6 hours ago, Slojo said:

I highly rate Pulisic, but coming to think of it Ziyech might be the one who we missed very badly. It's what he does in the middle of the pitch and pocket areas that are so important. It's a shame he won't have James to play with there often, those two were very dangerous and complimented one another very well. 

I don't think it could hurt giving Gilmour a run also. 

We won't miss Ziyech much if Lamp play CHO but some reason he insist on playing werner+puli combo 

There’s been abit of talk about Avram Grant, it’s so obvious he didn’t have a bloody clue. I mean, look at his Instagram for Christ’s sake 😂

 

Edited January 13, 20215 yr by dansubrosa

Oh dear...Avarm? Really? Not exactly experienced is he. I didn’t mind the guy but it was clear the strong dressing room got the team to thenCL final. Not sure what he would add to Lampard back room. 

Not the biggest fan of Falk but he is pretty accurate on transfers... However I wouldn't worry. Teams usually have the backups lined up anyway. This conversation came about in the press after our horrible results. 

 

I’m not convinced the back ups are much better. I like Tuchel as a character but not sure if he’s what we need. I think given the job Frank has done last season, he deserves time to finish it. The club have put a lot of work in putting the right structure in place so we should back it. 

22 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

The point of the post was you stated Lampard does not have a established playing philosophy style and relied on individual brilliance but a number of posters and myself have stated he has a system in place especially when everyone is fit.

You also shared an article which in itself stated that due to the hectic nature of the current season playing styles and tactics have gone out of the window and football has regressed tactically. So you can't criticize Lampard for lack of tactics when the article you shared talks about the negation of tactics due to the impacts of the global pandemic which I guess refers to the fixture congestion and lack of time on the training ground. 

Well, it looks like the Board at Chelsea also decided Lampard needs some help and appear to be bringing in someone to assist and I understand their thinking. The point of the article I shared was to indicate that due to the time limits in training a team like United can reach the top without tactics because they have the better goal scorers. The best teams in the league (unfortunately) City and Liverpool are still likely to fight out the title because they have experienced coaches who understand tactics, planning and automatisms. In three years of coaching, Lampard has shown no use of automatisms in his teams and what it means in all likelihood, Chelsea will not win the league or the CL in the future unless major changes are introduced. 

5 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I’m not convinced the back ups are much better. I like Tuchel as a character but not sure if he’s what we need. I think given the job Frank has done last season, he deserves time to finish it. The club have put a lot of work in putting the right structure in place so we should back it. 

I very much agree.

What i quite strongly believe though is that Top 4 is the very minimum Lampard needs to achieve this season. Without it I think he's history unfortunately. It's been the standard at the club for the last 10 years or so, before that it was a title-challenge or sack.

So Lampard's got a hell of a job on his hands. First and foremost we need to start winning again and if we do anything can happen.
But if he can't arrest the downward spiral and results continue to be bad and it becomes obvious that we will not be Top 4 at the end of the season I would be very surprised if he keeps his job unfortunately.

If, and I don't really believe it is, but if the Avram Grant story is true that is a terrible sign though.

Edited January 13, 20215 yr by Sindre

I would be very surprised if Avram came back and can only assume it would be as caretaker manager.

I think he previously did well due to the squad strength he inherited and his calming influence rather than tactical acumen.

Do the management think Lampard is too authoritarian and that Grant's more laid back style might bring forward the flair we have been missing?

Massive gamble for me as Grant only did well at CFC not the other EPL clubs.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Not the biggest fan of Falk but he is pretty accurate on transfers... However I wouldn't worry. Teams usually have the backups lined up anyway. This conversation came about in the press after our horrible results. 

 

Out of those options, I would prefer Rodgers. had big club (and premier league) experience at liverpool and importantly is keen to use/develop youth which Frank should get great credit for doing since he joined. If he left, id be worried we would revert to the "Win now, forget tomorrow" mentality and our youth would be left to be loaned year in, year out aain.

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/features/2020/10/14/21515543/re-imagining-frank-lampards-chelsea-a-positional-play-game-model

No Avram says Matt

5 hours ago, JM7 said:

I’m not convinced the back ups are much better. I like Tuchel as a character but not sure if he’s what we need. I think given the job Frank has done last season, he deserves time to finish it. The club have put a lot of work in putting the right structure in place so we should back it. 

Rodgers and Hasenhuttl are for me, both are top on the list for me. But im still behind Lampard 100%.

Edited January 13, 20215 yr by jack_super_class

5 hours ago, Sindre said:

I very much agree.

What i quite strongly believe though is that Top 4 is the very minimum Lampard needs to achieve this season. Without it I think he's history unfortunately. It's been the standard at the club for the last 10 years or so, before that it was a title-challenge or sack.

So Lampard's got a hell of a job on his hands. First and foremost we need to start winning again and if we do anything can happen.
But if he can't arrest the downward spiral and results continue to be bad and it becomes obvious that we will not be Top 4 at the end of the season I would be very surprised if he keeps his job unfortunately.

If, and I don't really believe it is, but if the Avram Grant story is true that is a terrible sign though.

The issue is, can we afford to wait? Our next fixtures are Fulham away, Leicester away, Wolves home, Burnley home and Spurs away. Hard enough run of games at the best of times but unless performances improve we'll maybe win one of them which will not only cut us well adrift of top four but firmly plant us in the bottom half.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

The issue is, can we afford to wait? Our next fixtures are Fulham away, Leicester away, Wolves home, Burnley home and Spurs away. Hard enough run of games at the best of times but unless performances improve we'll maybe win one of them which will not only cut us well adrift of top four but firmly plant us in the bottom half.

I think it would've been harsh to sack Lampard after the recent run of games during which we had a game every 3 days and he hardly had any time on the training pitch with the players to turn things around.

Lampard needs to be afforded time to implement his ideas on the training ground and see if they help in turning things around, I am hoping this 2 week period will help galvanize the players and the coaching staff. 

3 hours ago, evissy said:

No Avram says Matt

44 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I think it would've been harsh to sack Lampard after the recent run of games during which we had a game every 3 days and he hardly had any time on the training pitch with the players to turn things around.

Lampard needs to be afforded time to implement his ideas on the training ground and see if they help in turning things around, I am hoping this 2 week period will help galvanize the players and the coaching staff. 

But he's been here 18 months, the reality is we should be seeing his ideas, there's a fine line between showing deserved patience and lowering standards (look at Arsenal and the insane excuses their fans make for Arteta as a prime example, they're even talking themselves into thinking Rob Holding and Nketiah extending their contracts while two top talents in those positions leave is a good thing). Come win, draw or lose we should be seeing an identity on the pitch that makes us turn round and say "okay, frustrating results but we can see what he's building towards and the projected end product is good". Last season (and the year before) I defended almost every bad result because I liked the idea of where we were going, I saw a sustainable blueprint so I could easily ration most results as part of the process and move on. I was even pretty chill about the possibility of losing top four late on because the excitement of where I believed we were heading over-rid that fear. I strongly believed our problems were more down to players not good enough in too many crucial areas, we've upgraded on pretty much all of those deadwood players with top quality options and haven't improved as an overall team outside of set pieces (we were already good defensively in general play, our GA record was down to 1 every 2 shot on target trickling in, if we were genuinely poor defensively I dread to think how many goals we'd have conceded).

Yeah we maybe playing 2/3 times a week a fair bit but we had a heavy schedule last season aswell with not many free midweeks, I think Sarri had one free midweek all season from September onwards (for perspective, Lampard has had three in the last month including the last two weeks).

So to bring on that point further, now Lampard has had those two free midweeks in the training ground then surely we've now got to start seeing a tactical result on the pitch? Coordinated pressing, clever movement, good combinations and varied approach play, there's coaches in this league that are coaxing those things from sh*t players, we've got the third best squad in the league. If we go to Fulham and see those things then I'd be happy on Saturday night even if we drop more points, I just want to see some hope that Lampard will turn this round because in my lifetime (and this includes pre Roman times) I've only twice seen us underperform more than this when scaled for squad quality and that was Scolari's last couple of months (imagine if we kept him and not got Hiddink then Carlo) and ofcourse the Jose meltdown period (imagine if Roman decided to keep him based on what he done for us meaning we not only wouldn't have experienced that amazing season under Conte, United probably would have instead).

Edited January 13, 20215 yr by Argo

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

But he's been here 18 months, the reality is we should be seeing his ideas, there's a fine line between showing deserved patience and lowering standards (look at Arsenal and the insane excuses their fans make for Arteta as a prime example, they're even talking themselves into thinking Rob Holding extending his contract is a good thing). Come win, draw or lose we should be seeing an identity on the pitch that makes us turn round and say "okay, frustrating results but we can see what he's building towards and the projected end product is good". Last season (and the year before) I defended almost every bad result because I liked the idea of where we were going, I saw a sustainable blueprint so I could easily ration most results as part of the process and move on. I was even pretty chill about the possibility of losing top four late on because the excitement of where I believed we were heading over-rid that fear. I strongly believed our problems were more down to players not good enough in too many crucial areas, we've upgraded on pretty much all of those deadwood players with top quality options and haven't improved as an overall team outside of set pieces (we were already good defensively in general play, our GA record was down to 1 every 2 shot on target trickling in, if we were genuinely poor defensively I dread to think how many goals we'd have conceded).

Yeah we maybe playing 2/3 times a week a fair bit but we had a heavy schedule last season aswell with not many free midweeks, I think Sarri had one free midweek all season from September onwards (for perspective, Lampard has had three in the last month including the last two weeks).

So to bring on that point further, now Lampard has had those two free midweeks in the training ground then surely we've now got to start seeing a tactical result on the pitch? Coordinated pressing, clever movement, good combinations and varied approach play, there's coaches in this league that are coaxing those things from sh*t players, we've got the third best squad in the league. If we go to Fulham and see those things then I'd be happy on Saturday night even if we drop more points, I just want to see some hope that Lampard will turn this round because in my lifetime (and this includes pre Roman times) I've only twice seen us underperform so badly scaled for squad quality and that was Scolari's last couple of months (imagine if we kept him and not got Hiddink then Carlo) and ofcourse the Jose meltdown period (imagine if Roman decided to keep him based on what he done for us meaning we not only wouldn't have experienced that amazing season under Conte, United probably would have instead).

Excellent post and read, sensible with some great and very salient points.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

The issue is, can we afford to wait? Our next fixtures are Fulham away, Leicester away, Wolves home, Burnley home and Spurs away. Hard enough run of games at the best of times but unless performances improve we'll maybe win one of them which will not only cut us well adrift of top four but firmly plant us in the bottom half.

It really looks like it will be the key point of the season.

If we lose against Leicester, Wolves and Spurs I think that it's very likely that Lampard won't be our manager next season regardless of how the season ends after this set of games.

I would be happy with Lampard if we win the FA Cup this year and finish top 5-6. But the board probably won't be. 

Just now, Gol15 said:

It really looks like it will be the key point of the season.

If we lose against Leicester, Wolves and Spurs I think that it's very likely that Lampard won't be our manager next season regardless of how the season ends after this set of games.

I would be happy with Lampard if we win the FA Cup this year and finish top 5-6. But the board probably won't be. 

If we lose those three he won't be here this time next month (unless performances are showing significant signs of improving despite the bad results).

Also our season shouldn't depend on the FA Cup. Conte won it while he was half arsing the job, Redknapp, past it LVG and Arteta have all won it. The domestic cups are always nice to win in itself but can never be a true scale of a managers ability.

22 minutes ago, Argo said:

 

Yeah we maybe playing 2/3 times a week a fair bit but we had a heavy schedule last season aswell with not many free midweeks, I think Sarri had one free midweek all season from September onwards (for perspective, Lampard has had three in the last month including the last two weeks).

So to bring on that point further, now Lampard has had those two free midweeks in the training ground then surely we've now got to start seeing a tactical result on the pitch? Coordinated pressing, clever movement, good combinations and varied approach play, there's coaches in this league that are coaxing those things from sh*t players, we've got the third best squad in the league. If we go to Fulham and see those things then I'd be happy on Saturday night even if we drop more points, I just want to see some hope that Lampard will turn this round because in my lifetime (and this includes pre Roman times) I've only twice seen us underperform more than this when scaled for squad quality and that was Scolari's last couple of months (imagine if we kept him and not got Hiddink then Carlo) and ofcourse the Jose meltdown period (imagine if Roman decided to keep him based on what he done for us meaning we not only wouldn't have experienced that amazing season under Conte, United probably would have instead).

That is exactly my point that now he needs the team to lift there performances, he has had time to prepare for the next couple of games and with a reasonably fit squad he needs the results alongside the performances. If he was sacked after the City game it would've been incredibly harsh on him because in my view he wouldn't have had the time to work on the issues he has been experiencing every game since the Leeds match. 

If we don't see a turnaround in the next 3 games then I would not blame the board if they were to consider alternative options however my opinion is to give Lampard until the end of the season and review the season as a whole and give the new Manager a pre-season and a transfer window to work with.

I don't know about you but there is something comical about Avram. It is like he is some sort of cartoon character that Roman sometimes produces. 😂

When the time comes that Frank leaves, hopefully after a long period of success, I would like his successor to be the current Saints manager.

14 minutes ago, evissy said:

I don't know about you but there is something comical about Avram. It is like he is some sort of cartoon character that Roman sometimes produces. 😂

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

If we lose those three he won't be here this time next month (unless performances are showing significant signs of improving despite the bad results).

Also our season shouldn't depend on the FA Cup. Conte won it while he was half arsing the job, Redknapp, past it LVG and Arteta have all won it. The domestic cups are always nice to win in itself but can never be a true scale of a managers ability.

If he gets sacked before the season ends it will only show that the board got a bit too desperate and that in turn Lampard managed to bottle the job with an even better squad than the one he had last season.

The question would then be if the best possible manager out there e.g. Allegri can get many wins in the remaining games, which would be a pretty hard task. Sure his first game in charge would be an easy one against Sheffield but pretty soon after that we will be playing Southampton, Atletico Madrid, Man United, Everton and Liverpool which all come almost one after another with maybe some lower team like Leeds in the middle that can surprise anyone.

Our squad might not even have the capacity to adapt to another manager so fast, to play against these top teams and in the CL like that could be a massive disadvantage for us, a part of me would prefer to stick with Lampard as he has been working with our younger players for some time now.

Imagine if signing a huge contract with Allegri still doesn't get us back in the top 4 this season and then he loses his cool as soon as T.Silva leaves and demands a few huge signings but the board reminds him that he needs to focus on the youth, he might just prefer to get sacked like Conte so that he gets a nice funding for his pension. 

 

I have been one of the most critical of Lampard but whatever happens in the next few games pointless sacking him now if we miss CL so be it nothing wrong with Thursday nights mean we play Sunday.