48 minutes ago, Term_X said:

Take nothing away from the positivity around the club at the minute and lineup choices in particular but there is definitely still work to do on the structure.

 

But there is no reason to constantly press there, and Fulham did nothing of note during that period of possession.

Props to Poch for really trying to make Mudryk his new Son. Things might go our way more often if the focus is there, play simple to get your attacker going and you might get some gifts coming your way and Poch recognizes that while playing a young squad which shows his quality as a manager.

 

1 hour ago, Term_X said:

Take nothing away from the positivity around the club at the minute and lineup choices in particular but there is definitely still work to do on the structure.

 

EBL called Ange's success at Spurs and Potter to fail at Chelsea way before most people, they're a very good account

9 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

EBL called Ange's success at Spurs and Potter to fail at Chelsea way before most people, they're a very good account

Hardly a hot take that manager who's won league titles and international tournaments would likely be successful, and a rookie coach with no trophies likely wouldn't be at Chelsea - especially when most people on this forum alone expected Potter to fail. 

That particular analysis from EBL seems to use a lot of current tactical jargon to boost credibility at the expense of evidence. Conceding the ball to Fulham's centre-backs is not a problem, and one only needs to hark back to commentary about our 'suicidal', disorganised pressing under Lampard (x2) and Potter to see the potential consequences of adopting EBL's suggested strategy. 

What they propose would be to effectively concede space on the wings in order to maybe have a chance at closing down a centre back. That's not optimal. That would have Gallagher and Broja pushing up and all it would require is the CB to play a quick ball to the wings to break the press. It completely vacates the centre, leaving the pivot midfielders 3v2 or 4v2 at times. We saw this time and time again under Lampard and Potter. 

In any case, Broja's goal came from one of our players robbing a CB, so I'm failing to see how the proposed tactic would make that any more likely. At 0:34-0:36 you can see how the congested centre allows Caicedo to put in a block and stop Fulham progressing through the heart of the defence. Hell Tim Ream even throws his hands in the air Hasselbaink-style in frustration at not being able to break the press in the centre. In the end Fulham's attack relies on a Hollywood pass to a wide player, who then has to beat a fullback and cross into a set defence. It's completely turned a dangerous situation into a sub-optimal one for Fulham.

 

Edited October 4, 20232 yr by SydneyChelsea

Bit too early to call Angie a success, a great start I give him that, helped by some favorable decisions ( no evidence required). Everyone knew Potter would fail at Chelsea, even the few who backed him were just putting on a brave face. I'm no tactician, but Fulham centre backs are hardly Man City of Barca quality, probably the ones you want to give the ball to, give the same to Willian would be a different story.

If we compare Chelsea and MU and the struggles to general public they might look similar and general public itself only want to know they are failing to their aims. If you are Tottenham fan you only need media to say Chelsea and MU lost and are in crisis.

If you ask them do they know what is the difference they say I don't care one bit. They lost, all is good. This is why media always writes "1bn spent, and lost again." Most of the public like to read that hence they keep buying the rag and visit the news site. 

There is very little intelligent stuff written about us or our struggles and why that is. I personally would like us the fans who follow all Chelsea, to maybe be more understanding to the aims of the club. Now problem here is the club is not saying we are building. Pochettino has said two things: "We need to win" and "We are building". Those two things might be contradictory and they are if you don't look deeper. I feel Pochettino said we need to win to instill winning mentality to the club and keep up the spine of the club. That doesn't say if we don't win he is sacked. The club should probably say that out loud, maybe. Maybe not. Maybe we just need to wait the season out and see how Poch and the players did. 

If we are building as I think we do we should understand what building needs. Young players need stability and minutes. Pochettino's track record in this is proven. When we lose games and we will lose a ton of games media is calling for Poch's head and writing articles about 1bn spent. We should know that failing and learning is part of the process. 

What us fans should do is just back the side, be a tight unit and forget the noise and ve behind the young players and Pochettino. If we don't their job is that much harder. 

MU is in completely different situation. They have a more experienced and settled side. Similar to them is the fact they are probably, along with us, the most hated clubs in England. Our struggles is their pleasure. That is fine. They are doing things like we did with Roman and without success. They are buying established players. We are buying Washington and Ugochugwu. I don't know what their aims are but I am sure they are expecting Ten Haag to deliver titles for them..

Edited October 4, 20232 yr by evissy

3 hours ago, evissy said:

If we compare Chelsea and MU and the struggles to general public they might look similar and general public itself only want to know they are failing to their aims. If you are Tottenham fan you only need media to say Chelsea and MU lost and are in crisis.

If you ask them do they know what is the difference they say I don't care one bit. They lost, all is good. This is why media always writes "1bn spent, and lost again." Most of the public like to read that hence they keep buying the rag and visit the news site. 

There is very little intelligent stuff written about us or our struggles and why that is. I personally would like us the fans who follow all Chelsea, to maybe be more understanding to the aims of the club. Now problem here is the club is not saying we are building. Pochettino has said two things: "We need to win" and "We are building". Those two things might be contradictory and they are if you don't look deeper. I feel Pochettino said we need to win to instill winning mentality to the club and keep up the spine of the club. That doesn't say if we don't win he is sacked. The club should probably say that out loud, maybe. Maybe not. Maybe we just need to wait the season out and see how Poch and the players did. 

If we are building as I think we do we should understand what building needs. Young players need stability and minutes. Pochettino's track record in this is proven. When we lose games and we will lose a ton of games media is calling for Poch's head and writing articles about 1bn spent. We should know that failing and learning is part of the process. 

What us fans should do is just back the side, be a tight unit and forget the noise and ve behind the young players and Pochettino. If we don't their job is that much harder. 

MU is in completely different situation. They have a more experienced and settled side. Similar to them is the fact they are probably, along with us, the most hated clubs in England. Our struggles is their pleasure. That is fine. They are doing things like we did with Roman and without success. They are buying established players. We are buying Washington and Ugochugwu. I don't know what their aims are but I am sure they are expecting Ten Haag to deliver titles for them..

This might sound a bit stupid, but I think United have more problems than we currently do.

And I'm not just saying that because we've won our last two games, we're bound to be losing games due to how inexperienced and brand-new our team is. United has no excuses to be playing the way they do, they've been a project in the making for years and have very experienced players that have played together for years. 

I think in the core areas in our team we have some amazing foundations there of good quality players who can get better over time. United is just a big mess and players falling out with managers has become a big issue over there. 

I really have no problem with the squad (maybe a striker short). However the  team won’tbe successful playing  ultra defensive which is the way we set up. Never more evident than when we finished the last game with Sterling as the only recognised attacker on the field. That’s just an example that illustrates the wider point. It’s a safety first mentality. Anyhow. And it’s frustrating. 

38 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

This might sound a bit stupid, but I think United have more problems than we currently do.

And I'm not just saying that because we've won our last two games, we're bound to be losing games due to how inexperienced and brand-new our team is. United has no excuses to be playing the way they do, they've been a project in the making for years and have very experienced players that have played together for years. 

I think in the core areas in our team we have some amazing foundations there of good quality players who can get better over time. United is just a big mess and players falling out with managers has become a big issue over there. 

Absolutely. This was my point as well. I feel a lot more confident with our project than theirs. They are also actively up for sale. What they do looks chaotic from the outside. They have some of the best players there is like Fernandes and up and coming Hojlund. Even Onana who has made mistakes is an excellent player. He was one of the main reasons Inter made to CL final. He just isn't comfortable with passing the ball to Lindelof under major pressure. 

I feel they are a couple of seasons behind us if they actually get sold. 

Btw re MU have you noticed when happy cheerful players go to Utd they change their outlook? They stop smiling and they try to imitate Cantona and Roy Keane in their behaviour. Even when Hojlund scored an excellent goal yesterday he didn't smile he just did that "we are mighty united" head bobbing and chin up arsehole- look. Even the ever-smiling Mount looks someone sucked the life out of him.

2 minutes ago, ozboy said:

I really have no problem with the squad (maybe a striker short). However the  team won’tbe successful playing  ultra defensive which is the way we set up. Never more evident than when we finished the last game with Sterling as the only recognised attacker on the field. That’s just an example that illustrates the wider point. It’s a safety first mentality. Anyhow. And it’s frustrating. 

The longer we are not winning nor racking up points the longer we are suring up own goal. Someone like Klopp doesn't really do that which is part of his philosophy. Every top coach looks for balance. Seems like Pochettino looks like defence is better to keep in check first and foremost.

This can also be something that happens naturally. Silva for example has a big say whether his main responsibility "keeping the clean sheet" is made sure. It would be much easier if we lived up to our good xG. If Jackson and Enzo finished their chances we'd be in excellent position.

I am not sure everything is easy to force by the coach. 

21 hours ago, Term_X said:

Take nothing away from the positivity around the club at the minute and lineup choices in particular but there is definitely still work to do on the structure.

 

Nope 

10 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Hardly a hot take that manager who's won league titles and international tournaments would likely be successful, and a rookie coach with no trophies likely wouldn't be at Chelsea - especially when most people on this forum alone expected Potter to fail. 

That particular analysis from EBL seems to use a lot of current tactical jargon to boost credibility at the expense of evidence. Conceding the ball to Fulham's centre-backs is not a problem, and one only needs to hark back to commentary about our 'suicidal', disorganised pressing under Lampard (x2) and Potter to see the potential consequences of adopting EBL's suggested strategy. 

What they propose would be to effectively concede space on the wings in order to maybe have a chance at closing down a centre back. That's not optimal. That would have Gallagher and Broja pushing up and all it would require is the CB to play a quick ball to the wings to break the press. It completely vacates the centre, leaving the pivot midfielders 3v2 or 4v2 at times. We saw this time and time again under Lampard and Potter. 

In any case, Broja's goal came from one of our players robbing a CB, so I'm failing to see how the proposed tactic would make that any more likely. At 0:34-0:36 you can see how the congested centre allows Caicedo to put in a block and stop Fulham progressing through the heart of the defence. Hell Tim Ream even throws his hands in the air Hasselbaink-style in frustration at not being able to break the press in the centre. In the end Fulham's attack relies on a Hollywood pass to a wide player, who then has to beat a fullback and cross into a set defence. It's completely turned a dangerous situation into a sub-optimal one for Fulham.

 

EBL analysis are 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

I remembered somebody sent me a link him saying that Bayern was already elite under TT because they played inverted fb. 🤣🤣🤣

What I know about tactic is that playing 343,inverted fb or whatever magical system doesn't make you a good manager. 

It is actually very easy to play whatever offensive structure or whatever pressing system you want. But how do you get your player who all have different skillset to do what you want is the hard part. 

Edited October 4, 20232 yr by Bob stark

16 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Hardly a hot take that manager who's won league titles and international tournaments would likely be successful, and a rookie coach with no trophies likely wouldn't be at Chelsea - especially when most people on this forum alone expected Potter to fail. 

That particular analysis from EBL seems to use a lot of current tactical jargon to boost credibility at the expense of evidence. Conceding the ball to Fulham's centre-backs is not a problem, and one only needs to hark back to commentary about our 'suicidal', disorganised pressing under Lampard (x2) and Potter to see the potential consequences of adopting EBL's suggested strategy. 

What they propose would be to effectively concede space on the wings in order to maybe have a chance at closing down a centre back. That's not optimal. That would have Gallagher and Broja pushing up and all it would require is the CB to play a quick ball to the wings to break the press. It completely vacates the centre, leaving the pivot midfielders 3v2 or 4v2 at times. We saw this time and time again under Lampard and Potter. 

In any case, Broja's goal came from one of our players robbing a CB, so I'm failing to see how the proposed tactic would make that any more likely. At 0:34-0:36 you can see how the congested centre allows Caicedo to put in a block and stop Fulham progressing through the heart of the defence. Hell Tim Ream even throws his hands in the air Hasselbaink-style in frustration at not being able to break the press in the centre. In the end Fulham's attack relies on a Hollywood pass to a wide player, who then has to beat a fullback and cross into a set defence. It's completely turned a dangerous situation into a sub-optimal one for Fulham.

 

To be fair he just said Enrique was the best manager PSG have had in a long time after getting battered by Newcastle, so maybe EBL isn't that great 😂

PSG midfield looked very ordinary, maybe it was the setup.

So glad we didn't go for Enrique. Far from the Messiah he is made out to be.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Nibs said:

So glad we didn't go for Enrique. Far from the Messiah he is made out to be.

Also quite incredible how a team with so many players that people have wanted us to sign over the years was completely destroyed by Newcastle last night.

Donnarumma, Hakimi, Skriniar, Hernandez, Ugarte, Dembele, Ramos ...  and that's without even mentioning Mbappé LOL

We've dodged the whole clip 🙂 

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Also quite incredible how a team with so many players that people have wanted us to sign over the years was completely destroyed by Newcastle last night.

Donnarumma, Hakimi, Skriniar, Hernandez, Ugarte, Dembele, Ramos ...  and that's without even mentioning Mbappé LOL

We've dodged the whole clip 🙂 

Half that PSG side last night were in @Whats_The_Mata? named list of "top class young talent" we should have signed! Dembele, Mouani, M'bappe.

12 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

To be fair he just said Enrique was the best manager PSG have had in a long time after getting battered by Newcastle, so maybe EBL isn't that great 😂

It is actually very simple to check whether fanalayst on Twitter is good or not. If they keep talking structure as some kind of holy grail, it means you follow the wrong account. 

On 03/10/2023 at 01:41, ozboy said:

Poch

got cucu at right back and starting mudryck correct. Credit where it’s due. However he still has to drop Silva, play Enzo deeper and thereby make room for another attacker.  Colwill was good as left back,but he is still out of position. Colwill has been the biggest improvement in the team this season compared to last in my opinion. A real talent. 

Nope.

44 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Nope.

He needs to be transitioned out at some point. 

7 hours ago, ozboy said:

PSG midfield looked very ordinary, maybe it was the setup.

TBF it always has done. They always spend big on attack and midfield and seemingly forget about midfield

24 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

He needs to be transitioned out at some point. 

Other than mis-controlling a ball he's still the best CB we have. Should be starting until the end of the season when he leaves anyway. 

6 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Other than mis-controlling a ball he's still the best CB we have. Should be starting until the end of the season when he leaves anyway. 

Disagree. He's been caught out of position far too many times since the latter parts of last season. His judgement is declining which isn't his fault considering his declining physicality. 

Badiashile for me should be the first name in defence. 

8 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Also quite incredible how a team with so many players that people have wanted us to sign over the years was completely destroyed by Newcastle last night.

Donnarumma, Hakimi, Skriniar, Hernandez, Ugarte, Dembele, Ramos ...  and that's without even mentioning Mbappé LOL

We've dodged the whole clip 🙂 

Weren't we 12th after the season we won the title and after that season we won basically with the same players? A ton to do with the mood in the squad and motivation. 

Put someone new in Enrique's place and that squad destroys most opponents. 

PSG basically also have a new team as well. 6 or 7 new players in the XI.