N'golo Kante - We are not worthy!

[dansubrosa]

Be careful what you wish for - It seems like one of these cases where you don’t know what you’ve got until he’s gone. For me he’s been outstanding, the game against Lille he was outstanding.

Hes undroppable for me, genuinely think he is the best midfielder in the world. Sure, he can’t dribble like Kovacic, he can’t spray passes like Fabregas but he’s effing brilliant! 

[Slojo]

I think he has been great in the big games, but against the smaller teams I don't know... 

I'm in the minority here but I dont' think Kante has been as good as he was since under Conte, a lot of people prefer him upfield though. But forget that at the moment, since he has came back and we've stopped playing with Jorginho and Kovacic we haven't been that good at breaking teams down, every game now reminds me of Newcastle early in the season, when we couldn't break them down because they had 10 men behind the ball. Now it's not even that, teams are just comfortable defending against us because we move the ball so slowly. 

Is Kante coming back having a negative affect or am I reaching here? I know it sounds silly because he's one of our best players if not our best, but you can't help but feel the midfield has been inferior since he has returned, at least from an attacking sense. 

[Ukraine Bolt]

4 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

I reckon the manager should just let him do what he's been doing great for years, that's covering the defence, do the hard yard, be the unsung hero, I could be mistaken, unless Kante himself wanted to change his playing role, why changing a piece of your jigsaw that's been working, and making it into something else. Sarri's been mucking around with Kante the whol season, that's started his decline in defensive work. Now, Lampard is on a similar route, I don't dobut Kante will improve and chip in a few goals, but what's the cost? We probably conceded more because he's not doing his previous job, and nobody is doing it. Once you have a great player like Kante covers the central defenders, the fullback could bomb forward without fear, we aren't going to be caught out everytime someone loses the ball. A goal saved is as good as a goal scored.

Kante has never done this. Always been a box to box runner.

[Gol15]

Guardian has this top 100 players list;

So far they put put from 99 to 11, the top 10 is still not published from what I saw. Anyway Kante is among the top 22 players in the world, other players from our team are: Jorginho 62, Abraham 87.

I compared this list with the one from the previous year, we had 2 players among the top 10, Kante was top 10 and Hazard top 7. Maybe just maybe, Pulisic might be among the top 10 this year, though seeing that Sancho is ranked 32nd, it would be, maybe too much of a strech to have Pulisic among the top 10? I mean not even De Bruyne is in the top 10, maybe Pulisic isn't on the list at all, he's still young and a great talent anyway.

Clearly the World Cup had a lot to do with ranking players last year, it looks unbalanced that Kante went from top 10 to 22nd place, sure he had an injury but honestly a quarter of last season he was adapting to the Sarri ball, but he did win the World Cup.

In any case, he's our best player, selling him would be a mistake, unless of course he really wants to move for some reason and wouldn't be willing to change his mind.

 

[yorkleyblue]

On 17/12/2019 at 14:05, RIP Mourinho said:

Kante has never done this. Always been a box to box runner.

[Gol15]

On 20/12/2019 at 02:21, Gol15 said:

Guardian has this top 100 players list;

So far they put put from 99 to 11, the top 10 is still not published from what I saw. Anyway Kante is among the top 22 players in the world, other players from our team are: Jorginho 62, Abraham 87.

I compared this list with the one from the previous year, we had 2 players among the top 10, Kante was top 10 and Hazard top 7. Maybe just maybe, Pulisic might be among the top 10 this year, though seeing that Sancho is ranked 32nd, it would be, maybe too much of a strech to have Pulisic among the top 10? I mean not even De Bruyne is in the top 10, maybe Pulisic isn't on the list at all, he's still young and a great talent anyway.

Clearly the World Cup had a lot to do with ranking players last year, it looks unbalanced that Kante went from top 10 to 22nd place, sure he had an injury but honestly a quarter of last season he was adapting to the Sarri ball, but he did win the World Cup.

In any case, he's our best player, selling him would be a mistake, unless of course he really wants to move for some reason and wouldn't be willing to change his mind.

 

Just to update, Liverpool has 4 players in the top 10 of the world according to the Guardian. Manchester City in top 20 has 4 players, Spurs 2. We have Kante at 22. And no Pulisic is not in the list, yet. Another sign that we are rebuilding.

[strider6004]

Impressed with Kante today, high work rate and intelligent play.

[Scott Harris]

Much more like himself today.

[charierre]

Outstanding today, the formation change brought the best out of him

[big blue]

always better in a midfield 2 in my opinion. 

 

 

[Davey Baby]

Excellent, although he should have shot when he was clean through. That would have been the cherry on top.

[robdog]

 

[Guest Sindre]

On 15/12/2019 at 16:15, Sindre said:

Controversial opinion but againt the so called "weaker" teams he should not be playing.

I still stand by this. He's a hinderance to ourselves in games like todays and i don't know how many examples of it we need to get before something is done about it.

Another absymal showing at home.

[Scott Harris]

And I got stick for saying he should be left out of the first 11 against these defensive sides because he's the one world class player in the squad, well that one world class player is hurting us as a team. The teams performance has to come before any player, and since Kante was put back into the team, we have looked much worse.

Kante has never looked comfortable in this role, at least not consistently and certainly not against defensive teams. In all honesty, he looks quite sh*t at it. Kante didn't get his reputation as being one of the best midfielders playing the way he is. He got his reputation for hounding players, winning the ball, and setting his team up on the counter attack and being a runner from deep to join in an attack. He's not even half the player playing the way he currently is. He's playing too much of a role in our attacking game and to be blunt, he's sh*t at it against most teams.

He can barely control the ball, he bundles his way through and losses it easily, his decision making and passing is poor. He just isn't very good in this role, we have been seeing it all season and many times last season too. Against the top teams, it works, but that is because he is given space to play and run around a bit more. He doesn't have the ability or natural instincts to know how to play a more attacking role against teams that defend. I was hoping we would ditch it now that Sarri is gone, but Lampard is now doing the same and it's a bigger issue than it was last season.

He has been awful in pretty much every game we have played against these teams this season and nothing will change until either he is dropped against these teams, or we play him in a role that gets the best out of him. 

[sonic90]

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

And I got stick for saying he should be left out of the first 11 against these defensive sides because he's the one world class player in the squad, well that one world class player is hurting us as a team. The teams performance has to come before any player, and since Kante was put back into the team, we have looked much worse.

Kante has never looked comfortable in this role, at least not consistently and certainly not against defensive teams. In all honesty, he looks quite sh*t at it. Kante didn't get his reputation as being one of the best midfielders playing the way he is. He got his reputation for hounding players, winning the ball, and setting his team up on the counter attack and being a runner from deep to join in an attack. He's not even half the player playing the way he currently is. He's playing too much of a role in our attacking game and to be blunt, he's sh*t at it against most teams.

He can barely control the ball, he bundles his way through and losses it easily, his decision making and passing is poor. He just isn't very good in this role, we have been seeing it all season and many times last season too. Against the top teams, it works, but that is because he is given space to play and run around a bit more. He doesn't have the ability or natural instincts to know how to play a more attacking role against teams that defend. I was hoping we would ditch it now that Sarri is gone, but Lampard is now doing the same and it's a bigger issue than it was last season.

He has been awful in pretty much every game we have played against these teams this season and nothing will change until either he is dropped against these teams, or we play him in a role that gets the best out of him. 

Sometimes he can dribble past players, create opportunities and even score but he can't do it reliably enough to make it worth playing him in this role. Teams are placing more defensive pressure on wide areas when Kante has the ball cause they know he can't do anything with it, so when he looks up and the wide players are marked to death and can't be passed to, he finds himself in the number 10 position and has to create for Tammy or dribble past the CBs and score himself. Kovacic is better at keeping the ball, dribbling past players and attacking passes so it's no wonder why we do better with him. 

[goose]

Had a wonderful game against Spuds so it was very disappointing to see today’s performance. He has a lot more in his locker than high energy and tackling. His ball control, dribbling, passing and shooting are all good but today was probably the worst I’ve seen him in a Chelsea shirt.

[Gol15]

19 minutes ago, goose said:

Had a wonderful game against Spuds so it was very disappointing to see today’s performance. He has a lot more in his locker than high energy and tackling. His ball control, dribbling, passing and shooting are all good but today was probably the worst I’ve seen him in a Chelsea shirt.

When this world class player fails to make an impact against a lower end team, you have to question the manager more than the player himself.

[Nibs]

23 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

When this world class player fails to make an impact against a lower end team, you have to question the manager more than the player himself.

............or maybe he just had an off day?

All players have bad games - I think Kante has had enough great games to be excused the odd bad one. Same can't be said for some of his team-mates though.

[Guest Sindre]

10 minutes ago, Nibs said:

............or maybe he just had an off day?

All players have bad games - I think Kante has had enough great games to be excused the odd bad one. Same can't be said for some of his team-mates though.

I don't think its about him having off days and more about not being suited to our style of play. Especially against teams that sit back against us and look to counter.

Kante made his name in defensive minded, counterattacking teams under Ranieri and Conte. The fact that he was one of the absolute best midfielders in the world in that kind of a system doesn't mean he'll be the same player in a different one. He certainly wasn't world-class or anywhere close to that last season and unfortunately he hasn't been this season either.

[strider6004]

Kante didn't have a great match today yet was still one of our players likely to create something.

He didn't just play it safe he went forward dribbling and looking for a killer pass yet encountered too many bodies.

Today it seemed only Kante and Jorginho could take the ball hold-off a defender and turn in either direction. 

He lost the ball a few times yet was still one of our better players today, I wondered if he was going to create a goal like he did against Liverpool. 

[2211]

The problem is he isn't a creative player, he can do it, sometimes, but he wasn't bought for his slide rule passes, goals from midfield or killer assists.

If we are relying on him to be our Kevin De Bryne against deep sitting teams at The Bridge then we've got a big problem.

Edited December 26, 2019 by 2211

[Scott Harris]

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

............or maybe he just had an off day?

All players have bad games - I think Kante has had enough great games to be excused the odd bad one. Same can't be said for some of his team-mates though.

It's not the odd bad game with Kante though, he's been like this against almost every team that has played like Southampton this season. The only games I can remember Kante playing well in is the big games, the rest he has been one of the worst players on the pitch. It was a similar story last season, just not quite as bad as it currently is. Kante is not getting to grips with this role in the team, he's just getting worse. 

If Lampard sticks with this, then I expect to see more and more days like today. He needs to find a way to get the best out of Kante, which means changing how we play, or he needs to drop him, because Kante in this role is rubbish.

[Davey Baby]

Kante is having a wretched season. Whether that's down to Frank's management, tactics, or whether that's down to Kante himself, is up for debate. Ultimately the manager is responsible for performances. That is the job of the manager. If Kante is performing badly Frank has to ask himself what he can do to change the situation.

 

Against Spurs Kante played excellently but towards the end he was clean through with only the keeper to beat. Instead of shooting he paused, let the defender catch him up and then tried to turn on to his stronger foot, and he got tackled. That summed up his season. Too many touches. Kante needs to keep it simple. That's his game. He's getting caught so much in possession it's not funny. 

 

Kante for Leicester and for Conte was a phenomenon, but right now our best midfielder by a mile is Kovacic. Previously I've expressed doubts about Jorginho but there's no doubt he linked up well with Kovacic, from a technical point of view. I'd be tempted to try Kovacic alongside Reece James in midfield, because I think we'd be less vulnerable to the sucker punch, we'd be more physical in the middle of the park, and Kovacic might flourish even more with a minder beside him. I think it might be worth a go next time we play a supposed weaker team at home.

 

Edit: I wanted Ampadu to stay because I thought he might make that position his own but right now I'd be tempted to try James. Regardless, those saying it's time to drop Kante in these games might have a point.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Davey Baby

[big blue]

I just think its the lack of quality from the attacking players, exposes kante's limitations in games like yesterday. 

If we had dangerous full backs, wingers, and a creative number 10, then kante would be able to play his game, win the ball, play it simple, carry it forward if possible. 

As it is now, kante sees too much of the ball, because there isnt enough quality or people taking responsibility ahead of him.  

Yesterday was an extreme because kante was unusually poor on the ball, and we had an unusually defensive line up. 

Also i think there is an argument for having kante sit at the base of midfield, and let us play more attacking players in front of him. I know that isnt where he has excelled in the past, but Makelele wasnt in the 'Makelele role' until his late 20's. Surely it would be less of a stretch to turn Kante into a holding midfielder, than it would be to turn him into an attacking one, which is what has been attempted for 18 months now. He played there for France and they won the world cup. 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by big blue

[Argo]

3 hours ago, big blue said:

I just think its the lack of quality from the attacking players, exposes kante's limitations in games like yesterday. 

If we had dangerous full backs, wingers, and a creative number 10, then kante would be able to play his game, win the ball, play it simple, carry it forward if possible. 

As it is now, kante sees too much of the ball, because there isnt enough quality or people taking responsibility ahead of him.  

Yesterday was an extreme because kante was unusually poor on the ball, and we had an unusually defensive line up. 

Also i think there is an argument for having kante sit at the base of midfield, and let us play more attacking players in front of him. I know that isnt where he has excelled in the past, but Makelele wasnt in the 'Makelele role' until his late 20's. Surely it would be less of a stretch to turn Kante into a holding midfielder, than it would be to turn him into an attacking one, which is what has been attempted for 18 months now. He played there for France and they won the world cup. 

He played in a 2 with Matuidi.

Kante sitting is the definition of a better on paper than in practice solution, his proactive instincts always get the better of him. I can only recall him playing sitter twice, once was in Euro16 where he was dropped before the quarters and the other was Conte's first six games where it went to badly he overhauled the entire system, Ozil's goal against us sum up the dangers of having Kante as a sitting DM in a nutshell.