1 hour ago, comtrend said:

In the 8 PL games Kante didn't play we have 7 wins and one draw. We didn't play the best teams, but some of the games we have lost with Kante have also been against weaker oposition. I know he is a very good player when fit and against oposition that play a bit more open, but I wouldn't be against replacing him with a world class midfielder, if Real Madrid/PSG offered 100m+ for him in the summer.

That ship has sailed for me, we will get nowhere near that.

Firstly clubs do not pay big money for a defensive midfielder then we have his advancing years and recent injury history.

 

Kante needs a proper rest and Frank needs to have him go back to basics instead of trying to be everywhere at once. Once he gets his fitness and stamina back to what it used to be then we may be able to see the Kante of 2016-2018 again

He's very important against better sides who attack us more, as he gets about and breaks up the play. But in the games against sides who sit back, especially at SB, we need more creativity in there.

51 minutes ago, Zeta said:

He's very important against better sides who attack us more, as he gets about and breaks up the play. But in the games against sides who sit back, especially at SB, we need more creativity in there.

I think only two teams do that against us, City and Liverpool.

The rest  are trying to break up our play.

Getting tired of highlighting it but he's a hinderance to ourselves when we face teams that sit deep. Teams are perfectly happy for him to have the ball in their third because they know he won't do much with it and that's exactly what happened today.

Him and Jorginho is a terrible combination and it's costing us.

Crazy to think this but Kante needs to be our Mikel at this moment in time, we find it so much harder to score when Kante is in the middle.

Kante was our best midfielder today, facts. Keep dreaming how he's the problem now doesn't matter the slightest.

Lampard needs to think back to his successful days in our midfield with Makalele playing behind him. Get Kante replicating that role and we will be in much better shape.

It is utterly pointless playing Jorginho against a team set up in the way Newcastle were. They don't care about him having the ball because he shuffles it around miles from where Newcastle are set up. And he does so in a sleepy hollow pace which allows the opposition to get nicely set up by the time the ball is anywhere near their penalty box.

Play Kante where Makale used to play and make use of Mount, Kovacic and Barkley for the other two midfield slots. That doesn't mean get rid of Jorginho, it just means we shouldn't go into every game seemingly convinced we need a deep lying playmaker whose contribution can occasionally be excellent but too often is negated by the teams we are up against. Pretty average managers and players are able to prevent Jorginho making major contributions to games.

His movement in the attacking 3rd is great, but when the ball gets in to him, he lacks the attacking instinct needed.

Dont think we need 2 dm in most games though. Jorginho or Kante for me, unless we have 4 quality players ahead of them.

21 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Kante was our best midfielder today, facts. Keep dreaming how he's the problem now doesn't matter the slightest.

Barkley was better and more effective when he came on. I thought Jorginho was better too. Kante just looks like somebody that is unsure on what he is supposed to be doing. I thought he was better in the second half, mainly because he was doing what he is best at, playing deeper, breaking up play and joining the attack as a support player rather than one of the main attackers.

In the first half, he was poor. Once again, he was making the wrong decisions in attacking areas, his passing was often played behind the man and he was leaving us exposed in the midfield because he was so far forward. 

He isn't a good attacking player, at all, it's as simple as that. He may pop up with the odd goal now and again, but that doesn't mean he is a good attacking midfielder. It's just not his natural game to play that role.   

We either drop Jorginho and a change the style of our game that better suits Kante, or we drop Kante and play somebody understands the position a bit better.

The problem is he isn't a attacking midfielder, he never has been and never will be.

It's a specialist position, we can't turn Kante into a guy who's great at shooting, does slide rule passes etc...

9 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Barkley was better and more effective when he came on. I thought Jorginho was better too. Kante just looks like somebody that is unsure on what he is supposed to be doing. I thought he was better in the second half, mainly because he was doing what he is best at, playing deeper, breaking up play and joining the attack as a support player rather than one of the main attackers.

In the first half, he was poor. Once again, he was making the wrong decisions in attacking areas, his passing was often played behind the man and he was leaving us exposed in the midfield because he was so far forward. 

He isn't a good attacking player, at all, it's as simple as that. He may pop up with the odd goal now and again, but that doesn't mean he is a good attacking midfielder. It's just not his natural game to play that role.   

We either drop Jorginho and a change the style of our game that better suits Kante, or we drop Kante and play somebody understands the position a bit better.

Or we get a better attacker since our midfield isn't a problem.

47 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Or we get a better attacker since our midfield isn't a problem.

If we had a goal scoring midfielder like Lampard was we might not need another attacker such is variability that exists in football and I suppose partly keeps it interesting.

Does anyone really expect Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic to be creative or offer much in an attacking sense, Mount is better going forward than them 3 put together but his out of form. We just don't have the players to break down stubborn defences. CHO hasn't got going, Barkley has been injured and likes partying, Willian has been our best player going forward and that says it all in my eyes. We don't have a back up striker or a Hazard to bail us out nearly every game, reminds me of last season really but Hazard was the difference.

Still got to be well happy with this season so far under the circumstances but we have to sign reinforcements this January, Cavani would be a good starting point.

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

Getting tired of highlighting it but he's a hinderance to ourselves when we face teams that sit deep. Teams are perfectly happy for him to have the ball in their third because they know he won't do much with it and that's exactly what happened today.

Him and Jorginho is a terrible combination and it's costing us.

 

This. 

 

No sympathy for Lampard today. Kante is his untouchable. Newcastle played like an away team today, sitting deep and looking to hit us with a sucker punch. Why play Jorginho and Kante? It makes zero sense. It's been proven it doesn't work against teams that set up that way. Barkley was in form, he's more creative, he has a cutting edge. Why drop him when he's playing well? Kovacic was the Prem's best midfielder until not so long ago yet he can't get a game even though he would offer us a bit more of what we need. Strange decisions from Frank lately. Why did Zouma get suddenly dropped? Newcastle knew they only had to lob it into the box and they would stand a good chance of scoring. So it proved. None of our CBs nor our keeper are particularly great but until we strengthen we need to play a CB pairing that can compete in the air. If I was a striker the CB I'd most like to play against is Christensen. 

 

Yes we dominated but we didn't have enough creativity or wit in midfield and we simply aren't good enough at defending crosses. No excuses for Frank today. He should have learned his lesson by now.

8 hours ago, Zeta said:

He's very important against better sides who attack us more, as he gets about and breaks up the play. But in the games against sides who sit back, especially at SB, we need more creativity in there.

Right Jorginho needs to play in a 3, needs a chaperone next to him to prevent him getting exposed and against the small teams who sit deep (about 14 teams), they are happy for him to pass the ball around in front of them. Kante thrives in bigger games (about 5 teams) where we see less of the ball as he can win back the ball. Against the smaller teams they are happy for him to have the ball as he can’t Consistently do a lot with the ball.  

Something needs to change though in the long term, and I feel we need to sell one of Jorginho or Kante simple as. Problem is I am not sure Lamps will ever make that call, not even sure he sees it as a problem.

Oh god, it's now we must sell Kante. Social media is ridiculous after a loss. 

Jorginho is a luxury player in the English league. He is much better suited to the Italian league where he is allowed space and time, or the French league which lacks competitiveness. He can be a nice player to watch, on occasion, but he offers no protection to a defence, and ours needs it, and whilst he can play the occasional attractive pass, his capacity as a playmaker is exaggerated. We will never compete domestically if Jorginho plays week in week out.

13 minutes ago, enigma said:

Oh god, it's now we must sell Kante. Social media is ridiculous after a loss. 

Listen to the fans here, all posts in total result that we should sell the following: Kante,CHO,Jorginho,Barkley,Emerson,Willian,Mount,Christensen,Michy,Kepa...Basically our own fans here would sell more than half of our starting lineup 😄

Edited January 18, 20206 yr by Gol15

1 hour ago, Strider6003 said:

If we had a goal scoring midfielder like Lampard was we might not need another attacker such is variability that exists in football and I suppose partly keeps it interesting.

Players like Lampard don't really exist part from him existing as himself...

Edited January 18, 20206 yr by Gol15

26 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Right Jorginho needs to play in a 3, needs a chaperone next to him to prevent him getting exposed and against the small teams who sit deep (about 14 teams), they are happy for him to pass the ball around in front of them. Kante thrives in bigger games (about 5 teams) where we see less of the ball as he can win back the ball. Against the smaller teams they are happy for him to have the ball as he can’t Consistently do a lot with the ball.  

Something needs to change though in the long term, and I feel we need to sell one of Jorginho or Kante simple as. Problem is I am not sure Lamps will ever make that call, not even sure he sees it as a problem.

We obvously need to sell all of them and play the youth. We don't need world class players what did they ever did for us who cares about winning big games anyway...

We got Abraham, Willian, Mount, Batman all missing big chances, yet people blame Kante for the lose. If Kante is being played in the wrong role, that sounds like the manager's fault more than Kante's inability to adapt. In a game like yesterday, it's up to the likes of Jorginho to find a pass in tight spaces ( great player maker should be able to do it more often), and the front line players be able finish the chances

I actually get a sense Kante himself is getting a bit frustrated through his body language, maybe at himself or the way things are going rather than the manager. I've rarely seen him take shots out of desperation like he did at points today, also I've never seen him celebrate out of relief as much as he did against Arsenal.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Listen to the fans here, all posts in total result that we should sell the following: Kante,CHO,Jorginho,Barkley,Emerson,Willian,Mount,Christensen,Michy,Kepa...Basically our own fans here would sell more than half of our starting lineup 😄

A tiny minority actually wants all of them sold, and almost nobody actually wants us to sell Kante, we just want to get the best out of him again. Criticising a player doesn't mean we want them sold.

2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

We got Abraham, Willian, Mount, Batman all missing big chances, yet people blame Kante for the lose. If Kante is being played in the wrong role, that sounds like the manager's fault more than Kante's inability to adapt. In a game like yesterday, it's up to the likes of Jorginho to find a pass in tight spaces ( great player maker should be able to do it more often), and the front line players be able finish the chances

Nobody is 100% blaming Kante for the defeat, look in the other threads and you will see a lot of criticism for other players too. But I don't think it's a coincidence that our form has nosedived since we broke up that Jorginho and Kovacic partnership, our win ratio with Kante in the side vs our win ratio without Kante shows there could be a problem.

I actually agree with the bit I have highlighted. Both Sarri and now Lampard are not using Kante to the best of his abilities. Kante should never be one of the main players in our attack, he should only be a support player at most. Kante is at his best starting from deep, breaking up play and joining in our attacks as a support player. Asking him to play such a forward role where we need him to pick out players in tight spaces, play clever passes, assist and score goals...well, it's stupid, those are not his strengths.

23 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

A tiny minority actually wants all of them sold, and almost nobody actually wants us to sell Kante, we just want to get the best out of him again. Criticising a player doesn't mean we want them sold.

Nobody is 100% blaming Kante for the defeat, look in the other threads and you will see a lot of criticism for other players too. But I don't think it's a coincidence that our form has nosedived since we broke up that Jorginho and Kovacic partnership, our win ratio with Kante in the side vs our win ratio without Kante shows there could be a problem.

I actually agree with the bit I have highlighted. Both Sarri and now Lampard are not using Kante to the best of his abilities. Kante should never be one of the main players in our attack, he should only be a support player at most. Kante is at his best starting from deep, breaking up play and joining in our attacks as a support player. Asking him to play such a forward role where we need him to pick out players in tight spaces, play clever passes, assist and score goals...well, it's stupid, those are not his strengths.

In almost every page there are the same people that said less than a year ago that Kante "doesn't fit in our system" and you don't need to scroll back a page to find one more chat about how someone wouldn't mind selling Kante for 100m. Spear me this talk, it's only strawmanning and nothing else. Kante does his roll well, he's a 7.0 midfielder for us any day of the week. Had Kante scored today from a dead angle everyone would just wait for the next game to bash him, but the keeper saved his shot it's that simple. 

It's not his fault that NOBODY else is running into space properly and that nobody that is actually expected to score, doesn't actually score. He's trying to do it all for the team and somehow that's a problem?
Even if Kante had 5 more interceptions and what not this game, it still doesn't change anything since nobody from our attack showed up, we had 70% possession and even some counter attack, how is Kante responsible that others are not doing their roles?
He's actually going forward since nobody else is doing it, Mount has had quiet games for a while now and he keeps starting but somehow Kante is the problem and Frank's untouchable? All false accusations, yet similar to last season when people were moaning about how Sarri plays Kante in a bad way, how did that turn out btw? Ah yes Kante had his best scoring season in his career and we finished 3rd in the league. 

Like I said, Kante was out best performing midfielder today, he lost Hazard and it's showing he is the only world class player in the squad now and it's not fair to constantly complain about him when he's doing his role just fine.
 

Frankie after the game:

Do you feel like you want to play two up front at all?

“Sometimes, if the game feels that way. In that case it would have meant bringing off maybe N’Golo Kante, who was outstanding all game..."

 

Edited January 19, 20206 yr by Gol15