Didn't'' think that 4-0 Utd win reflected the actual game. However, I'd have certainly taken it had it been us with say 4 shots on target  resulting in 4 goals yesterday.

We were a bit unfortunate to hit the woodwork twice and no goals resulting from either or both. Some of our link up play seemed good.

We made mistakes at the back and were punished for them.

A long way to go and it is very much 'a work in progress' for Frank Lampard and his coaching staff.

However, losing 4-0 to Utd is always a tough one to take .

52 minutes ago, Dean said:

I’m surprised at and also somewhat disconcerted by the levels of optimism on here. This is admirable and I honestly hope you guys are right and I’m wrong. I just can’t see the positives. This match reminds me of the FA cup final vs United (94?) when we looked good for a while  but lost 4-0. I fear that on a relative basis Chelsea may be back to where it was around about then. I get that we have injuries, and this wasn’t a full strength team. But I fear the reinforcements aren’t going to move the needle anywhere near enough. This is a seriously weak squad, people.  The biggest problem / question I have is: where are our goals going to come from? How would you rank our front line vs rest of premier league? I honestly  think our front line is kind of mid-table at best (possibly even relegation zone). Still, it’s very early in the season and once again - am dying to be proven wrong ... 

You don't think bringing in rudiger, RLC, Kante and CHO into that team we ould have raised the quality? Our best midfielder, our best defender, an attacking midfielder who was playing really well pre injury and a very good prospect? Really?

48 minutes ago, Dean said:

This match reminds me of the FA cup final vs United (94?) when we looked good for a while  but lost 4-0. 

Oh the memories, great days but no similarity at all, except it was 4-0 Utd and we were the better team in the first half and hit the woodwork. And Utds first was a penalty. And we had a calamity in defence. And the ref was sh1t, we were managed by an ex player and our midfield weren't very tall. And Utd fans had a short walk home...but other than that.

1 hour ago, Dean said:

I’m surprised at and also somewhat disconcerted by the levels of optimism on here. This is admirable and I honestly hope you guys are right and I’m wrong. I just can’t see the positives. This match reminds me of the FA cup final vs United (94?) when we looked good for a while  but lost 4-0. I fear that on a relative basis Chelsea may be back to where it was around about then. I get that we have injuries, and this wasn’t a full strength team. But I fear the reinforcements aren’t going to move the needle anywhere near enough. This is a seriously weak squad, people.  The biggest problem / question I have is: where are our goals going to come from? How would you rank our front line vs rest of premier league? I honestly  think our front line is kind of mid-table at best (possibly even relegation zone). Still, it’s very early in the season and once again - am dying to be proven wrong ... 

You are Private Fraser and I claim my £5.

Yesterday we faced a back four who cost around £190 million. Ok we didn’t score but Tammy and Emerson  were incredibly unlucky not to score. It was Tammy's first ever game against that type of defence and I didn’t think he did that badly.

Yesterdays game was nothing like that Cup Final that day we created little yesterday there were far more positive signs.We had greater possession, we had more shots than them and more on target .

Lets see how things go over the next few games before we write off the squad.

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by terraloon

19 minutes ago, dkw said:

You don't think bringing in rudiger, RLC, Kante and CHO into that team we ould have raised the quality? Our best midfielder, our best defender, an attacking midfielder who was playing really well pre injury and a very good prospect? Really?

I do think it will make a difference. Just not enough of one to be challenging for top four. Rudiger for Zouma is crucial I think. But this still leaves unanswered the problem of our attack.  

11 minutes ago, terraloon said:

You are Private Fraser and I claim my £5.

Yesterday we faced a back four who cost around £190 million. Ok we didn’t score but Tammy and Emerson  were incredibly unlucky not to score. It was Tammy's first ever game against that type of defence and I didn’t think he did that badly.

Yesterdays game was nothing like that Cup Final that day we created little yesterday there were far more positive signs.We had greater possession, we had more shots than them and more on target .

Lets see how things go over the next few games before we write off the squad.

I hope you’re right. I haven’t written off the squad yet, am just kind of thinking aloud. Wasn’t going to post at all, and probably shouldn’t have. The only quibble I have about your reply is your comment about Man U’s back 4  costing £190mn. This would imply you agree with me on a key concern ,which is the quality/calibre of our squad not measuring up to our competition and that the transfer ban in this respect is a major handicap?  

Think we need a little perspective. First game of the season against Utd is tough fixture especially since they have a lot to prove this season. We were never going to come out flying, this team needs a few months to find it's rhythm and build confidence. Though I did think the initial line up was a little odd,  Pulisic should of started as he's one of the fittest out there in terms of match fitness and a pivot of Jorginho and Kovavic against that team was suicide. Kante surely could of had 60 minutes in him. We needed that bit of strength and security in the middle of the park.

It will be interesting to see how Frank sets up against Liverpool and how he changes his approach. I fear for us if we don't learn from our mistakes. Leicester won't be a walk in the park either.

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by Sheva

47 minutes ago, DP2 said:

Oh the memories, great days but no similarity at all, except it was 4-0 Utd and we were the better team in the first half and hit the woodwork. And Utds first was a penalty. And we had a calamity in defence. And the ref was sh1t, we were managed by an ex player and our midfield weren't very tall. And Utd fans had a short walk home...but other than that.

Ironically I had said yesterday that Zouma was like watching Frank Sinclair, and then he did exactly the same thing.

Right, here goes.

First and foremost I must admit I am bitterly disappointed with the result.

I was nervous before the game, seeing us like up with the likes of Mount & Abraham for United away is unchartered territory. I was worried we would concede early and get wiped out in a men against boys sort of way.

I was pleasantly surprised though. We undoubtedly started the better team, and despite being guilty of creating our own problems with sloppy mistakes, we were playing the more fluid football, and edging every department. It was anything but men against boys.  Impressive at Old Trafford, however poor they may be, they have just spent circa £150 in the transfer window.

Then the penalty. Always been a fan of Zouma, but this was a disaster class performance.

We seemed a little rattled after the goal, but fight our way back into the game and by the start of the second half we were once again the team dominating possession & territory. Let’s not pretend we were hammering the door down, but once again we were edging it against United at Old Trafford. That’s where I can take positives.

Obviously the mistakes that gifted the United goals from this point are now well documented, and the naivety of how we played into their hands is something we have to work on fast. Kante and Ruidiger coming back into the side will make a lot of difference.

In the end we must concede we were well beaten, but the score line undoubtedly flatters United. They avoided conceding by the finest of margins, twice, and we gifted them the all important opening penalty. There is the question mark over the foul on Abraham for the second which changed the dynamic of the game, but to be honest it was just one of those days were everything seemed to go their way. It happens sometimes, I am just gutted it happened on Franks debut.

I think there are positives to take; Mount being one, but we need Kante, Ruidiger, Hudson-Odoi and James in the starting 11 as soon as possible.

This was always going to be a hard season, and it might well get worse before it gets better, but I am still fully on board and I can genuinely see what Frank is trying to do, and I like it.

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by mclovin83

29 minutes ago, Dean said:

I hope you’re right. I haven’t written off the squad yet, am just kind of thinking aloud. Wasn’t going to post at all, and probably shouldn’t have. The only quibble I have about your reply is your comment about Man U’s back 4  costing £190mn. This would imply you agree with me on a key concern ,which is the quality/calibre of our squad not measuring up to our competition and that the transfer ban in this respect is a major handicap?  

The point I was trying to make is that that is one hellava expensive back four and yet we created chances on anther day one or two probably would have gone in. If we weren’t chasing the game so hard then we wouldn’t have to  had push the midfield so  far up and probably goals two, three and four wouldn’t have come about. Man Utd are all about counter attacking and had we had a screen in front of our back four then it could and probably would have been a different game.

16 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Sounds stupid but i'm actually happy with how we played. Dominated the game from the off and should've been 2 up before Utd's penalty. IMO we win that game if Zouma doesn't play. 

Going forward James replaces Azpi, Rudi replaces Zouma, RLC replaces Barkley and CHO replaces Mount. Kante starts from the get go in place of Kovacic. That's half of our starting 11 improved without any changes. 

Patience.

Zouma hasn't been the same since the injury and his loan spells haven't convinced me either, he should've been offloaded. 

I know he's still young but for me he hasn't improved since we first signed him, he just appears to be an early bloomer of a defender that relies on his size and pace. 

Selling off Luiz was a massive mistake when we've got Rudiger out, we keep conceding a freaky amount of goals. 

9 minutes ago, terraloon said:

The point I was trying to make is that that is one hellava expensive back four and yet we created chances on anther day one or two probably would have gone in. If we weren’t chasing the game so hard then we wouldn’t have to  had push the midfield so  far up and probably goals two, three and four wouldn’t have come about. Man Utd are all about counter attacking and had we had a screen in front of our back four then it could and probably would have been a different game.

If evrybody knows the pace and counterattacking play of Utd, why did then Frank set us up tactically to fall into their game plan? I hope he learns from this, but if Derby is anything to go by, we are going to be very very open at the back and we'll get spanked by many teams, not necessarily Liverpool and City, but the likes of Wolves, Leicester or any one fancy again a trip to Bournemouth. Driving back yesterday after the second half performance I wonder whether it is worth driving 4 hours to watch a team with Zouma at the back.

Just now, mclovin83 said:

Right, here goes.

First and foremost I must admit I am bitterly disappointed with the result.

I was nervous before the game, seeing us like up with the likes of Mount & Abraham for United away is unchartered territory. I was worried we would concede early and get wiped out in a men against boys sort of way.

I was pleasantly surprised though. We undoubtedly started the better team, and despite being guilty of creating our own problems with sloppy mistakes, we were playing the more fluid football, and edging every department. It was anything but men against boys.  Impressive at Old Trafford, however poor they may be, they have just spent circa £150 in the transfer window.

Then the penalty. Always been a fan of Zouma, but this was a disaster class performance.

We seemed a little rattled after the goal, but fight our way back into the game and by the start of the second half we were once again the team dominating possession & territory. Let’s not pretend we were hammering the door down, but once again we were edging it against United at Old Trafford. That’s where I can take positives.

Obviously the mistakes that gifted the United goals from this point are now well documented, and the naivety of how we played into their hands is something we have to work on fast. Kante and Ruidiger coming back into the side will make a lot of difference.

In the end we must concede we were well beaten, but the score line undoubtedly flatters United. They avoided conceding by the finest of margins, twice, and we gifted them the all important opening penalty. There is the question mark over the foul on Abraham for the second which changed the dynamic of the game, but to be honest it was just one of those days were everything seemed to go their way. It happens sometimes, I am just gutted it happened on Franks debut.

I think there are positives to take; Mount being one, but we need Kante, Ruidiger, Hudson-Odoi and James in the starting 11 as soon as possible.

This was always going to be a hard season, and it might well get worse before it gets better, but I am still fully on board and I can genuinely see what Frank is trying to do, and I like it.

Firstly, I agree with almost everything here. Though, as I know some have mentioned, I genuinely believe that the scoreline was massively misleading. Therefore, yes. I'm dissapointed with the result. A lot even. But I don't think our performance was that bad. Sure - we need some kind of solution for the team to get re-positioned when our first-pressure fails. Which it did a lot yesterday - giving United plenty of spance in the center of the field to drive the ball forward. But hopefully that'll get sorted by SFL and the staff.

The penalty, as highlighted, was just bad on so many levels. First AC make some half-hearted tackle, making the ball bounce back to a United-attacker, who Zouma then decides to taking down with slower and more clumpsy movement than ever. This happens shortly after Zouma had given away a major chance to Martial, by passing the ball directly to in our penalty area. Bad, bad defending. 

Their second goal came after - in my opinion - a foul on Tammy. However, it probably was a fifty-fifty decision, which the ref choose to rule in favour of the defender. Sadly the counter ended up with a birlliant cross, hitting the man Azpi had to cover on his shin and going in. Tough luck - but that's part of the game i guess. 90 seconds later both Azpi and AC were sleeping massively, giving Rashford time and space to score on a simple though ball. Perhaps the only goal, that United should recieve credit for. Simple and effective. 

As the ref then decided not tostop the play after a potential head injury for Zouma, most of our players got caught off guard, given United an easy counter-possibility, where the shot (of course) got deflected and went in. Just our day. 

So yeah - well beaten, but also extremely unlucky. Both with some of the decisions that the referee made, and also with our finishing. That's us losing by margins - small margins even - which somehow ended up with a 4-0 loss. I've seen us drop easy games we shouldn't have done before - but not in a long time by these kinds of margins. Could have easily ended with a win for us, had things gone just slightly different. I have plenty of believe in the squad after last nights performance. I mean, well. We're not going to win a lot of titles this year, but I can live with that. As long as we get control of our pressure play across the field, as well as our defense.

And as you say - with more of our even better players coming back from injury, things could turn soon enough. 

I really don't think Utd won because of our mistakes. I think Utd won because whenever we lost the ball they were running straight at us. We had no protection. We were far too stretched. That's not mistakes, that's tactical. We will lose the ball every single game, every team does. It's about how you're set up. We were a little bit naive.

 

Frank spoke a lot about mistakes being the reason we lost but I hope he doesn't really mean that. Individual mistakes were not the reason in my book. We were vulnerable throughout the game, whenever they won the ball.

1 minute ago, Davey Baby said:

whenever we lost the ball they were running straight at us.

But good defenders are usually able to deal with that too. Azpilicueta for example was either outrun or outmuscled for all of Uniteds last three goals. A better performance from the rightback would have stopped those goals.
Same with the first goal really, Zouma's clumsiness is what caused it more than the tactical approach.
 

41 minutes ago, Sindre said:

But good defenders are usually able to deal with that too. Azpilicueta for example was either outrun or outmuscled for all of Uniteds last three goals. A better performance from the rightback would have stopped those goals.
Same with the first goal really, Zouma's clumsiness is what caused it more than the tactical approach.
 

 

Despite the performances of Dave and Kurt, which were poor, I still believe we were asking for trouble, the way they bypassed our midfield when we lost the ball.

 

Edit: In fact It's been a theme throughout pre-season, no matter who's in defence. It's not just about our defenders.

Edited August 12, 20196 yr by Davey Baby

I couldn't watch the match yesterday. From what I read, we were unlucky not to have scored 2-3 goals ourselves. Of course, who knows how the match plays out at that point. Well, we knew that the season wasn't going to be a bit of a roller coaster so, here we go!

Getting trounced every week due to poor shape & defending will not constitute as a ‘roller coaster’ season. We’ve been through that before. It’s not fun. It only works if the team defends properly, whilst also managing to win games here & there. 

23 hours ago, bluedave said:

Should have strengthened in the summer really.

It’s been a freak of a game, I think Utd have scored with every shot on goal. Good to hear the fans still singing Super Frank at the end.

Should of strengthened, how?

A lot of you make me chuckle ! the club's under a transfer ban, last years 'successful' manager quit meaning that its defo NOT business as usual this season as it has been for the 19 other competing teams in the league. However the business as usual critics are back in force- Zouma is no good , the midfield was bypassed, Dave is past it, Tammy is not experienced enough, Giroud slower than Higuain, should not have sold SSB, should of strengthened in the summer (LOL), Manager naive in his tactics, etc etc. I get this is a forum for debate. But we are stuck with the players we had from last season & we are lucky we have a manager most of us regard as a legend who has stepped up to take a job under very difficult & challenging circumstances. Its going to be a very long season for a few of us, cant see it getting fixed by Weds either. Yesterday's result on paper looks totally 2 bob, but this season I think we need to focus on the positives wherever they may be, as there will be too much of the opposite everywhere else.

1 hour ago, General said:

A lot of you make me chuckle ! the club's under a transfer ban, last years 'successful' manager quit meaning that its defo NOT business as usual this season as it has been for the 19 other competing teams in the league. However the business as usual critics are back in force- Zouma is no good , the midfield was bypassed, Dave is past it, Tammy is not experienced enough, Giroud slower than Higuain, should not have sold SSB, should of strengthened in the summer (LOL), Manager naive in his tactics, etc etc. I get this is a forum for debate. But we are stuck with the players we had from last season & we are lucky we have a manager most of us regard as a legend who has stepped up to take a job under very difficult & challenging circumstances. Its going to be a very long season for a few of us, cant see it getting fixed by Weds either. Yesterday's result on paper looks totally 2 bob, but this season I think we need to focus on the positives wherever they may be, as there will be too much of the opposite everywhere else.

Every fan base has doom and gloom fans. I'm pleasantly surprised to see how many of us are upbeat despite the result. There's a lot to be excited over this season even if we will not be strong contenders for titles and it looks like many of us see that. 

1 hour ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Should of strengthened, how?

Double sessions in the gym weight lifting, duh!

Still hurting from Yesterday's match, as im sure most of you are.

However on reflection, I thought at times we played some refreshing football, especially first 20 minutes when we bossed the game. we needed a goal that our dominance deserved but the luck was against us.

We need to remember that the last thing Frank needed on top of the transfer ban was a host of injuries to players that would probably start in his strongest team, Rudiger, RLC, Kante, Callum and possibly Willian, im not one for making excuses but when you consider this we were really up against it yesterday.

I remain very positive for the coming season despite the unfortunate start, and when players start to return and make the starting XI and the bench stronger, I have no doubts that the style of football that Lamps is trying to encourage will make us all proud.

6 hours ago, Dean said:

I do think it will make a difference. Just not enough of one to be challenging for top four. Rudiger for Zouma is crucial I think. But this still leaves unanswered the problem of our attack.  

What’s wrong with our attack we were all over then for most of the game and created far more chances, add in CHO, RLC even Willian who we skate but can still offer a lot in the transition, plus more game time for Tammy, I’m not worried about our attack. 

5 hours ago, RMH said:

If evrybody knows the pace and counterattacking play of Utd, why did then Frank set us up tactically to fall into their game plan? I hope he learns from this, but if Derby is anything to go by, we are going to be very very open at the back and we'll get spanked by many teams, not necessarily Liverpool and City, but the likes of Wolves, Leicester or any one fancy again a trip to Bournemouth. Driving back yesterday after the second half performance I wonder whether it is worth driving 4 hours to watch a team with Zouma at the back.

He didn’t. Irrespective none of our midfielders save Kante is good enough to provide that security 

The pace of Martial and Rashford can be dealt with by protecting the ball in midfield but time after time Barkley and sadly Pedro lost the ball. 

As for Bournemouth yep I will be there indeed it’s far closer to home (32 miles away) than SB (125 miles) is for me.

This is a season where we will learn a lot about players and indeed FL . Yesterday I suspected that Utd were strong at the front but their midfield didn’t cry out as being that special but once will fell behind we needed to get back into the game and then settle back into a shape  but as the end drew closer we became more desperate and once that happened we were by virtue of that wide open to the counter