7 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Exactly, you can't build a title challenge but top 7 shouldnt be difficult

We're discussing which top trophy-winning manager would come and manage this team ... you think they'd come to be 7th  ? 

Pretty much the point Matt Law was making via his source, so thank you for the indirect validation ! 

9 hours ago, venom2011 said:

And let's be clear, Poch wasn't hired to take the team to titles. He was hired to take the team to the next step, building out the foundation with a view to finding some consistency. What we've seen this season is much better than the horror show that was last season - and that with more experienced players. We've been sniffing victories against City, Arsenal and Liverpool which would have been a dream last season.

I'm fine with keeping him on as long as the squad gets fixed and injuries are ironed out. That will have a bigger impact than any managerial change. We need consistency in the backroom before we'll see it on the pitch.

And yet, not a single player bar Gallagher has improved under Pochettino. They are all stalling or regressing. And more importantly, Pochettino is not a leader that inspires them to go for the kill in ET on a Cup final against a Liverpool team with several players that had never played at senior level. The lack of leadership and attitude in the team is glaring and that's down to the coach. At some point we have to realise that this team is better than 10th and a lot of the matches were lost based on attitude and not due to having lower quality.

The fact is their subs made a bigger difference than our subs. They had a fresh midfield. We play the same 3 in midfield every game. Gallagher is regularly gassed late in the game. Nkunku who be good at 10 never gets a chance there. We had no midfielders on the bench and our only potential midfielder was in the frontline. So for sure Lavia, ugo, carney  all injured and casedi unavailable makes it hard but it is on Poch to find a way.

exactly the same thing happened against Citeh. Poch just isn’t at the races. You have to rotate in midfield a bit. I still think Caicedo is carrying a knee injury. He never gets to rest it. 
you have to spell gusto and chiller. You don’t have to spell stirling or palmer or Jackson. 

1 minute ago, ozboy said:

The fact is their subs made a bigger difference than our subs. They had a fresh midfield. We play the same 3 in midfield every game. Gallagher is regularly gassed late in the game. Nkunku who be good at 10 never gets a chance there. We had no midfielders on the bench and our only potential midfielder was in the frontline. So for sure Lavia, ugo, carney  all injured and casedi unavailable makes it hard but it is on Poch to find a way.

exactly the same thing happened against Citeh. Poch just isn’t at the races. You have to rotate in midfield a bit. I still think Caicedo is carrying a knee injury. He never gets to rest it. 
you have to spell gusto and chiller. You don’t have to spell stirling or palmer or Jackson. 

Who else would you pick to play in midfield ?

 

7 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Supplied by the 27 year old Greek international winger LOL

I'm stunned how many people are so easily influenced by Gary bloody Neville LOL

9 U-19s wtf ... they had at least 6 players all game who were 25+ including at the end of the game !!!

Van Dijk 32.6, Endo 31.0, Tsimikas 27.8, Diaz 27.1, Gomez 26.8, Kelleher 25.3. Then Quansah 21.1 and Elliott 20.9 (both have had PL starts this season for the side that is top) and three actual teenagers ... three, not nine LOL.

Boy oh boy ... tough crowd 🙂

First team Chelsea vs Liverpool kids. 

But our freaking first 11 is on average is younger than when pool threw all the kids in. 😂😂😂

 

2 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

First team Chelsea vs Liverpool kids. 

But our freaking first 11 is on average is younger than when pool threw all the kids in. 😂😂😂

 

Yes, they've basically created a fake story that can run for a few days and generate loads of follow up reporting and clicks and advertising revenue ... quite clever really LOL.

I doubt Neville even came up with it himself ... probably all on the autocue :-) 

Next 3 seasons that should keep Pochettino's job and we are progressing as a club and a team

2023-24 team core beginning to form, get rid of injuries

2024-25 2 new players in, 2-4 players out, team core is continuing to develop (Petrovic, Gusto, Disasi, Badiashile, Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher, Palmer), new guys integrated, better League position in the end, data showing improvement in all areas, cup final maybe...

2025-26 2 new players in, 2 players out, team core clear, Champions League spot, cup final, data showing improvement in most areas.

2026-2027 2 new players in, 2 players out, team core established, push for the Prem title, Champions League last 16 or last 8, cup final maybe, data showing we are a top side. 

This is how I see we should move on with the project. At 2026-27 our players that are now 21-22 will be 25-26 which is the age you start to be pretty consistent.

If then you still fail as a coach, you probably need to go. 

Naturally life happens as it happens but if you wrote something for the future I think this could be a good scenario. Would be lovely to see someone like Enzo being a top player in the world at that point.

 

24 minutes ago, evissy said:

Next 3 seasons that should keep Pochettino's job and we are progressing as a club and a team

2023-24 team core beginning to form, get rid of injuries

2024-25 2 new players in, 2-4 players out, team core is continuing to develop (Petrovic, Gusto, Disasi, Badiashile, Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher, Palmer), new guys integrated, better League position in the end, data showing improvement in all areas, cup final maybe...

2025-26 2 new players in, 2 players out, team core clear, Champions League spot, cup final, data showing improvement in most areas.

2026-2027 2 new players in, 2 players out, team core established, push for the Prem title, Champions League last 16 or last 8, cup final maybe, data showing we are a top side. 

This is how I see we should move on with the project. At 2026-27 our players that are now 21-22 will be 25-26 which is the age you start to be pretty consistent.

If then you still fail as a coach, you probably need to go. 

Naturally life happens as it happens but if you wrote something for the future I think this could be a good scenario. Would be lovely to see someone like Enzo being a top player in the world at that point.

 

I don't care too much if we fire poch. Just don't hire crazy manager than I am fine. 

What is more important is our squad building policy. 

Gallagher has been one of our best player yet he hasn't still signed a new contract. Maybe we can no longer consider ourselves as big club. 

We have clear deficiency in the squad. Will our board fix that or will they just just throw more wonder kid into the team. 

This is imo far more important than poch or new manager. 

 

Edited February 27, 20242 yr by Bob stark

7 hours ago, ozboy said:

I am an aussie and have always backed Ange Postecoglou. He gets a sh**load of press just now because of the change of style at spuds. We all know a season is 38 league games never mind the cups and that reputations are made over 3 seasons minimum not half a season. That said, this article from the sydney morning herald, reprinted I think from the NYT shows just how much influence a manager can have.

And by the way this is the way the manager works with potential players. What the article doesn't talk about but what surely happens is that the manager also works on the owners and sells them on the "project". People do matter and this idea that no manage can make much difference to this chelsea squad is just plain wrong. Just because we haven't had a good manager since Tuchel, and Tuchel was fading, doesn't mean they don't exist.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/ange-i-m-in-why-postecoglou-s-powers-of-persuasion-work-on-so-many-signings-20240227-p5f81d.html

I like Ange.

I thought he came across terrifically well in the interview he did for BBC, and I particularly liked what he said about his style of football being what his dad would enjoy watching. 

Having said that, he's had a free reign with signing players he wanted at Tottenham, which is a completely different model to what we have here (Poch has got nothing that he asked for in two windows now), and even disregarding that, Ange has still got himself knocked out of both cups in the very early stages, and got battered by a big rival playing suicidal high line tactics.

Imagine the toxicity on here if he'd been our manager and doing stuff like that ? 

There is also zero expectation of trophies from the fanbase at Tottenham, due to their history, so the pressures he is working under are hugely different.

The Chelsea manager job is probably the hardest job in football at a top club right now. 

1 hour ago, RMH said:

And yet, not a single player bar Gallagher has improved under Pochettino. They are all stalling or regressing. And more importantly, Pochettino is not a leader that inspires them to go for the kill in ET on a Cup final against a Liverpool team with several players that had never played at senior level. The lack of leadership and attitude in the team is glaring and that's down to the coach. At some point we have to realise that this team is better than 10th and a lot of the matches were lost based on attitude and not due to having lower quality.

How are you supposed to judge the improvement of Jackson, Palmer, Caicedo, Madueke, Gusto, Disasi, Colwill, Petrovic? Palmer is better than what he showed at City last season, Gusto has been excellent, Disasi and Colwill are better players than they were at the beginning of the season, and Sterling improved on last season. Let's not let a narrative get in the way of actual evidence. 

You also cannot assemble a squad devoid of leadership characteristics and then 8 months into his tenure blame the manager for the lack of leadership being shown (even more so when considering other factors like injuries). As I've said, keep the manager unless things become untenable, build the squad, fix the injury issues. That's the only way forward.

 

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

I don't care too much if we fire poch. Just don't hire crazy manager than I am fine. 

What is more important is our squad building policy. 

Gallagher has been one of our best player yet he hasn't still signed a new contract. Maybe we can no longer consider ourselves as big club. 

We have clear deficiency in the squad. Will our board fix that or will they just just throw more wonder kid into the team. 

This is imo far more important than poch or new manager. 

 

Boehly is not in line with this. He wants us to be a bigger club than we are or have been. Building a winning squad, new stadium or a remodel, new ways of revenue streams. He was pretty adamant we need to be a winning club to grow.

Replacing the entire squad with young boys for me tells they are not expecting us to be bigger for a number of years. If they are, they should leave immediately on the count of being massive idiots.

Edited February 27, 20242 yr by evissy

14 hours ago, venom2011 said:

And let's be clear, Poch wasn't hired to take the team to titles. He was hired to take the team to the next step, building out the foundation with a view to finding some consistency. What we've seen this season is much better than the horror show that was last season - and that with more experienced players. We've been sniffing victories against City, Arsenal and Liverpool which would have been a dream last season.

I'm fine with keeping him on as long as the squad gets fixed and injuries are ironed out. That will have a bigger impact than any managerial change. We need consistency in the backroom before we'll see it on the pitch.

If the club is fine at being mediocre despite the huge spending, then Pochettino should stay forever.

It should be a red flag that it's crystal clear that Poch simply isn't going to win anything, even though we did have a chance to do it just a few days ago. But somehow it's not, it's all accepted as the new normality of the club.

The club actually went from being upset at the top 5 finish of Conte, to being totally fine with a top 10 placement multiple seasons in a row.

 

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Boehly is not in line with this. He wants us to be a bigger club than we are or have been. Building a winning squad, new stadium or a remodel, new ways of revenue streams. He was pretty adamant we need to be a winning club to grow.

Replacing the entire squad with young boys for me tells they are not expecting us to be bigger for a number of years. If they are, they should leave immediately on the count of being massive idiots.

I don't think they expected to win the big trophies immediately but equally I think they were expecting much better than midtable. We don't have the full information from behind the scenes, but speculation suggests that they were expecting at least top 6 and Europa League this season. Supposedly that is the goal Poch was set, and I guess we will know if that was the case when we see what they decide to do at the end of the season.  

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

If the club is fine at being mediocre despite the huge spending, then Pochettino should stay forever.

It should be a red flag that it's crystal clear that Poch simply isn't going to win anything, even though we did have a chance to do it just a few days ago. But somehow it's not, it's all accepted as the new normality of the club.

The club actually went from being upset at the top 5 finish of Conte, to being totally fine with a top 10 placement multiple seasons in a row.

 

I read this and just thought back to pre roman days with the tinker man. 

He essentially built the side that went on to dominate English football for a decade. Jose came in and installed a turbo charged winning mentality at all costs. 

Im not sure, as when he signed, poch was a winning manager, but I did think he is capable, over a couple of seasons of building or shaping the side into something decent, certainly capable of challenging for titles. Is he the right guy to take us back to our former successes? Again not sure, but I have seen improvements in the way we play, from the way we retain possession for large parts of games to seeing players grow with the responsibility of wearing the blue. 

It's the business end of the season, top six is achievable with a run of wins. Nows the time to shout and cheer at the bridge and let the boys know come rain or shine, win or loose, we'll support them. Again, how it was pre roman days. 

3 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I don't think they expected to win the big trophies immediately but equally I think they were expecting much better than midtable. We don't have the full information from behind the scenes, but speculation suggests that they were expecting at least top 6 and Europa League this season. Supposedly that is the goal Poch was set, and I guess we will know if that was the case when we see what they decide to do at the end of the season.  

Looking at how competitive the League is replacing the entire squad with young players who mostly are alien to England and the league and to expect anything above 6-10 would be insane. We have had horrible luck with injuries as well. 

I know there are 3-4 good choices to replace Poch but why would we do it? To gain some short term advantage but mostly to reshuffle everything. 

I think Poch is doing fine taking care of the young expensive lads and making them gel game by game. Inconsistency is such a big part of young guys. Play two games well, play horrible game after that. That is not really easily controlled by the coach.

16 minutes ago, evissy said:

Looking at how competitive the League is replacing the entire squad with young players who mostly are alien to England and the league and to expect anything above 6-10 would be insane. We have had horrible luck with injuries as well. 

I know there are 3-4 good choices to replace Poch but why would we do it? To gain some short term advantage but mostly to reshuffle everything. 

I think Poch is doing fine taking care of the young expensive lads and making them gel game by game. Inconsistency is such a big part of young guys. Play two games well, play horrible game after that. That is not really easily controlled by the coach.

 "Insane" 😂

Wolves, West Ham, United, Brighton, and Villa do not have better squads than us.  Poch is underachieving. Plain and simple. Using age/inexperience as an excuse whilst losing a final against a ravaged Liverpool team that had to put on four 18-20 year olds is almost poetic. "Oh but they had VVD". Cool. Why was their only threat, which has been from set pieces, allowed to score 2 headers almost effortlessly? We were lucky with the first one. All game they were trying set plays and not once was VVD marked appropriately. An issue that has been all season for us. And as if VVD is all of a sudden more of a goal threat vs the likes of Sterling, Nkunku, Palmer, and Jackson. 

Injuries excuse is moot when you only need 1 finger to say which player from our XI has actually improved since the start of the season. 

Would be pointless sacking him now, the time to do it was before Sunday where the chance of an almost instant trophy may have been able to attract someone like Flick.

For all his faults Poch clearly still has the dressing room on his side (they wouldn't have fought so hard to somewhat recover from the Wolves game if he didn't). If we sack him now with little to nothing to play for we'd probably do something like give Michael Beale the interim job and the squad will just hit the beach until the summer again.

All of the "lesser" teams with players not as good as ours, have the distinct advantage, that their squads are older than ours, with the strength that maturity brings. All know the premiership, or at least English football. All have been together, barring the odd new arrival for quite some time, they know each others game, and what to expect of their team mates. They are generally coached to a specific style of play, which takes time usually. In the case of Loonypool, all those youngsters who were actually older than most of our squad, have been trained in an environment, to play exactly as the first team does, so when they get their chance, they fit in without too many problems. We used to do that too, and eventually should get back there. at this moment in time we have lets not be silly about things, a very talented group of individual players. The operative word being individuals. Only time and the experience of properly becoming a TEAM, Will see them reach anywhere near their potential. Young players are always inconsistant, with a smattering in the team, you usually get away with it. With it being practically the whole team, you don't very often. My concern with Poch is i think it has taken too long, to get to where we are now.

27 minutes ago, Argo said:

Would be pointless sacking him now, the time to do it was before Sunday where the chance of an almost instant trophy may have been able to attract someone like Flick.

For all his faults Poch clearly still has the dressing room on his side (they wouldn't have fought so hard to somewhat recover from the Wolves game if he didn't). If we sack him now with little to nothing to play for we'd probably do something like give Michael Beale the interim job and the squad will just hit the beach until the summer again.

He deserved the final and deserves the rest of the season. I think what is clear is that when Poch agreed to a short term deal, he knew he had to deliver to be considered for the long haul. The final was his chance and he failed due to methods that prevented him from winning anything with Spurs to begin with. 

We should be doing what Liverpool and Bayern are doing now, start now by finding an alternative vs waiting in June. 

 

38 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 "Insane" 😂

Wolves, West Ham, United, Brighton, and Villa do not have better squads than us.  Poch is underachieving. Plain and simple. Using age/inexperience as an excuse whilst losing a final against a ravaged Liverpool team that had to put on four 18-20 year olds is almost poetic. "Oh but they had VVD". Cool. Why was their only threat, which has been from set pieces, allowed to score 2 headers almost effortlessly? We were lucky with the first one. All game they were trying set plays and not once was VVD marked appropriately. An issue that has been all season for us. And as if VVD is all of a sudden more of a goal threat vs the likes of Sterling, Nkunku, Palmer, and Jackson. 

Injuries excuse is moot when you only need 1 finger to say which player from our XI has actually improved since the start of the season. 

 

I do agree that Poch is underachieving with this squad, I think that's a fact. Though I dont think the other squads you mentioned are that far away from us in terms of quality players and we're probably on par in alot of cases depending on the areas on the pitch. Would be interesting to see how many chelsea players get into a combined starting 11 of those teams, 3 maybe?

31 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

He deserved the final and deserves the rest of the season. I think what is clear is that when Poch agreed to a short term deal, he knew he had to deliver to be considered for the long haul. The final was his chance and he failed due to methods that prevented him from winning anything with Spurs to begin with. 

We should be doing what Liverpool and Bayern are doing now, start now by finding an alternative vs waiting in June. 

 

Had we nosedive after Liverpool and Wolves we'd have had to do it to even have stood the slightest chance.

Tbh I'll be pretty worried if Poch's medium/long term future came down to Gallagher failing to chip it over the keeper.

 

So that's two teams he's been at, three including us, that have had injury crisis'. It's a of a coincidence isn't it?

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 "Insane" 😂

Wolves, West Ham, United, Brighton, and Villa do not have better squads than us.  Poch is underachieving. Plain and simple. Using age/inexperience as an excuse whilst losing a final against a ravaged Liverpool team that had to put on four 18-20 year olds is almost poetic. "Oh but they had VVD". Cool. Why was their only threat, which has been from set pieces, allowed to score 2 headers almost effortlessly? We were lucky with the first one. All game they were trying set plays and not once was VVD marked appropriately. An issue that has been all season for us. And as if VVD is all of a sudden more of a goal threat vs the likes of Sterling, Nkunku, Palmer, and Jackson. 

Injuries excuse is moot when you only need 1 finger to say which player from our XI has actually improved since the start of the season. 

Okay. If you counter with age, look at that Sky Sports stat posted here. 

Wolves and West Ham have both very experienced sides. MU and Brighton for us are a better comparison. Compared to them we have under achieved probably. 

Injuries are not an excuse. It is a fact. Liverpool still had most of their winning core playing but we have to give them praise on their goalie and how well the young guys slotted in. Winning is a habit and they possess that at the moment and for years. 

But you can live with the media narrative if you want to suffer. Have a good one 😅

10 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

 

So that's two teams he's been at, three including us, that have had injury crisis'. It's a of a coincidence isn't it?

Might have been something in this, if we hadn't already had awful injury issues before he joined. Our recent habit of buying players with existing injuries has probably been a big factor.

17 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

 

So that's two teams he's been at, three including us, that have had injury crisis'. It's a of a coincidence isn't it?

So you've found two injury crises in, what, 13 years of management before he came to us ? 

Pretty poor show from Poch I'd say ... we like to have one every two months at this club !