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David Luiz back at Chelsea

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1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

Do we though.

Neither Cahill or Christensen appear to be good enough with the ball at their feet for this system. Ampadu is probably the best natural ball playing defender in the squad but i think Sarri, like so many managers, is determined not to go with a player of such a young age. Its a shame because i am convinced he would massively improve with first team exposure.

Proper over the top. Luiz, Rudiger and Christensen are all better with the ball at their feet. We sure love overstating youngsters abilities. 

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I actually think Christiansen is pretty decent with the ball at his feet. I mean he only has to play it 5 yards to Jorginho . I also believe he is a genuine potential world class defender, JT always said he was the one to replace him. He may not be the complete article yet but I think we need to be giving him the majority of minutes available. Luiz or Cahill are definitely not getting any better at their age, but good squad depth.

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1 hour ago, Adamrb said:

I actually think Christiansen is pretty decent with the ball at his feet. I mean he only has to play it 5 yards to Jorginho . I also believe he is a genuine potential world class defender, JT always said he was the one to replace him. He may not be the complete article yet but I think we need to be giving him the majority of minutes available. Luiz or Cahill are definitely not getting any better at their age, but good squad depth.

Not at all, Christensen looked awful with the ball at his feet last season, he looked worse than Zouma with it. 

As bad as Luiz was don't pretend all he's doing is 5 yard passes, far more to it than that. I think I'll have to compile some more gif images to get my message across here but Luiz has superb delivery from the back and he's very composed with the ball even when he has 2-3 attackers around him, that's a brilliant trait for increasing attacking momentum. Him and Rudiger are superb at the back for that, but obviously, we are going to leak goals with David Luiz, his concentration levels are piss poor. 

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3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Proper over the top. Luiz, Rudiger and Christensen are all better with the ball at their feet. We sure love overstating youngsters abilities. 

You should also apply this with RLC. 

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4 hours ago, Slojo said:

Not at all, Christensen looked awful with the ball at his feet last season, he looked worse than Zouma with it. 

As bad as Luiz was don't pretend all he's doing is 5 yard passes, far more to it than that. I think I'll have to compile some more gif images to get my message across here but Luiz has superb delivery from the back and he's very composed with the ball even when he has 2-3 attackers around him, that's a brilliant trait for increasing attacking momentum. Him and Rudiger are superb at the back for that, but obviously, we are going to leak goals with David Luiz, his concentration levels are piss poor. 

I dont have proof but i just know that when David Luiz pisses, the urine makes its way into the potty.  :P

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Where is this myth coming from that Christensen is not good with the ball at his feet? When it comes to first touch and keeping the ball under pressure I would trust him over Luiz, when it comes to passing for me he's number 3 out of our centre backs, ranking closely behind Rüdiger. Number one in this regard is obviously David Luiz.

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18 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

Where is this myth coming from that Christensen is not good with the ball at his feet? When it comes to first touch and keeping the ball under pressure I would trust him over Luiz, when it comes to passing for me he's number 3 out of our centre backs, ranking closely behind Rüdiger. Number one in this regard is obviously David Luiz.

Hardly a myth is it, the signs were always there and as soon as this happened his confidence was gone for the rest of the season, he was mucking up a lot of passes.

A defender who's good with the ball at his feet doesn't make mistakes like this, for all Luiz's downfalls he's definitely much much better than Christensen with the ball at his feet. 

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2 hours ago, True Blue23 said:

Where is this myth coming from that Christensen is not good with the ball at his feet? When it comes to first touch and keeping the ball under pressure I would trust him over Luiz, when it comes to passing for me he's number 3 out of our centre backs, ranking closely behind Rüdiger. Number one in this regard is obviously David Luiz.

Completely agree with you on this - Christensen is great with the ball at his feet. Åge Hareide actually thinks Christensen's best position could be center-mid due to his technical abilities on the ball, and this is where he regularly plays him for the national team.

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2 hours ago, Slojo said:

Hardly a myth is it, the signs were always there and as soon as this happened his confidence was gone for the rest of the season, he was mucking up a lot of passes.

A defender who's good with the ball at his feet doesn't make mistakes like this, for all Luiz's downfalls he's definitely much much better than Christensen with the ball at his feet. 

I was about to say that he made a couple of high profile mistakes last season and that’s what people tend to remember. The one in this video is probably the worst. So now he has a reputation as being almost a liability on the ball which is very unfair, a bit like how Morata gained a reputation for being useless at one-on-one situations after missing a couple of chances in quick succession last year.

I think the video shows a young player who’s lack of experience (against top class opposition at least) caused him to make a bad judgement. He will have learnt from that and I bet the next time he’s in a similar situation he won’t be taking any silly risks.

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Christensen was developing so well but even for a young player that Barca suicide pass was unforgivable, it cost us really dearly and was just not necessary, having said that I think he needs minutes and to get his confidence back, there is a top player in there and he can’t stubt his development based on a couple of errors, all be it massive ones. Luis can’t play in a back 4 he, saying he can’t defend isn’t fair at tines his defending is brilliant, it’s his concentration and decision making, we will have a brainfart or fall asleep and refuse to jump like the Newcastle goal and at this level mistakes by CB’s are costly....it’s a dilemma, we needed a new CB, I said that a lot and the feedback was we are stacked in that position...we have players yes, but maybe not the right players we need. 

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2 hours ago, bluedave said:

I was about to say that he made a couple of high profile mistakes last season and that’s what people tend to remember. The one in this video is probably the worst. So now he has a reputation as being almost a liability on the ball which is very unfair, a bit like how Morata gained a reputation for being useless at one-on-one situations after missing a couple of chances in quick succession last year.

I think the video shows a young player who’s lack of experience (against top class opposition at least) caused him to make a bad judgement. He will have learnt from that and I bet the next time he’s in a similar situation he won’t be taking any silly risks.

I know what you mean and that's obviously the most scapegoated example but from what I've seen and I was saying this before the Barca game btw is that his distribution and retention at the back is poor.

Liability? Not really, but saying he's better than David Luiz with the ball is simply not true. It's like saying Danny Ings is a better striker than Aguero, it's just not true. Christensen as good as he is he's not comfortable on the ball, I've never seen evidence of it in a Chelsea shirt. He seems very much like Zouma whenever he receives it, wants to get rid of it as soon as he gets it, the most he can do is a sideways pass. 

Whereas David Luiz loves to get on the ball because he can always make a diagonal ball or touch it forward and knock it into space, same with Rudiger. 

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I know Sarri likes Luiz for his passing ability, but lets be honest Christensen isnt exactly "bad" at it is he? Hes a good distributor of the ball as well, I definitely think he needs to start alongside Rudiger (who is a beast) 

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I don't get why Luiz gets so much criticism here. We changed the system. If an opponent gets close to our box we will always be in trouble as is City or Barcelona for 10 seasons. The aim is to have the ball most of the time. Building from the back is important as well. Luiz is probably the coolest and best from our defenders to do so. Par Rudiger. 

Now I'm not saying Luiz is the go-to guy forever but at the moment he is our best option. Christensen and Ampadu in time will be good at it. Cahill is 33 and we have seen his limitations. He can't build from the back hence Sarri can't use him most of the time. 

Plus Luiz is well liked and had leadership skills as Sarri has already stated. As we are building this new system Luiz is great to have due to his experience. 

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31 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I know what you mean and that's obviously the most scapegoated example but from what I've seen and I was saying this before the Barca game btw is that his distribution and retention at the back is poor.

Liability? Not really, but saying he's better than David Luiz with the ball is simply not true. It's like saying Danny Ings is a better striker than Aguero, it's just not true. Christensen as good as he is he's not comfortable on the ball, I've never seen evidence of it in a Chelsea shirt. He seems very much like Zouma whenever he receives it, wants to get rid of it as soon as he gets it, the most he can do is a sideways pass. 

Whereas David Luiz loves to get on the ball because he can always make a diagonal ball or touch it forward and knock it into space, same with Rudiger. 

I'm not saying his distribution is better than David Luiz because that would be madness, so I agree about that. I'd rate his distribution as adequate based on what I've noticed. I don't think either Luiz or Christensen are the ideal player to start all of our games though. If we're expecting to have 80% possession then I'd be happy enough to see Luiz start because he is definitely more useful when we have the ball. If we're playing against equal or better opposition then I'd be much more comfortable with a proper defender like Christensen or even Cahill alongside Ruediger. Basically I think Christensen's (arguable) deficiency at distribution is less important overall than Luiz's multiple deficiencies as a defender.

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Even though it was a mistake from Luiz, I think its worth remembering it was in the context of Giroud just getting elbowed in the face. Yes he should have played to the whistle, but it wasn't a total loss of concentration out of absolutely nowhere. That one mess up aside, I think he's been pretty good so far this season, and he gives us a massive amount with his long range passing. 

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I think we are fortunate enough to be in a position where we've got competition for places with players offering us different skills depending on how expansive the Manager wants to be. I think rotation will be key, in games such as the weekend where we are likely to be on the front foot for majority of the time & have 2/3rd of possession I would prefer having Luiz whereas against better oppositions where there may be large spells where we have our backs against the wall I would prefer Christensen.

I just think its vital we use our full squad well, Guardiola and Pochetino have done well over the last couple of seasons rotating the defense around (Especially the wing backs) which have kept things & players fresh for them. We need to get to a point where our squad has the match fitness to come in whenever required and perform at an elite level.

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1 hour ago, Slojo said:

I know what you mean and that's obviously the most scapegoated example but from what I've seen and I was saying this before the Barca game btw is that his distribution and retention at the back is poor.

Liability? Not really, but saying he's better than David Luiz with the ball is simply not true. It's like saying Danny Ings is a better striker than Aguero, it's just not true. Christensen as good as he is he's not comfortable on the ball, I've never seen evidence of it in a Chelsea shirt. He seems very much like Zouma whenever he receives it, wants to get rid of it as soon as he gets it, the most he can do is a sideways pass. 

Whereas David Luiz loves to get on the ball because he can always make a diagonal ball or touch it forward and knock it into space, same with Rudiger. 

If you read my post again you'll see that I never said that he's better at distributing the ball than Luiz. I disagree however that he's always passing it sideways and looks scared whenever he gets on the ball. It's not a coincidence that he was also played in midfield at youth level, and that Pep and Barcelona were keen on him. His Denmark manager even said this about him:

"He is really designed more like a midfielder than as a central defender.

“He moves well with the ball, has an overview and is strong mentally.

"He has a huge talent, and that's what Chelsea understood. But they use him as the central defender.

“I hope he can get up in the midfield in one way or another.

“He has a greater development potential than when he is in the back of the defence."

And yes I'm aware of Zouma also having a spell in midfield for us, but that was just Mourinho wanting to have some extra muscle in midfield against the big sides, and very few managers would do that at a top team.

 

Lastly the posting of the video is just such a lazy response. Every player has some lose passes that lead to chances for the opponents. Christensen had the bad luck that it was in a big game and lead to a goal. That doesn't make him bad on the ball. I can remember Cesc having at least 5 of those last season, where he wasn't aware of the opponents and playing risky passes in our final third that lead to good opportunities for them. Jorginho in his short time with us has already had 2 or 3 of those if you count the Pre Season. And lastly Luiz himself is the best example of somebody trying risky stuff that doesn't come of. Rewatch the 7:1 against Germany for example. Luiz was atrocious on and of the ball in that game, yet you wouldn't call him poor on the ball and on one level with Cahill would you?

 

 


 

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1 hour ago, evissy said:

I don't get why Luiz gets so much criticism here. We changed the system. If an opponent gets close to our box we will always be in trouble as is City or Barcelona for 10 seasons. The aim is to have the ball most of the time. Building from the back is important as well. Luiz is probably the coolest and best from our defenders to do so. Par Rudiger. 

Now I'm not saying Luiz is the go-to guy forever but at the moment he is our best option. Christensen and Ampadu in time will be good at it. Cahill is 33 and we have seen his limitations. He can't build from the back hence Sarri can't use him most of the time. 

Plus Luiz is well liked and had leadership skills as Sarri has already stated. As we are building this new system Luiz is great to have due to his experience. 

Tbf his defending and concentration levels are abysmal, two seasons ago he proved me wrong by all accounts. I want that Luiz back, but I can't be done with it if he's going to keep making one big mistake every game. 

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29 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Tbf his defending and concentration levels are abysmal, two seasons ago he proved me wrong by all accounts. I want that Luiz back, but I can't be done with it if he's going to keep making one big mistake every game. 

Two seasons back he was in a back 3 though, he is probably the best in the middle of a back 3 in the prem, the best I can think of anyway. All Chelsea fans know Luiz isn't great in a back 4, Luiz will make one big mistake every game, probably more against the big teams. So similar to Leboeuf who's passing was breathless and in a back 3 was superb, wasn't great in a back 4.

 

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7 hours ago, Slojo said:

Hardly a myth is it, the signs were always there and as soon as this happened his confidence was gone for the rest of the season, he was mucking up a lot of passes.

A defender who's good with the ball at his feet doesn't make mistakes like this, for all Luiz's downfalls he's definitely much much better than Christensen with the ball at his feet. 

Could find several videos like this from John Stones mistakes but he's still good with the ball at his feet. 

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8 hours ago, Slojo said:

Hardly a myth is it, the signs were always there and as soon as this happened his confidence was gone for the rest of the season, he was mucking up a lot of passes.

A defender who's good with the ball at his feet doesn't make mistakes like this, for all Luiz's downfalls he's definitely much much better than Christensen with the ball at his feet. 

What? This was a very risky pass, and that's it. It hardly shows that he is bad with the ball at his feet. Even Messi misplaces passes sometimes. Hazard misplaces his fair few. Pogba misplaces 20 passes a game.

I really don't get this leap of logic here. You misplace a pass or two and therefore you are bad with ball at your feet?

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1 hour ago, True Blue23 said:

If you read my post again you'll see that I never said that he's better at distributing the ball than Luiz. I disagree however that he's always passing it sideways and looks scared whenever he gets on the ball. It's not a coincidence that he was also played in midfield at youth level, and that Pep and Barcelona were keen on him. His Denmark manager even said this about him:

"He is really designed more like a midfielder than as a central defender.

“He moves well with the ball, has an overview and is strong mentally.

"He has a huge talent, and that's what Chelsea understood. But they use him as the central defender.

“I hope he can get up in the midfield in one way or another.

“He has a greater development potential than when he is in the back of the defence."

And yes I'm aware of Zouma also having a spell in midfield for us, but that was just Mourinho wanting to have some extra muscle in midfield against the big sides, and very few managers would do that at a top team.

 

Lastly the posting of the video is just such a lazy response. Every player has some lose passes that lead to chances for the opponents. Christensen had the bad luck that it was in a big game and lead to a goal. That doesn't make him bad on the ball. I can remember Cesc having at least 5 of those last season, where he wasn't aware of the opponents and playing risky passes in our final third that lead to good opportunities for them. Jorginho in his short time with us has already had 2 or 3 of those if you count the Pre Season. And lastly Luiz himself is the best example of somebody trying risky stuff that doesn't come of. Rewatch the 7:1 against Germany for example. Luiz was atrocious on and of the ball in that game, yet you wouldn't call him poor on the ball and on one level with Cahill would you?

 

 


 

I watched the video and read what he had written two times looking for the slightest hint of logic. It makes no sense.

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