by the manager. I've seen nothing from Pochettino to suggest that he can take us back to where we need to be.

We've witnessed in those games I've mentioned Poch going in with a plan A and that's it, if things don't go our way we're screwed 9 times out of 10.

33 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

I get what you mean but I'd say the difference is those results have been anomalies for the clubs you've mentioned, with us it's expected now and that's a precedent that's been set by the manager.

It's the precedent set by the fact we don't have players remotely as good as City, Arsenal or Liverpool.

I rarely agree with What's_The_Mata but it is amusing, in a gallows humour kind of way, that Broja, a home grown player, was originally for sale at 50 m and now there don't seem to be any takers on a 5m loan only.

Life certainly has its ups and downs.

43 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

I get what you mean but I'd say the difference is those results have been anomalies for the clubs you've mentioned, with us it's expected now and that's a precedent that's been set by the manager. I've seen nothing from Pochettino to suggest that he can take us back to where we need to be.

We've witnessed in those games I've mentioned Poch going in with a plan A and that's it, if things don't go our way we're screwed 9 times out of 10.

Expected? 

Since 1st December in the league we have

Lost to Everton away at the beginning of Dec and lost to Wolves away on Christmas eve 

We've beaten Sheffield united, palace, Luton, Brighton and fulham.

I'm a lot less afraid of those teams now than I was 2 months ago. 

13 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Am I mental or is Jose coming back a no brainer?

You're mental....... I don't think the results would be much different tbh, other than conceding less goals and have some structure in the middle of the park.  The forward line would still be useless.  On the plus side it would be entertaining at least, although the young teenage fans would soon get bored if the results didn't turn around....and then the Chelsea circus will continue.     

1 minute ago, CFCCAN said:

You're mental....... I don't think the results would be much different tbh, other than conceding less goals and have some structure in the middle of the park.  The forward line would still be useless.  On the plus side it would be entertaining at least, although the young teenage fans would soon get bored if the results didn't turn around....and then the Chelsea circus will continue.     

We probably won't win the league with Poch. 

We definitely won't win the league with Jose. 

 I'm fully on the give Poch 2 years and see what happens. I don't love him, but he's not going to get us relegated. And so if we are still loitering around mid table next season then it's on him. 

I thought the same with Potter, until I began to believe we might be in a relegation scrap. 

He isnt the right fit. Same as Potter wasnt the right fit. 

He is obviously not a bad manager, but he isnt performing here at all. When you think of how aggresive that spurs team was, they would mix it with anyone, this group of players is not for Pochettino. 

The trouble we have now is so many big clubs are wanting a manager in the next 2 seasons that we are a very unattractive option. 

Liverpool, Barcelona, and then United, Real, and possibly Bayern all could open up sooner rather than later. 

So sacking Pochettino isnt straight forward. 

We need someone with energy and a real point to prove. The next Mourinho or Klopp.

Xabi Alonso, Amorin, De Zerbi. Someone of that ilk. 

Not more also rans, that are just happy to make a carabao cup semi final.

1st piece of the puzzle is getting the right manager in, and it's clear this ownership have yet to get this right.

31 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Expected? 

Since 1st December in the league we have

Lost to Everton away at the beginning of Dec and lost to Wolves away on Christmas eve 

We've beaten Sheffield united, palace, Luton, Brighton and fulham.

I'm a lot less afraid of those teams now than I was 2 months ago. 

But were you surprised we lost to Everton and Wolves? I wasn't, a few years ago we would be livid, now it's 'well we lost to Everton and Wolves but at least we beat Luton and Sheffield United' and that's because Poch has put the standards in the bin, both followed the same script so many of these winnable games.

I wouldn't advocate sacking Poch at this point.

Happy to wait until 5.31pm on 19th May.

10 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

But were you surprised we lost to Everton and Wolves? I wasn't, a few years ago we would be livid, now it's 'well we lost to Everton and Wolves but at least we beat Luton and Sheffield United' and that's because Poch has put the standards in the bin, both followed the same script so many of these winnable games.

Since 2010 Everton have beaten us 11 times out of 18 at Goodison. So you've spent a lot of time being livid in the last 13 years. 

And I think I'd have expected a draw or loss away to Wolves on Christmas eve in every season since 2010 too. 

But its not just the results, its the way we are playing in these games that's the problem, were barely even able to compete against these teams, teams we should at the bare minimum be on a level with. We were completely outplayed by a Middlesborough side missing more players through injury than we were, Poch made no impact on the game even though we weren't able to lay a glove on them.

Thats not just a one off, its happened in loads of games where he just cant impact on them, either from the start or during the actual match.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

But its not just the results, its the way we are playing in these games that's the problem, were barely even able to compete against these teams, teams we should at the bare minimum be on a level with. We were completely outplayed by a Middlesborough side missing more players through injury than we were, Poch made no impact on the game even though we weren't able to lay a glove on them.

Thats not just a one off, its happened in loads of games where he just cant impact on them, either from the start or during the actual match.

Completely outplayed is far-fetched. We should've won the game and it was an embarrassing defeat but they had one chance, scored, and sat in their half for the rest of the game. Palmer could've bagged a hat trick in the first half. 

 

3 hours ago, Jezz said:

Ideally, I'd wait until the end of the season and see where we finish under Pochettino before making a decision on his future.

I think if we finish up with 60 points or more at the end of the season, I'd regard that as progress after recording 25 points in the first half of the season.

60 Points, What Madness Do You Think Will Happen Until The End Of The Season, I See Us Getting About 45 Points To Possibly 50 Points

Also Poch Needs To Stop The Absolute Bollocks Of Playing Palmer As A False 9, As I Said Last Night It's On The Same Levels Of When We Use To Put Hazard As A False 9, Just Negates Anything That They'd Offer 

14 hours ago, Victor90 said:

All of you calling for his sacking will want the next manager gone after he can't work miracles within a couple of months. 

I'm not calling for his sacking (yet), but I am seriously underwhelmed with Poch. And I was one who thought he was the best choice when candidates were being touted last summer.

Don't mind defeats and poor results if we can see performances heading in the right direction with improvement in players and a team being assembled. But bar one or two exceptions, the performances have been poor. I can't see any improvement in the players and we still look like a side of 11 individuals. 

I don't want him sacked and I expect him to last the season but he's been nowhere near good enough, even allowing for injuries etc. It's a f**king shambles.

 

With the amount of chances I’ve seen this team miss forgive me for not believing another manager would be doing much better than Poch has so far. 
 

The fact we have even got as far as two potential cup finals and a decent chance at getting 7th is a miracle by itself considering we are still very much a work in progress.