Super Frank Lampard

[dansubrosa]

What really sticks out for me is that we don’t have that player like Hazard who can make the difference on a bad day. I hoped Willian would keep up the sensational form from Spurs game, unfortunately it didn’t happen.

I have to ask though, starting with 5 at the back plus Kante, against Southampton at home come on Frank. The first 5 minutes have set the tempo for rest of the game imo, had we started like we did a few months ago, Southampton wouldn’t have the confidence to play like they did towards the end, passing the ball around us ffs.

Personally i can’t see how Lampard is going to solve the problem against park the bus teams but then I’m not the manager. How can he fix it?

[Davey Baby]

1 hour ago, Brutos said:

I praised him after spurs and now I will give thim constructive criticism/feedback.

Lampard appears to be for all the praise he gets tactically naive and shows his lack of managerial experience(which is expected)when he has to think his way out of a problem during a match.

We have seen this numerous times already and we will continue to see it until he learns how to overcome low block teams and learns how to think his way out of problems. He appears to get a mental block and looks confused and puzzled at what is happening whenever we comes up against teams like Southampton you can see his expression on the touchline trying to conjure up a solution throwing darts at a darts board hoping one will stick.

I would be fascinated in understanding what analysis happens after those defeats, what does his and his team look at, what worked, what didn't and what do they take from post match analysis to go into the next match with a low block team because it appears nothing has been learnt or taken from those matches to because the same scenario keeps repeating over and over.

I believe he will crack it we just don't know how long it will take I just want to see signs of progress against low block, signs we are working on figuring out how to overcome these teams.

Matches like today reminds me or when we had Costa, I remember vividly a match against West Brom when they had deep low block Pulis special and Costa won is that match by chasing down a lost cause and rifling a shot in the top of the net.

We missied that and hopefully in the next few years our youngsters will be able to reach that level.

 

Good post, and I agree. 6 defeats at home so far is appalling and Frank unfortunately has made some very poor comments after the game in my view. He needs to shoulder responsibility. Instead, he's implying he's going to buy, because he's finding out about his players and they're coming up short, or some of them are. Fact is, we have enough on the park and in our squad to be turning these teams over, and if they're turning us over, that points to the manager, not the players. How many West Ham, Bournemouth, Southampton players are getting into our side? Not many, but they've worked us out, and as you say, Frank needs to come up with the answers instead of sitting in the dug-out sulking. Buying is easy but it won't solve our problems if he can't come up with answers.

 

Earlier in the season everyone was performing, better than we expected, better than they were last season. Frank took the credit. Now they're under-performing. He has to accept responsibility, not start pointing the finger. We can't f**king defend. He needs to sort that out. His Derby team couldn't defend. He needs to sort it out. Whenever he rotates it seems to go wrong. That's nobody's fault but his own. You need to know how to make changes without it impacting on results. This is the big league. You will get found out if you're not good enough. We have no idea if Frank will be good enough. We all hope he will be. We all hope he will be given time, but right now, our home form is giving him a credibility problem. The Chelsea job is a big job. You can't avoid scrutiny. Yes, youngsters will always be inconsistent, but we've got enough to beat these teams, easily, and we're now making a habit of losing to them, and we're not even making it difficult for them, which is the real worry.

 

Frank is a youngster of course in management terms so we'll all cut him a lot of slack, but if questions can be asked of some of our young players, as they are regularly on these boards, then questions can be asked of Frank, even if we're all delighted he's here. I don't expect top four, I never did, I'm just happy with what's going on, but right now he needs to think his way out of a problem, as you've said, and pointing the finger at his players and getting the chequebook out doesn't suggest to me he's really grasped what the problem is, and that to me is hugely concerning.

 

Last thing, at Derby, when they beat Leeds in the Play-off SF, there were jubilant scenes at the end, in front of the away supporters. There was a lot of bad blood between the sides and Frank was happy, to say the least. It was a great performance, they won against the odds, and they celebrated long and hard, celebrated as if they'd won promotion. A few days later, at Wembley, they never turned up. I watched the scenes at WHL on Sunday and it reminded me of that Play-off SF. It was a big win but it was only 3 points midway through the season in our quest for top four. We celebrated like we'd won the FA Cup. There were players dancing with each other. Frank was leading the chorus. It seems he hadn't learned his lesson. Celebrate by all means and enjoy the moment but when you celebrate too hard sometimes it feels like your work is done, and it's very hard to regain focus and get yourself up for the next game, especially if the next game's just around the corner. Those 3 points mean nothing if you can't win your bread and butter games and Frank can't let himself or his players get carried away with the odd good victory and he needs to learn that fast.

 

He has to remember that he's not the only one finding out about people. Yes a game like today's teaches him a lot about his players, as he's said, but it also teaches his players about him. Sometimes you have to be very careful what you say as a manager. His players have it all to prove but they'll know as well as anyone that their manager has it all to prove too.

[axman2526]

34 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Good post, and I agree. 6 defeats at home so far is appalling and Frank unfortunately has made some very poor comments after the game in my view. He needs to shoulder responsibility. Instead, he's implying he's going to buy, because he's finding out about his players and they're coming up short, or some of them are. Fact is, we have enough on the park and in our squad to be turning these teams over, and if they're turning us over, that points to the manager, not the players. How many West Ham, Bournemouth, Southampton players are getting into our side? Not many, but they've worked us out, and as you say, Frank needs to come up with the answers instead of sitting in the dug-out sulking. Buying is easy but it won't solve our problems if he can't come up with answers.

 

Earlier in the season everyone was performing, better than we expected, better than they were last season. Frank took the credit. Now they're under-performing. He has to accept responsibility, not start pointing the finger. We can't f**king defend. He needs to sort that out. His Derby team couldn't defend. He needs to sort it out. Whenever he rotates it seems to go wrong. That's nobody's fault but his own. You need to know how to make changes without it impacting on results. This is the big league. You will get found out if you're not good enough. We have no idea if Frank will be good enough. We all hope he will be. We all hope he will be given time, but right now, our home form is giving him a credibility problem. The Chelsea job is a big job. You can't avoid scrutiny. Yes, youngsters will always be inconsistent, but we've got enough to beat these teams, easily, and we're now making a habit of losing to them, and we're not even making it difficult for them, which is the real worry.

 

Frank is a youngster of course in management terms so we'll all cut him a lot of slack, but if questions can be asked of some of our young players, as they are regularly on these boards, then questions can be asked of Frank, even if we're all delighted he's here. I don't expect top four, I never did, I'm just happy with what's going on, but right now he needs to think his way out of a problem, as you've said, and pointing the finger at his players and getting the chequebook out doesn't suggest to me he's really grasped what the problem is, and that to me is hugely concerning.

 

Last thing, at Derby, when they beat Leeds in the Play-off SF, there were jubilant scenes at the end, in front of the away supporters. There was a lot of bad blood between the sides and Frank was happy, to say the least. It was a great performance, they won against the odds, and they celebrated long and hard, celebrated as if they'd won promotion. A few days later, at Wembley, they never turned up. I watched the scenes at WHL on Sunday and it reminded me of that Play-off SF. It was a big win but it was only 3 points midway through the season in our quest for top four. We celebrated like we'd won the FA Cup. There were players dancing with each other. Frank was leading the chorus. It seems he hadn't learned his lesson. Celebrate by all means and enjoy the moment but when you celebrate too hard sometimes it feels like your work is done, and it's very hard to regain focus and get yourself up for the next game, especially if the next game's just around the corner. Those 3 points mean nothing if you can't win your bread and butter games and Frank can't let himself or his players get carried away with the odd good victory and he needs to learn that fast.

 

He has to remember that he's not the only one finding out about people. Yes a game like today's teaches him a lot about his players, as he's said, but it also teaches his players about him. Sometimes you have to be very careful what you say as a manager. His players have it all to prove but they'll know as well as anyone that their manager has it all to prove too.

Great post.

Re the celebrations against Spurs. We were/are only a DVD away from being exactly like the team we have mocked for decades about being bottlers.

[abramovich]

6 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Good post, and I agree. 6 defeats at home so far is appalling and Frank unfortunately has made some very poor comments after the game in my view. He needs to shoulder responsibility. Instead, he's implying he's going to buy, because he's finding out about his players and they're coming up short, or some of them are. Fact is, we have enough on the park and in our squad to be turning these teams over, and if they're turning us over, that points to the manager, not the players. How many West Ham, Bournemouth, Southampton players are getting into our side? Not many, but they've worked us out, and as you say, Frank needs to come up with the answers instead of sitting in the dug-out sulking. Buying is easy but it won't solve our problems if he can't come up with answers.

 

Earlier in the season everyone was performing, better than we expected, better than they were last season. Frank took the credit. Now they're under-performing. He has to accept responsibility, not start pointing the finger. We can't f**king defend. He needs to sort that out. His Derby team couldn't defend. He needs to sort it out. Whenever he rotates it seems to go wrong. That's nobody's fault but his own. You need to know how to make changes without it impacting on results. This is the big league. You will get found out if you're not good enough. We have no idea if Frank will be good enough. We all hope he will be. We all hope he will be given time, but right now, our home form is giving him a credibility problem. The Chelsea job is a big job. You can't avoid scrutiny. Yes, youngsters will always be inconsistent, but we've got enough to beat these teams, easily, and we're now making a habit of losing to them, and we're not even making it difficult for them, which is the real worry.

 

Frank is a youngster of course in management terms so we'll all cut him a lot of slack, but if questions can be asked of some of our young players, as they are regularly on these boards, then questions can be asked of Frank, even if we're all delighted he's here. I don't expect top four, I never did, I'm just happy with what's going on, but right now he needs to think his way out of a problem, as you've said, and pointing the finger at his players and getting the chequebook out doesn't suggest to me he's really grasped what the problem is, and that to me is hugely concerning.

 

Last thing, at Derby, when they beat Leeds in the Play-off SF, there were jubilant scenes at the end, in front of the away supporters. There was a lot of bad blood between the sides and Frank was happy, to say the least. It was a great performance, they won against the odds, and they celebrated long and hard, celebrated as if they'd won promotion. A few days later, at Wembley, they never turned up. I watched the scenes at WHL on Sunday and it reminded me of that Play-off SF. It was a big win but it was only 3 points midway through the season in our quest for top four. We celebrated like we'd won the FA Cup. There were players dancing with each other. Frank was leading the chorus. It seems he hadn't learned his lesson. Celebrate by all means and enjoy the moment but when you celebrate too hard sometimes it feels like your work is done, and it's very hard to regain focus and get yourself up for the next game, especially if the next game's just around the corner. Those 3 points mean nothing if you can't win your bread and butter games and Frank can't let himself or his players get carried away with the odd good victory and he needs to learn that fast.

 

He has to remember that he's not the only one finding out about people. Yes a game like today's teaches him a lot about his players, as he's said, but it also teaches his players about him. Sometimes you have to be very careful what you say as a manager. His players have it all to prove but they'll know as well as anyone that their manager has it all to prove too.

Great post as usual, Davey.

I'd just like to add a couple of points. Not only his players learn things about him, some of those players have been there and won things. He was a success as a player, but as a manager, he's got nothing to show yet, and they know it, too.

Also, I wonder if having more experienced assistants could have helped Frank. Morris and Edwards know the club well and are probably good at nurturing our young talent but in terms of managing they're just as green as Frank. What advice could they possibly give him when the team is struggling if they've never been in those situations before, just like him? Someone like Steve Clarke would probably have been a good option.

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by abramovich

[Ernie_blue]

You can't be starting with 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders at home. We was never going to be creating much, quite a simple error IMO.

[evissy]

Trying 3 at back home against a bus was a try as any try. Maybe he thought the players have more confidence playing that formation and that would help us cross the line.

Celebrating at Tottenham Frank was happy and I think it also showed how tough week he had trying to outplay Jose. A bit naive and a page from of José's book. I think Frank didn't hold back because he felt the team needs a positive spin instead of thinking about the Prem table. It feels he is trying things as as we go on.

Breaking a bus is always tough and teams are playing that at Bridge as they should we just need to break that. It is not that complicated but definetly not easy.

Be more clever with setplays, make sure opponent can't hit you on the break.

[chi blue]

11 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Slightly bizarre performance against a team battling for points, on the back of that supreme Spuds performance, Mount should of started, he brings a contagious energy to the team, he could be like JT, a real young Captain...

Mount must start, he sets tempo of whole team, play the lesser teams and some of our players go through the motions thinking their class will show through, unfortunately some of our players at present will be waiting a long time before any class comes through to win a game, Hazard is long gone to save us.

[Gentian]

31 minutes ago, chi blue said:

Mount must start, he sets tempo of whole team, play the lesser teams and some of our players go through the motions thinking their class will show through, unfortunately some of our players at present will be waiting a long time before any class comes through to win a game, Hazard is long gone to save us.

Absolutely, many times odoi was watching the ball rather than attacking it and tackling like Mount does in those attacking areas. 

[Zola]

Very disappointing result. These games should be our bread and butter. 

At least this kind of result shines a light on certain positions of weakness and should reinforce the case for squad additions as soon as possible. 

 

[Kev56]

3 hours ago, Zola said:

Very disappointing result. These games should be our bread and butter. 

At least this kind of result shines a light on certain positions of weakness and should reinforce the case for squad additions as soon as possible. 

 

From that performance it would appear we need to reinforce every position.

[strider6004]

46 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

From that performance it would appear we need to reinforce every position.

No, the manager needs to work on changing things mid-game when the tactics are not working.

He has not got this right yet.

[chi blue]

We are still in the champions League positions, but must reinforce in January to stay in race, no good saying you don't get value for money in January, wait till summer for better value transfers and we won't be able to attract quality as won't be in champs league, we got plenty of money with Hazard sale and look like we won't be improving ground In coming years, so that won't take up money, we just three real quality players

[enigma]

15 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

What really sticks out for me is that we don’t have that player like Hazard who can make the difference on a bad day. I hoped Willian would keep up the sensational form from Spurs game, unfortunately it didn’t happen.

I have to ask though, starting with 5 at the back plus Kante, against Southampton at home come on Frank. The first 5 minutes have set the tempo for rest of the game imo, had we started like we did a few months ago, Southampton wouldn’t have the confidence to play like they did towards the end, passing the ball around us ffs.

Personally i can’t see how Lampard is going to solve the problem against park the bus teams but then I’m not the manager. How can he fix it?

Honestly, I think Zaha may have been very useful in a game like those Vs WH, Bournemouth, Southampton. Dare I say he would have been the best attacking player in our team, barring Abraham. I am starting to change my mind on throwing money at Zaha in January. Sancho we would not get in January, I doubt. 

[Bluesince66]

5 minutes ago, enigma said:

Honestly, I think Zaha may have been very useful in a game like those Vs WH, Bournemouth, Southampton. Dare I say he would have been the best attacking player in our team, barring Abraham. I am starting to change my mind on throwing money at Zaha in January. Sancho we would not get in January, I doubt. 

I wanted pulisic on from start instead of callum,I feel we might have had a bit of success. 

[Argo]

On 26/12/2019 at 16:51, cuppaT said:

We weren’t, we were getting lucky. 

What complete and utter bollax, even by your standards.

[Gol15]

Sarri last season had at this point after 19 games 8 points more than Frankie has now. Given the transfer ban and our CL run so far, this season is already a decent one.

[bisright1]

40 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Sarri last season had at this point after 19 games 8 points more than Frankie has now. Given the transfer ban and our CL run so far, this season is already a decent one.

My fear is that Sarri, for all his problems people have with him, built a team that could dominate and beat teams. I continue to believe that Sarri this season would have had our team playing exciting football and we'd be in a better position. It wasn't to be.

We've started to go backwards in this crucial part of management and I wonder whether lampard has the ability to build this into our team. 

Ole at united is similar, can motivate the players for the big occasions, keep them happy, but can he or lampard tactically beat the teams in the lower half. 

I don't buy the transfer ban. We signed Pulisic and found a top level striker in Tammy and midfielder in Mount. Maybe Sarri wouldn't have done that, but I can't believe he definitely wouldn't have. 

Hopefully I'm wrong. I'd like to see Frank given a lot of time to show he can build the ability in our team to break teams down. I think the first thing that needs to happen is we cash in on Kante and sign a better midfielder who can create as well as boss the midfield. Second is sign Sancho. Third is sign a left back. 

As things stand, we will finish the season 5th or 6th. Which i would have taken. But next season we need to be a top 3 side again. 

[Gol15]

21 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

My fear is that Sarri, for all his problems people have with him, built a team that could dominate and beat teams. I continue to believe that Sarri this season would have had our team playing exciting football and we'd be in a better position. It wasn't to be.

We've started to go backwards in this crucial part of management and I wonder whether lampard has the ability to build this into our team. 

Ole at united is similar, can motivate the players for the big occasions, keep them happy, but can he or lampard tactically beat the teams in the lower half. 

I don't buy the transfer ban. We signed Pulisic and found a top level striker in Tammy and midfielder in Mount. Maybe Sarri wouldn't have done that, but I can't believe he definitely wouldn't have. 

Hopefully I'm wrong. I'd like to see Frank given a lot of time to show he can build the ability in our team to break teams down. I think the first thing that needs to happen is we cash in on Kante and sign a better midfielder who can create as well as boss the midfield. Second is sign Sancho. Third is sign a left back. 

As things stand, we will finish the season 5th or 6th. Which i would have taken. But next season we need to be a top 3 side again. 

I must say that part from some games that we totally got dominated (Bournemouth 4:0, City 6:0) Sarri proved in the end that his system works, Jorginho in his first PL season was the top passer in the league and we even won Europa league again. Basically if he didn't go to Juve he would have stayed, he did everything right to keep his job even if people disliked his view of the game.
I also thought about your argument before, sure we had a transfer ban but we got Tammy that scored loads in the Championship and Pulisic that is a top talent, though we did lose Hazard.

Though I still don't understand why is it a thing to consider if we should sell Kante. He is our only top player, among the 20 best players in the world more or less. I agree that we should get Sancho and a left back, I even think that we need a centre-back and a striker. But then again, every other manager that spoke about our squad (Pep,Klopp,Jose) has said that our squad is strong and that it's hard to find players that would be better than the ones we already have.

All things considered, we can still finish in the top 4 because even after so many points dropped against lesser teams, our competition for the 4th spot isn't that amazing. Wolves won't be this good for much longer I think, Spurs are a sinking ship in my eyes only if Jose brings in someone like Bale or who knows what are the rumors, then they will fight for that spot, Sheffield has a tricky tactic but I don't see them having the depth to keep going...The team that is similar to us is somewhat Man United, they show up in big games but are inconsistent.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Gol15

[strider6004]

I find myself questioning Franks subs when we are losing but dominating.

Why bring on Bats for Tammy, surely both need to stay on to increase our chances of scoring and we lose a defender instead.

I just think in-play Frank loses his cool headedness to see what needs to be done, can't see the wood for the trees, so to speak.

[haviet1]

55 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

......every other manager that spoke about our squad (Pep,Klopp,Jose) has said that our squad is strong and that it's hard to find players that would be better than the ones we already have......

 

This is very true. How many players from Leicester, Wolves, or Sheffield would walk straight into the Chelsea starting 11? Very very few.

I have to agree that the coaching staff hasn't been doing a very good job with the talents they have available to them. Lamp's frequent roster changes, formations, subs,  and in game tactical awareness had been questionable on more than a few occasions. I hope he learn very quickly on the job, and get this team to play to their full potentials.

 

[Dean]

Some really good posts, Davey, Brutos and others. SFL has been a bit of a sacred cow and has had it very easy from the fans, until Southampton. there’s just no scope for that in the big league and SFL has to prove himself just like any other manager. We take so much for granted as fans and have no idea how difficult it is to succeed as a football manager (one reason why I never had time for the Sarri hate on here). We should be under no illusions that the odds are objectively not in SFL’s favour. what’s the conversion ratio of influential footballers into successful managers? It must be really low. This is a leap of faith, people. Don’t get me wrong - it’s one I’m still prepared to take, but we should recognise it for what it is.   Come on SFL, shut us all the fxxk up!

[Dean]

On 27/12/2019 at 13:49, Strider6003 said:

No, the manager needs to work on changing things mid-game when the tactics are not working.

He has not got this right yet.

Yeah I’m very much in the camp that we can’t be relying on the transfer market. Apart from it not being a great look (calling to throw money at the problem like so many spoilt children), we have the players now to be beating Southampton, West Ham et al at home FFS

[bisright1]

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Though I still don't understand why is it a thing to consider if we should sell Kante. He is our only top player, among the 20 best players in the world more or less.  

Kante is a world class player in a certain circumstances. When we are playing a top team. 

However we have to play 28 games in a league season against teams that aren't top top class. He's ineffective in those games. Breaking up the play in those games is less important than winning the defensive set pieces and in attack he offers nothing. 

If we were playing the old counter attacking football (which I think doesn't win titles anymore) hes great. In addition he's 27, at peak value and we can get a lot of money for him. 

It's a bold move. But it's one that top managers of the past would make.

[I Am Gay 4 Diegod]

I’m not being funny but the fickleness of fans on here is embarrassing. How many posts have I read on here now saying “ it’s no good only being good against the good teams “ because of the spurs win, that was our first win against a big team bar ajax. We lost all the other games. When it was going well posters on here was moaning we have enough to out score the weak but couldn’t pull it off tactically against a top team. So we beat spurs and now can only get up for big games.
 

I went on spurs forum after we beat them and they was having similar melt downs one even said it was abundantly clear that Kane after his injuries is not a patch on what Abraham is and they need to be replacing Kane with a striker like Abraham. Which I’m sure we all know as good as Tammy is that’s a hugely ridiculous post for a spurs fan. The Week before they beat Burnley 5-0 and they was saying Kane’s the best all round 9 in the world and under mourinho is in the form of his life. Point being it was over the top pathetic irrationalism both ways and it’s what people on here are doing because of a couple of hiccups when we all pretended at the start of the season we knew this was coming and was cool with it. 
 

Saying Lampard is tactically out of his depth or not up to it is so dumb, because he brought on batshuayi or started without mount or whatever trivial detail people want to blame,  whilst you pretend the answer was all along not starting Kante at home to a lesser team or Alonso instead of Emerson. No it’s like he says our players not being brave not having final ball quality and not being clinical. He’s backed and praised the team all season from tomori to Willian to James to Kovacic and more. Now he says it how it is and because we don’t like losing we say oooo he can’t blame the players there winners and he’s won nothing as a manager. Are you kidding me is this how much patience we have with our greatest ever player ? Do you watch his interviews with  Cundy and the other fella  after the games ? He comes across so intelligent and just honest. He’s passionate and he’s honest. 
 

honestly we are a really good attacking couple of fullbacks and maybe a wonder away from being far away the third best team in the league. Add a cb if we want to reach Liverpool. You can’t all start losing your heads over a couple of bad games over xmas. We will sign a player in January and we will approach home games different and all will be good but for Christ sake stop the over reaction and blame pointing. What players attacking wise in them lineups against West Ham Bournemouth and Southampton was really good? CHO? Pulisic? Mount ? Willian? Emerson? Azpilicueta? It all them individually had sh*te games against lesser teams and which they have always have tendencies to do how do you not blame the players ? That’s our squad you can only work with what you have.

[coco]

52 minutes ago, Dean said:

what’s the conversion ratio of influential footballers into successful managers?

Let me blow your myth out of the water. Most successful managers have played football professionally.