15 minutes ago, evissy said:

Okay. If you counter with age, look at that Sky Sports stat posted here. 

Wolves and West Ham have both very experienced sides. MU and Brighton for us are a better comparison. Compared to them we have under achieved probably. 

Injuries are not an excuse. It is a fact. Liverpool still had most of their winning core playing but we have to give them praise on their goalie and how well the young guys slotted in. Winning is a habit and they possess that at the moment and for years. 

But you can live with the media narrative if you want to suffer. Have a good one 😅

Why have our experienced players in Chilwell, Sterling, Disasi, James and Silva underperformed then? 

"Winning core" is a bit of a stretch when VVD and Roberston were the only players on the pitch for Liverpool that tasted League and Champions League success. Liverpool had their entire midfield stripped over the summer and replaced with players who have no idea what it takes to play for a big club. Or is experience not relevant for them too? The transition was seamless and this is down to the manager, whereas with us it took 8 months for Caicedo and Enzo to start working well together. And I say well lightly as they look half the players they are the majority of the time. 

I don't listen to the media narrative, I watch with my own eyes. 

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

So you've found two injury crises in, what, 13 years of management before he came to us ? 

Pretty poor show from Poch I'd say ... we like to have one every two months at this club ! 

You really can't handle any criticism of your hero Poch can you 😂

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

The transition was seamless and this is down to the manager, whereas with us it took 8 months for Caicedo and Enzo to start working well together. And I say well lightly as they look half the players they are the majority of the time. 

 

It's amazing that Enzo-Caicedo in a 4-2-3-1 isn't one of the best midfielder partnerships in the league. 

37 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

You really can't handle any criticism of your hero Poch can you 😂

Just trying to provide a bit of balance to the endless waves of misery emanating from most of you on here :-) 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

It's amazing that Enzo-Caicedo in a 4-2-3-1 isn't one of the best midfielder partnerships in the league. 

Almost as if they aren't yet quite as good as you think they are :-)

Give it a couple of years and you'll need to stock up on the tissues daily  !

37 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Almost as if they aren't yet quite as good as you think they are 🙂

Give it a couple of years and you'll need to stock up on the tissues daily  !

Can't believe that just yet, they shouldn't be a downgrade on Jorginho-Kovacic. If nothing changes next season I'll admit you were right all along.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Had we nosedive after Liverpool and Wolves we'd have had to do it to even have stood the slightest chance.

Tbh I'll be pretty worried if Poch's medium/long term future came down to Gallagher failing to chip it over the keeper.

To add onto this, you mentioned Flick taking over but he too worries me. There's a video on Amazon of Muller and Kimmich questioning Flick's management into why Japan was able to beat Germany and Flick failing to address or even be aware of issues the players immediately and correctly pointed out. 

 

Edited February 27, 20242 yr by Sconnie Blue

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Why have our experienced players in Chilwell, Sterling, Disasi, James and Silva underperformed then? 

"Winning core" is a bit of a stretch when VVD and Roberston were the only players on the pitch for Liverpool that tasted League and Champions League success. Liverpool had their entire midfield stripped over the summer and replaced with players who have no idea what it takes to play for a big club. Or is experience not relevant for them too? The transition was seamless and this is down to the manager, whereas with us it took 8 months for Caicedo and Enzo to start working well together. And I say well lightly as they look half the players they are the majority of the time. 

I don't listen to the media narrative, I watch with my own eyes. 

Liverpool actually have a system and a core. We had none of that starting from this season. Nothing. Liverpool players slot into Klopps system because there is a winning system in place built over years. Klopp is also one of the best coaches around. That doesn't mean Pochettino can't succeed with our kids. No one is comparing Klopp to Pochettino because at this moment in time for me it is complete waste of time. 

These young lads need to fail to learn. They need to also face their opponents multiple times to learn how to beat them. 

We finally have a chance to build with young lads with a bright future and people are complaining the approach. World of football haven't actually seen this approach before and to me that is exciting. 

Listen to any pundit and you waste your time. They know f**k all. 

I personally like our situation better than Liverpool. They lose their main asset. From now on it will be "is he as good as Klopp or not".

I know it was disappointing to lose but I wonder if the actually view reaching a final and being competitive as a positive achievement. I know not winning it (especially given the circumstances) was majorly disappointing but to get to a final with such a young squad that has had to cope with massive, long term injuries, could be viewed as a positive in context. 

Also, one thing to factor in is that most of these players have skipped the development phase of their career and gone straight to a “big club”. Normally, players will spend a couple of seasons under low profile teams where they can develop. The players we’ve bought haven’t had that.
 

We’ve got to do that development and unfortunately, that comes with a cost. 

8 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 "Insane" 😂

Wolves, West Ham, United, Brighton, and Villa do not have better squads than us.  Poch is underachieving. Plain and simple.

So saying that Poch is underachieving means your time-frame for appraisal is 'now'. And if any manager wanted to see results 'now', Chelsea's squad would be near last on that list. United, West Ham, Villa in particular have a good amount of experience in their squads. If you gave Poch one of those teams and Pep Chelsea, I'd bet my house on Poch finishing above him.

9 hours ago, forbzy said:

I don't think they expected to win the big trophies immediately but equally I think they were expecting much better than midtable. We don't have the full information from behind the scenes, but speculation suggests that they were expecting at least top 6 and Europa League this season. Supposedly that is the goal Poch was set, and I guess we will know if that was the case when we see what they decide to do at the end of the season.  

If we want to go to Europe why we did not try to sign a st as @justsaid in his thread. We even loaned out our backup st 🫣🫣

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

I know it was disappointing to lose but I wonder if the actually view reaching a final and being competitive as a positive achievement. I know not winning it (especially given the circumstances) was majorly disappointing but to get to a final with such a young squad that has had to cope with massive, long term injuries, could be viewed as a positive in context. 

No.

Our opponents were Wimbledon, Brighton, Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Liverpool.

We caught Brighton on an off day and we lost to Middlesbrough 1st leg. Let’s not make things look better than they actually are.

3 hours ago, evissy said:

Liverpool actually have a system and a core. We had none of that starting from this season. Nothing. Liverpool players slot into Klopps system because there is a winning system in place built over years. Klopp is also one of the best coaches around. That doesn't mean Pochettino can't succeed with our kids. No one is comparing Klopp to Pochettino because at this moment in time for me it is complete waste of time. 

These young lads need to fail to learn. They need to also face their opponents multiple times to learn how to beat them. 

We finally have a chance to build with young lads with a bright future and people are complaining the approach. World of football haven't actually seen this approach before and to me that is exciting. 

Listen to any pundit and you waste your time. They know f**k all. 

I personally like our situation better than Liverpool. They lose their main asset. From now on it will be "is he as good as Klopp or not".

Klopp is very good but pool is a clear example of how standard top team rebuild. 

Szobo, mccalister, endo, gravenberg, gakpo, Nunez, etc. 0 raw player. Even if they sign a raw player, it will be very cheap so they will just send him on loan. This is normal way. 

Our way is very different. Two winger who shouldn't be here for 100m. A st who played st the 1st time last season straight into first 11. A lot of people has been praising cole Palmer but this is Cole Palmer first real season in senior level and he is straight away become our starter. Last year was Enzo first season in europe and straight away starter for Chelsea. 

We have been poaching many personnel from Brighton and not a surpise that our approach is Brighton like. 

 

1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

No.

Our opponents were Wimbledon, Brighton, Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Liverpool.

We caught Brighton on an off day and we lost to Middlesbrough 1st leg. Let’s not make things look better than they actually are.

Exactly, there are no positives out of the cup lose, whatever perspectives one tried to look into.

That was a team of 300M+ we sent out, not a bunch of home grown academy kids. They were young because that's the approach the ownership took, spending billions on youth and future value instead of current ability. It's a mini mouse cup and many teams took it as such, we took it seriously and played first team throughout, losing it at the last ( and one real) hurdle is a failure. The notion that they will learn and come back stronger is just laughable, by now the players and manager are so used to losing, they aren't learning anything

7 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

Our opponents were Wimbledon, Brighton, Blackburn, Middlesbrough and Liverpool.

And Newcastle

9 minutes ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

And Newcastle

Thanks to Tripper, actually right now I'm not sure to thank or hate him for that🤫

14 hours ago, timetowaste said:

You really can't handle any criticism of your hero Poch can you 😂

What's wrong with what @Sexyfootball is saying though? Even if you disagree with him he's still being rational. You've literally flip flopped to one of his die hard supporters to he's sh*t sack him, to give him the rest of the season, back to sack him now. 

I'm still for giving the manager time, am I disappointed? Yes, I think we're underperforming, but I also think sacking him right now is far from the answer. I'm happy we have some people who remind others that chopping and changing over short periods of time isn't a great solution and it's how we keep being in this messs. 

6 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Exactly, there are no positives out of the cup lose, whatever perspectives one tried to look into.

That was a team of 300M+ we sent out, not a bunch of home grown academy kids. They were young because that's the approach the ownership took, spending billions on youth and future value instead of current ability. It's a mini mouse cup and many teams took it as such, we took it seriously and played first team throughout, losing it at the last ( and one real) hurdle is a failure. The notion that they will learn and come back stronger is just laughable, by now the players and manager are so used to losing, they aren't learning anything

Football is full of cliches and the loosing manager trotting out “ We’ll learn from this “ is one of the most tiresome. Almost as annoying as the post match bigging up of opponents “ Brammal Lane’s a difficult place to get a result “ eg

 

7 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Klopp is very good but pool is a clear example of how standard top team rebuild. 

Szobo, mccalister, endo, gravenberg, gakpo, Nunez, etc. 0 raw player. Even if they sign a raw player, it will be very cheap so they will just send him on loan. This is normal way. 

Our way is very different. Two winger who shouldn't be here for 100m. A st who played st the 1st time last season straight into first 11. A lot of people has been praising cole Palmer but this is Cole Palmer first real season in senior level and he is straight away become our starter. Last year was Enzo first season in europe and straight away starter for Chelsea. 

We have been poaching many personnel from Brighton and not a surpise that our approach is Brighton like. 

 

You either pay that 100m for potential or for a top class experienced player that has delivered for years.

We did that on Lukaku and it failed miserably. We now did it with Enzo, Caicedo and Mudryk. Key here is to let them grow into those roles in an stable environment. Stability for them is a good coach and preferably the same coach. If we make things unstable we are not following the (alleged) plan. 

Palmer is a phenomenon and it looks Gusto and Petrovic may be as well. Those are a couple examples of scouting that have hit the nail in the head. Jury is out on most of the rest but I feel barring nasty injuries Enzo and Caicedo will be the successful core of our side in the future. What a brilliant school for them to learn the ropes against best sides in the world of football. And you can argue midfield roles are the most difficult ones to handle at a young age especially in the Prem. 

Brighton's model of scouting with Chelsea's resources in Boehly's mind equals winning football and a successful club. 

17 hours ago, Ajbod said:

All of the "lesser" teams with players not as good as ours, have the distinct advantage, that their squads are older than ours, with the strength that maturity brings. All know the premiership, or at least English football. All have been together, barring the odd new arrival for quite some time, they know each others game, and what to expect of their team mates. They are generally coached to a specific style of play, which takes time usually. In the case of Loonypool, all those youngsters who were actually older than most of our squad, have been trained in an environment, to play exactly as the first team does, so when they get their chance, they fit in without too many problems. We used to do that too, and eventually should get back there. at this moment in time we have lets not be silly about things, a very talented group of individual players. The operative word being individuals. Only time and the experience of properly becoming a TEAM, Will see them reach anywhere near their potential. Young players are always inconsistant, with a smattering in the team, you usually get away with it. With it being practically the whole team, you don't very often. My concern with Poch is i think it has taken too long, to get to where we are now.

Yeah but Liverpool had all those youngsters ready to step onto the pitch. We had, like all season, two goal keepers on the bench. Other than gilchrist we have basically stuck with the same players all season. And we don’t play mudryck enough. In my view Poch has been trying to tread  water and hope that injured players come back to pick up the squad. But most of the injured players are staying injured. Not only that we are burning up the miles in the midfielders to little effect. 

21 minutes ago, ozboy said:

Yeah but Liverpool had all those youngsters ready to step onto the pitch. We had, like all season, two goal keepers on the bench. Other than gilchrist we have basically stuck with the same players all season. And we don’t play mudryck enough. In my view Poch has been trying to tread  water and hope that injured players come back to pick up the squad. But most of the injured players are staying injured. Not only that we are burning up the miles in the midfielders to little effect. 

I think that's a fair assessment. 

I suspect there is significant pressure from above on results that is driving the behaviour. It is also much easier to drip feed a few kids into a winning side with an experienced core, as Klopp has done in the PL with Bradley, Elliott and Quansah, who are all the same age as or older than the likes of Colwill and Gusto who we are relying on for every game. The analogy would be for Bradley, Elliott and Quansah to be playing every game, and asking Klopp to then supplement them with further youth players. I bet Liverpool wouldn't be top if that was their scenario ... 

If Poch did play a few kids in midfield, and it went wrong, it would be carnage on here LOL. I'd have probably kept hold of Alex Matos as a midfield cover player rather than sending him out on loan, but we don't know who makes these decisions behind the scenes. It was rumoured Poch wanted to keep Angelo Gabriel in the squad but he was loaned out, so I personally think a lot of these decisions are out of the manager's hands ... 

We do at least now have Casadei back as an option, albeit not in any of the cup games.

Mudryk was awful when he brought him on in extra time on Sunday ... same as he's been awful when he's had starts. I think he is basically a dud player so I can see why other players are preferred. Silver lining .. at least he's better than Antony LOL

I’m reasonably happy with our defence and midfield. It’s our attack which is the issue. If we can fix the attack, I.e find players that are clinical and ruthless, we will have a decent team. We are not far away. 
 

Bar Palmer, none of our forwards have performed or shown they are worthy of leading our line and we’ve spent about £300m on forwards. 

2 hours ago, Timmy Elms said:

Football is full of cliches and the loosing manager trotting out “ We’ll learn from this “ is one of the most tiresome. Almost as annoying as the post match bigging up of opponents “ Brammal Lane’s a difficult place to get a result “ eg

 

To his credit Poch didn't exact say - the boys gave everything 😄

Can't remember if Poch has won a cup with PSG before, but he certainly had done few amount of learning based on his cup finals record

3 hours ago, Victor90 said:

What's wrong with what @Sexyfootball is saying though? Even if you disagree with him he's still being rational. You've literally flip flopped to one of his die hard supporters to he's sh*t sack him, to give him the rest of the season, back to sack him now. 

I'm still for giving the manager time, am I disappointed? Yes, I think we're underperforming, but I also think sacking him right now is far from the answer. I'm happy we have some people who remind others that chopping and changing over short periods of time isn't a great solution and it's how we keep being in this messs. 

There's nothing wrong with it, but an inability to accept he deserved criticism is daft. At the end of the day we all want Chelsea to be back challenging and I think the overwhelming majority of people have accepted that Poch isn't the guy to take us forward.
 

Accepting you were wrong about something is not 'flip flopping' I gave him my full backing when he joined the club but since the beginning of 2024 it's pretty apparent he isn't right for the club. I'd have already sacked him, especially after the loss at home to wolves, but I'd accepted at this point it's probably not happening until the end of the season. That being said, that loss to Liverpool was so embarrassing, one of the worst in our history in terms of result, that should have seen him sacked on the spot and I don't think it's unreasonable to think that.