N'golo Kante - We are not worthy!

[big blue]

23 minutes ago, Argo said:

He played in a 2 with Matuidi.

Kante sitting is the definition of a better on paper than in practice solution, his proactive instincts always get the better of him. I can only recall him playing sitter twice, once was in Euro16 where he was dropped before the quarters and the other was Conte's first six games where it went to badly he overhauled the entire system, Ozil's goal against us sum up the dangers of having Kante as a sitting DM in a nutshell.

i would definitely say it was more of 3 with matuidi and pogba either side. 

Either way, if he didnt, and those 2 games are the only 2 you remember, how is that a big enough sample size, to make the sweeping statement in your first sentence? 

Personally i think it would be worth trying to see if we get better balance. 

He has improved his attacking game, why couldnt he improve in the holding role? 

[Argo]

1 minute ago, big blue said:

i would definitely say it was more of 3 with matuidi and pogba either side. 

Either way, if he didnt, and those 2 games are the only 2 you remember, how is that a big enough sample size, to make the sweeping statement in your first sentence? 

Personally i think it would be worth trying to see if we get better balance. 

He has improved his attacking game, why couldnt he improve in the holding role? 

Not just two games, the games he played in Euro16 plus the early games under Conte. Two minutes into his Chelsea career he was booked due to vacating his position to win a ball high up failing and having to chop a player down to prevent a clean run at our defense.

I think our midfield conundrum is relatively straightforward if I'm honest. Kovacic/Jorginho works well, so does Kovacic/Kante however Kante/Jorginho really doesn't work, infact I'll go as far as saying from early evidence that even Barkley works better with Jorginho than Kante does.

So with that in mind, it's Kovacic plus one for me.

[big blue]

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

Not just two games, the games he played in Euro16 plus the early games under Conte. Two minutes into his Chelsea career he was booked due to vacating his position to win a ball high up failing and having to chop a player down to prevent a clean run at our defense.

I think our midfield conundrum is relatively straightforward if I'm honest. Kovacic/Jorginho works well, so does Kovacic/Kante however Kante/Jorginho really doesn't work, infact I'll go as far as saying from early evidence that even Barkley works better with Jorginho than Kante does.

So with that in mind, it's Kovacic plus one for me.

You just said you can only recall him playing sitter twice? 

Now you are saying he has played there more in order to justify your opinion that it cant and wont work. 

Im not saying your wrong, buy surely you can see you are switching the narrative to fit your opinion? 

Either way, it is clear kante hasnt played there a lot, certainly not enough to say whether it will work or not. 

Under conte i thinks important to remember kante was new to the team, we also had a dodgy back 4 aswell. 

I just think its worth giving it a try, 5 defeats in 7, something needs to change. 

Why not try kante as a dm to get get more attacking players on the pitch.

[Gol15]

Frank needs to go back to 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. It fits for Kante and it fits for Tammy. This 5-2-3/3-4-3 worked against Spurs it was a tactical game but it shouldn't have been our formation against Southampton.

You can make an argument that the 4-3-3 could be ideal and that's fine but in some games our midfield was just too passive and it was actually Kante that made the most runs forward in that scenario, the fix for the 4-3-3 was to play Kovacic-Kante-Mount where Mount was making the most offensive effort, this is still maybe our best formation all things considered, Mount gets to be all over the pitch and on the wide areas as well which suits him, Pulisic gets to be involved as well as a winger.

Our best player is Kante, if he isn't playing well then something must be wrong with the tactic. Last season he adapted to the Sarriball and this season he performed really well in almost all big games we had so far, there is something missing in preparation when it comes to these games against teams that we already won on paper and that's hurting us.

Arsenal will be a hard team to beat away, they might just also sit back and wait for their chances to come because by now everyone knows that there will always be chances against us, the difference is their players are way better, if we play with a back 3 I can already see our backline falling apart again. But if we play 4-2-3-1 we will create chances for Tammy, or with the 4-3-3 with Mount in the midfield and Jorginho on the bench.

[Argo]

56 minutes ago, big blue said:

You just said you can only recall him playing sitter twice? 

Now you are saying he has played there more in order to justify your opinion that it cant and wont work. 

Im not saying your wrong, buy surely you can see you are switching the narrative to fit your opinion? 

Either way, it is clear kante hasnt played there a lot, certainly not enough to say whether it will work or not. 

Under conte i thinks important to remember kante was new to the team, we also had a dodgy back 4 aswell. 

I just think its worth giving it a try, 5 defeats in 7, something needs to change. 

Why not try kante as a dm to get get more attacking players on the pitch.

When I said "twice" I meant two circumstances, one of which being Euro16 and the other being Conte's first set of games pre the 3atb switch.

[Brutos]

I think the debate of Kante as a sitting midfielder is now well and truly put to bed Sarri, Conte and Ranieri all seem to have got his position correct as box to box midfielder and got the best out of him.

He is short of form but it happens I would suggest we go back to Kova -Jorginho or Kova-Jorginho-Kante starting exactly in that order Jorginho at the Base with Kova left and Kante right.

Kante seems to enjoy that right channel when asked to press and win the ball back high something I haven't seen him do since he came back from injury

[Slojo]

Made some good recovery runs against Arsenal that were crucial, for example Lacazette's first chance which should've been a better touch from him. 

But he hasn't been good enough lately in my opinion, it's not the Kante we are used to. I think we should sit him out for a bit. 

[Jangz]

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Made some good recovery runs against Arsenal that were crucial, for example Lacazette's first chance which should've been a better touch from him. 

But he hasn't been good enough lately in my opinion, it's not the Kante we are used to. I think we should sit him out for a bit. 

after two seasons of seeing him largely as part of a mid field trio .. i am starting to forget who our old Kante is.. He still breaks up play often enough does drive with the ball and wins fouls aswell... and reminds me more of essien..  in a top team i dont think there is a place for a player whose predominant role is to break up play .. especially when we have Jorgi in the same midfield..

[Guest Sindre]

I don't care what anyone says, he's having a shocking season. He's not half the player he was under Conte, wasn't last season either.

Lampard is having a shocker forcing him into the side no matter what as well, Jorginho-Kante pivot is a disaster and have been every time and yet he still persists with it. Probably going to cost us top four.

 

 

[jack_super_class]

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I don't care what anyone says, he's having a shocking season. He's not half the player he was under Conte, wasn't last season either.

Lampard is having a shocker forcing him into the side no matter what as well, Jorginho-Kante pivot is a disaster and have been every time and yet he still persists with it. Probably going to cost us top four.

 

 

I thought he played ok, Mount was the poor one.

[Ukraine Bolt]

3 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

I thought he played ok, Mount was the poor one.

Yet we lost control once Mount went off.

[ducavis]

3 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

I thought he played ok, Mount was the poor one.

Thank You! Should have started ahead of Willian for me who can’t seem to get dropped.

[Ukraine Bolt]

Go back to the Jorginho-Kovacic pivot in future. Mount just in front. kante is world class, but is having a poor season and doesn't offer anything atm. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by RIP Mourinho

[Bluesince66]

Kante has lost his mojo.

[Slojo]

Already been told I have a vendetta against him but I'm just being brutally honest, he hasn't been good enough since he came back from injury. Lampard needs to drop him, he's getting picked purely on reputation now. It's not to say he's been awful, but he isn't offering enough, I know we had defensive limitations with Kovacic-Jorginho in the midfield, but we at least at excellent distribution with both playing at the same time.  With Kante we just don't have it, and we're not exactly impeccable defensively either... 

[sonic90]

If he is to be in the side he has to be sitting as a DMF, running up the pitch and losing the ball and not having time to get back is not a good use of him.

"Oh but it's a a waste he's not a holding MF, you know nothing about his position" It's the only thing he's good for in his current state, that or drop him.

[Scott Harris]

27 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

I thought he played ok, Mount was the poor one.

Mount was poor too, but Kante has been playing like this pretty much all season, especially against sides like Brighton. He looks okay in the big games where he is given space to play, but in games like today, he looks average.

[jack_super_class]

19 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Mount was poor too, but Kante has been playing like this pretty much all season, especially against sides like Brighton. He looks okay in the big games where he is given space to play, but in games like today, he looks average.

You're right they were both poor, but Kante was still better than Mount for me. Mount is suppose to be the creative one in the midfield and he doesn't do enough for me.

[Deino]

I know the general consensus is playing  Kante is like having 12 people in the team but that's only good when he is instructed to get involved in 1 phase of the play. He's good moving horizontally from left to right since he has time to be the extra man in pressing the opponent. He has decent talent in passing but is limited in vision as his all around game have always been to cut passing lanes. He may spot an obvious long pass but that's it.

The role he's playing now is almost impossible to pull off because he has to affect all 3 passages of play. He now needs to be the No. 6 in applying pressure to attackers and shield the back four when defending, being a ball carrier/passer No. 8 in midfield building the play and be the No. 10 attacking the holes and press the opponent's CB/DM when we don't have the ball. He can be superhuman at times but even he can't do all that all game long. It's ludicrous

Edited January 1, 2020 by Deino

[2211]

Kante wasn’t good today but most of our players underperformed.

The problem for me is expecting him to be this creative midfielder as part of his roles within the team.

The sooner we address that situation then he can get back to what he does best.

[haviet1]

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Already been told I have a vendetta against him but I'm just being brutally honest, he hasn't been good enough since he came back from injury. Lampard needs to drop him, he's getting picked purely on reputation now. It's not to say he's been awful, but he isn't offering enough, I know we had defensive limitations with Kovacic-Jorginho in the midfield, but we at least at excellent distribution with both playing at the same time.  With Kante we just don't have it, and we're not exactly impeccable defensively either... 

I know Kante hasn't been good, but how much of that is because of Lamp asking him to do too much?

Just let him sit on top of the defense to break plays, he's the best in the world doing just that. Play to his strengths and you will have an incredible player on your hands. Lamp is setting him up too look poor, IMO.

 

 

 

[Brutos]

Some simple passed look like hard work for him this season give him a rest for a month keep him on the best in case you need him

[Sexyfootball]

I still think that only two out of three of Kovacic, Kante and Jorginho can play if we want to have a balanced midfield.

Right now, it would be Jorginho and Kovacic for me.

 

[WhiteWall]

3 hours ago, Deino said:

I know the general consensus is playing  Kante is like having 12 people in the team but that's only good when he is instructed to get involved in 1 phase of the play. He's good moving horizontally from left to right since he has time to be the extra man in pressing the opponent. He has decent talent in passing but is limited in vision as his all around game have always been to cut passing lanes. He may spot an obvious long pass but that's it.

The role he's playing now is almost impossible to pull off because he has to affect all 3 passages of play. He now needs to be the No. 6 in applying pressure to attackers and shield the back four when defending, being a ball carrier/passer No. 8 in midfield building the play and be the No. 10 attacking the holes and press the opponent's CB/DM when we don't have the ball. He can be superhuman at times but even he can't do all that all game long. It's ludicrous

Do you not feel though, that we all have a bit of a cheek, questioning the worth of a player that wonea world cup and back to back league championships with different clubs in a position that he made his own. And now, of course, its his fault for not being able to play three roles simultaneously.

I know nothing about football because to my simple brain i think the best tactic is to pick 11 players and play them in the positions that they are best in. Silly me.

Also, if he is expected to play in three passages of play then surely it means somebody else is having a cheat up out there. Doesn't it?

[strider6004]

I would like to see a bit more of Kova and Jorgy and then if not working Kante and Kova.

I think we have evolved as a team since Kante first came to us and with a different formation and so am not sure where he ideally fits.

There is also a question mark over his form since the injury.

Since his injury I have noticed when he first gets a ball he kicks it 3 foot forwards and other teams have noticed and closed him down quickly and the other thing he has come off second best in a couple of 50:50's recently.

I don't think he is playing badly just not making things happen like he has in the past.