5 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Because Frank Lampard is a Chelsea legend. 

Sarri is a smelly banker. 

But if it's truly about integrity and honour then that should be a blanket stance, not a card for people to conveniently pull when someone they like is on the receiving end.

If they have that as a blanket stance towards any player and manager fine, but if they've got/get behind any ruthless decision on a player or manager (barring misconduct one's like Mutu and Conte) then that's double standards.

Also if we play by the same metric they should be declaring Cech's legend status finished as he was part of the decision to fire Frank, at best he didn't fight his corner enough and at worst was completely complicit.

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

Also if we play by the same metric they should be declaring Cech's legend status finished as he was part of the decision to fire Frank, at best he didn't fight his corner enough and at worst was completely complicit.

Peter Cech would have little to no say in the manager being sacked. 

He's a liasion between the coaching staff and the board. A glorified messenger basically. 

19 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I understand the point you are making but I don't think Alonso is the best example.

In addition I have said all along that Lampard was assigned as Chelsea Manager by the board knowing full well his limitations and proceeded to give him the role, Alonso was already with the squad when Lampard joined and wasn't a Lampard appointment and he is a specialist in a position which Lampard does not prefer to use.

With Managers they have a squad to use and had he not played Emerson after Alonso's horror show you may well have been arguing he has no honour and integrity towards Emerson. I don't think you can label a Manager as having no integrity because he looks to use his squad. 

But Lampard also picked Alonso knowing his limitations, but i guess in his mind picked him expecting atleast a certain level at a minimum which was badly below par vs Ajax. 

Likewise with the board on Lampard, they knew they'd be a certain level of learning on the job but didn't bank on two months worth of beyond horrible performances with little signs of improvement.

Lampard wasn't sacked because they expected him to be peak Jose just like Marcos wasn't dropped because Lampard expected prime Cole, but even in a proccess with learning manager's and limited LB's there's still levels as to what a manager/board/owner will deem acceptable (unless you're the Arsenal board for Mikel Arteta and Arteta for Granit Xhaka). 

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Argo

😂😂 This funny 😂😂 claiming I laughed at us conceding go find that post or multiple post that shows me laughing at us conceding negatively any post of me laughing is " if I don't laugh I will ruin my day week and I won't let Chelsea do that".

 As I said before if I hurt your feelings about Lampard as a manager GTFO with your feelings man. f**k your feelings!!!!

Hypocrisy in here is next level, still hung up on Lampard he got sacked so will Tuchel if he doesn't perform suck it up. 

These are the same people who probably booed Sarri and Jorginho at Stamford bridge which is disgusting.

And maybe just maybe Lampard is bang average at the level and isn't ready after one bang average season in the championship.

Also if you don't like my opinions ignore them🤷🏾‍♂️ 

 

 

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Brutos

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Peter Cech would have little to no say in the manager being sacked. 

He's a liasion between the coaching staff and the board. A glorified messenger basically. 

Even if that were true (which i don't think it is) he still didn't make any serious attempt to fight for his ex teammate's job, so going by the same metrics he lacks integrity and honour.

25 minutes ago, Brutos said:

😂😂 This funny 😂😂 claiming I laughed at us conceding go find that post or multiple post that shows me laughing at us conceding negatively any post of me laughing is

 

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34576-chelsea-v-man-city-pl-sun-3rd-jan-2021-1630-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1654882

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34539-wolves-v-chelsea-pl-tue-15th-dec-2020-1800-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1648793

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34605-leicester-v-chelsea-pl-tues-19th-jan-2021-2015-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1659861

 

1 minute ago, coco said:

 

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34576-chelsea-v-man-city-pl-sun-3rd-jan-2021-1630-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1654882

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34539-wolves-v-chelsea-pl-tue-15th-dec-2020-1800-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1648793

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34605-leicester-v-chelsea-pl-tues-19th-jan-2021-2015-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1659861

 

I laughed does it trigger you to get upset?

 

 

1 hour ago, Deino said:

You can like the team but still be critical of it. The reason why teams let us keep the ball is simply because of Tuchel's unknown factor at the moment. It was the same with Lamps' too. The moment his tactics were found out, things turned sour.

We have yet to encounter a team that could shut us down. Hope it never happens but it will and I'd like to think Tuchel can get us out of it when the time comes. 

If we have good attacking movements but our goalscorers still struggle means that we can and have a lot of work to improve. City score boatloads which means their attacking play is getting them results, ours aren't yet but despite that we're winning. You are buying into the hype way too soon. 

I don't buy that argument at all. Why are you critical when we have won 5/6 games?

Tuchel playing with the back 3 isn't unknown at all, there are similarities with how Lampard used the back 3 formation and with Conte as well, the PL isn't that green or naive.

The way people point out our wins is almost like teams let us win by having the ball most of the time - have you forgotten how many times we have lost in the previous seasons while having the ball most of the time?
We got better at it, what Sarri started looked inefficient at first but in due time it looked better and better, Tuchel clearly had the instructions to not risk much for the first game vs Wolves and we were in full control but we focused on keeping the ball and we're clearly good at it. Newcastle pressed us but tactically we were still better and we could have scored more.

This is how you build a team and consistency, I prefer that we win 5/6 games and face better opposition in the next period than to win 3/6 games but to have things to already worry about and to look into. 1 conceded goal due to an own goal in 6 games is something that won't last but it has nothing to do with any kind of hype - we play well, we're in control most of the time and we win games. When we lose then we can talk about things that didn't work, till that time comes I see no reason to criticize our team since we have had perfect results, Tuchel had 1 training ahead of Wolves and we broke the record for passes made and possession, we made Wolves look like a joke team.

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Gol15

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Also if we play by the same metric they should be declaring Cech's legend status finished as he was part of the decision to fire Frank, at best he didn't fight his corner enough and at worst was completely complicit.

 

49 minutes ago, Argo said:

Even if that were true (which i don't think it is) he still didn't make any serious attempt to fight for his ex teammate's job, so going by the same metrics he lacks integrity and honour.

And you know this exactly how?  I doubt very much that you are present at board meetings, or know anyone who is.

28 minutes ago, coco said:

 

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34576-chelsea-v-man-city-pl-sun-3rd-jan-2021-1630-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1654882

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34539-wolves-v-chelsea-pl-tue-15th-dec-2020-1800-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1648793

https://www.theshedend.com/topic/34605-leicester-v-chelsea-pl-tues-19th-jan-2021-2015-gmt/?do=findComment&comment=1659861

 

OOOPS!  Don't tempt the @coco-monster

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

I don't buy that argument at all. Why are you critical when we have won 5/6 games?

Tuchel playing with the back 3 isn't unknown at all, there are similarities with how Lampard used the back 3 formation and with Conte as well, the PL isn't that green or naive.

The way people point out our wins is almost like teams let us win by having the ball most of the time - have you forgotten how many times we have lost in the previous seasons by having the ball most of the time?
We got better at it, what Sarri started looked inefficient at first but in due time it looked better and better, Tuchel clearly had the instructions to not risk much for the first game vs Wolves and we were in full control but we focused on keeping the ball and we're clearly good at it. Newcastle pressed us but tactically we were still better and we could have scored more.

This is how you build a team and consistency, I prefer that we win 5/6 games and face better opposition in the next period than to win 3/6 games but to have things to already worry about and to look into. 1 conceded goal due to an own goal in 6 games is something that won't last but it has nothing to do with any kind of hype - we play well, we're in control most of the time and we win games. When we lose then we can talk about things that didn't work, till that time comes I see no reason to criticize our team since we have had perfect results, Tuchel had 1 training ahead of Wolves and we broke the record for passes made and possession, we made Wolves look like a joke team.

I commend your efforts but you are fighting a losing battle, Tuchel will never be accepted by some just like Sarri.

He could win the PL, CL back to back and you will find some still bitter foaming at the mouth that it wasn't Lampard, waiting for anything negative to pounce on.

 

 

10 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And you know this exactly how?  I doubt very much that you are present at board meetings, or know anyone who is.

So on one hand our board (apparently) sack manager's for little to no reason and are shamelessly ruthless but on the other would have put up with Cech going Rogue?

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Argo

Just now, Gol15 said:

I don't buy that argument at all. Why are you critical when we have won 5/6 games?

Tuchel playing with the back 3 isn't unknown at all, there are similarities with how Lampard used the back 3 formation and with Conte as well, the PL isn't that green or naive.

The way people point out our wins is almost like teams let us win by having the ball most of the time - have you forgotten how many times we have lost in the previous seasons by having the ball most of the time?
We got better at it, what Sarri started looked inefficient at first but in due time it looked better and better, Tuchel clearly had the instructions to not risk much for the first game vs Wolves and we were in full control but we focused on keeping the ball and we're clearly good at it. Newcastle pressed us but tactically we were still better and we could have scored more.

This is how you build a team and consistency, I prefer that we win 5/6 games and face better opposition in the next period than to win 3/6 games but to have things to already worry about and to look into. 1 conceded goal due to an own goal in 6 games is something that won't last but it has nothing to do with any kind of hype - we play well, we're in control most of the time and we win games. When we lose then we can talk about things that didn't work, till that time comes I see no reason to criticize our team since we have had perfect results, Tuchel had 1 training ahead of Wolves and we broke the record for passes made and possession, we made Wolves look like a joke team.

You can celebrate a win and still look at the game to see flaws in our game. Do you think players and managers don't review the game after it finished? Win, draw or lose, the game still needs to be reviewed. 

Tuchel's way of playing is different. You yourself acknowledge it wtf? Of course teams will have issues encountering the unknown. As much as the league is new to Tuchel, Tuchel is new to the league too. Of course they will encounter issues at first. Why do you think most managers don't get to win back to back titles in the Prem nowadays? It's because their tactics gets found out quickly, we are enjoying that right now. Unknown tactics + reinvigorated players = wins because at the very highest levels, small margins makes a huge difference. 

We won those games because Tuchel added something new to the mix. Having CHO and Alonso attack the spaces and causing overloads on the wings to stretch play because teams give us the ball too much. It's not because the players got better overnight, they're still mostly the same but now an element of surprise is introduced. 

We won against Wolves because Wolves were underprepared against Tuchel. 

We are on a momentum atm and we need to maintain consistency but to refuse to look back and see the flaws in all our games is buying into the hype too soon. Tuchel will get found out as did Jose/Pep/Klopp/SAF and the rest and I'd love it if he can then still improve us further. 

13 minutes ago, Brutos said:

I commend your efforts but you are fighting a losing battle, Tuchel will never be accepted by some just like Sarri.

He could win the PL, CL back to back and you will find some still bitter foaming at the mouth that it wasn't Lampard, waiting for anything negative to pounce on.

 

 

Nonsense. Nobody is slagging Tuchel off for winning. 

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

So on one hand our board (apparently) sack manager's for little to no reason and are shamelessly ruthless but on the other would have put up with Cech going Rogue?

Who actually said either of those thing?

 

You said twice that Cech didn't argue for Lampard.  I just asked how you knew that, because I suspect it is just an emotive exaggeration of your position. (Which I'm not totally in disagreement with, by the way, it's just that people making statements about which they have no knowledge at all needs to be picked up on)

 

6 hours ago, Sindre said:

There are quite a few similarities with how City currently play. Guardiola usually switch between a 2-3 or a 3-2 as the defensive block and while Tuchel have exclusively opted for a 3-2 so far but they both leave five players behind the ball usually. I think the pragmatic approach so far has everything to do with Tuchel wanting to start the rebuild with fixing the defense and then work of the offense as we go.

As City we also revert to a back four usually when we defend. So while everyone describes CHO as a wingback these days he's basically playing as a winger. Just with more space to work as the two tens in the middle of the pitch helps stretch the defense and give them more to worry about then just plays down the flank.

 

Leaving 5 man behind is pretty standard almost everyone does that. Some play 23, some 32. The unique thing with pep is the two inverted fb, that is quite rare. 

Other than that pretty much everyone attack that way. 

The reason we can keep doing this is we have scored early so far, if we have to chase game you will leave only 4/3 man behind the ball

 

Yes but some are still arguing the point he's only won against teams expected to win against, just wait until blah blah blah, unfortunately you can only perform against what the fixtures produce, i'm sure some would of loved the first five fixtures for  Tommy Tuch should of been Man city A, Liverpool A, Man Utd A, Leicester H, Southampton H for e.g, then we could really see what this mysterious Bavarian maestro could really achieve...

21 minutes ago, Deino said:

 

We won against Wolves because Wolves were underprepared against Tuchel. 

 

It was a draw

4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

It was a draw

My bad. I confused that one with the Burnley game. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

But if it's truly about integrity and honour then that should be a blanket stance, not a card for people to conveniently pull when someone they like is on the receiving end.

If they have that as a blanket stance towards any player and manager fine, but if they've got/get behind any ruthless decision on a player or manager (barring misconduct one's like Mutu and Conte) then that's double standards.

Also if we play by the same metric they should be declaring Cech's legend status finished as he was part of the decision to fire Frank, at best he didn't fight his corner enough and at worst was completely complicit.

Frank came from West Ham, then played for Man CIty afterwards. John Terry was a Man U supporter his whole life. 

It's a stupid way to look at things imo, people got far too carried away. 

1 minute ago, Deino said:

My bad. I confused that one with the Burnley game. 

Btw we drew against wolves because Tuchel setup the team to get draw, it was his first game. 

IMO Tuchel is a better manager than Lamp, Lamp need more experience. 

Having said that, you are right we haven't really get tested in these 4/5 games but we probably will do better, the team is quite imbalance and Tuchel installed a structured offense which will really help especially in the short term but in the long run if we want to challenge monster team like city or pool we need to change 

44 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Who actually said either of those thing?

 

You said twice that Cech didn't argue for Lampard.  I just asked how you knew that, because I suspect it is just an emotive exaggeration of your position. (Which I'm not totally in disagreement with, by the way, it's just that people making statements about which they have no knowledge at all needs to be picked up on)

 

On the balance of probabilities, Cech was key to the decision of sacking Lampard. I don't see how anyone can even think otherwise. 

He's literally a director of the club and he works at the training ground. If he wasn't key to the decision, then our club truly is a basket case. 

6 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

On the balance of probabilities, Cech was key to the decision of sacking Lampard. I don't see how anyone can even think otherwise. 

He's literally a director of the club and he works at the training ground. If he wasn't key to the decision, then our club truly is a basket case. 

No he isnt, hes a Technical and Performance Advisor, his role is to see all levels are working together. I have no idea how people think he will have made the decision to sack him. He may have been asked for his input but I doubt he wilh have had a key part of the deicision.

My goodness all these pissing matches to prove who is a proper Chelsea fan and who is not. 

We are all pulling for the same team guys jeez, or at least we should be.

Those who backed Lamps are being tarred with the brush of "we hope TT fails so we can say we woz right hahaha" is complete and utter ball an orcs.

Then those who believed Lamps should go seen as more desperate for us to succeed so they can go "see we woz right all along hahaha" I honestly dont see members like Slojo being like, am sure it would be far more about being happy to see the team winning. Maybe others are not like that, time will tell.

Some of the pro Lampard out brigade simply do not understand. None us were saying he was a sure fire success, we simply wanted him to get his full 3 years to have that time to build. If we were not competing then all of us said we would accept he needed to go. We were willing to give him the time and accepted we may struggle.

We also understand your desire for success now, one that was matched by Roman's since he removed Frank and brought in a more expierenced coach. We accept that, is Roman's club and we accept his choice and understand why you wanted it. We did not have to agree with nor did any of us seriously want to see the club suffer.

Yes we got a little disillusioned by what happened but that is all.

What has happened has happened so can w e please judge TT by his own merits and not criticize those who also miss having one of our own at the helm?

3 hours ago, RMH said:

If that were true, which it isn't, the contrary would also hold, that some wanted Frank to lose games so that we could move on to the next shiny coach as soon as possible and not wait until summer.

And those that had no patience with Frank will be the ones turning on Tuchel as the sh*t hits the fan, with those that wanted to give Frank until the end of the season sticking by him to honour the contract and give time to show if he can get out of the slump.

What some don't get is that we are not against Tuchel or want Chelsea to fail, it is that we understand that a contract is something to honour and that, as everything in life, a team/coach will go through ups and downs, and that the same person that is in the sh*t at some point, given time may be able to come back. We don't despair on people or want immediate success but long term stability and a sense of direction as a Club.

Couldn't agree more with that last point. For me it doesn't so much come down to contracts to be honoured, because factually in this sport the meaning of contracts and their duration pretty much comes down to how expensive or lucrative it is to terminate the relationship at a particular point in time. That's also why I wasn't as interested in the duration of Tuchel's contract as others - if it goes well, his contract will be extended, if it goes badly, a longer contract wouldn't keep him at the club a single extra day. To me it's more about identity. I'm aching for the club to finally show patience during a rough patch and believe in the process. To work towards an idea that's bigger than the current season. To not return to square one every few month, reassessing every players role at the club and entire career. And in theory, I always considered Frank Lampard the ideal name to break with that exhausting habit.

Despite all that I ask myself: Aren't there different types of rough patches? Aren't some more confidence inspiring than others? Are we really being fair to the board when we accuse them of applying the linear formula "X manager gets X bad results before the sacking"?

During a run of bad results I'm looking for just one thing: a difference in performances, a reaction to the latest defeat, a back to basics approach, a break of routines. I wanna see the manager inspire confidence in the players and form a tight unit with them, expressing nothing but togetherness in interviews and press conferences. We might still lose, but this way I can see how we will stop losing eventually. It wasn't the results, it was the lack of those factors that made me lose confidence in Frank's work at some point.

Liverpool is going through an awful period right now, no better than Frank's last period on paper (worse results against ManCity and Leicester in fact). They fell from first to sixth in one month, losing 5 out of their last 8 PL matches. It's clearly not just down to bad luck, and yet I think they look better than we did. I can see how they're trying to resimplify things, break through negative patterns, I could see a reaction to ManCity in the Leicester game, in which they played much better for 70 mins, only to deservedly lose 1-3 because the game is 90 mins long. As a Liverpool fan, I would see a reaction to draw belief from.

Ultimately, holding tight through a long run of bad league results is a massive investment into a process for the club - one that I believe would be worth it, one that I hope we'll ultimately make, but only if the process is right. Imagine next season Tuchel goes through the same patch of ten games but the club hold on to him, I wonder how we would react. Will we complain about the unfair unequal treatment of Lampard? Will we be thrilled the club is finally learning from its mistakes? I believe it doesn't have to be either of those - if the performances will make me agree with the board I'll be thrilled, if not I'll be worried.

2 hours ago, Deino said:

You can celebrate a win and still look at the game to see flaws in our game. Do you think players and managers don't review the game after it finished? Win, draw or lose, the game still needs to be reviewed. 

Tuchel's way of playing is different. You yourself acknowledge it wtf? Of course teams will have issues encountering the unknown. As much as the league is new to Tuchel, Tuchel is new to the league too. Of course they will encounter issues at first. Why do you think most managers don't get to win back to back titles in the Prem nowadays? It's because their tactics gets found out quickly, we are enjoying that right now. Unknown tactics + reinvigorated players = wins because at the very highest levels, small margins makes a huge difference. 

We won those games because Tuchel added something new to the mix. Having CHO and Alonso attack the spaces and causing overloads on the wings to stretch play because teams give us the ball too much. It's not because the players got better overnight, they're still mostly the same but now an element of surprise is introduced. 

We won against Wolves because Wolves were underprepared against Tuchel. 

We are on a momentum atm and we need to maintain consistency but to refuse to look back and see the flaws in all our games is buying into the hype too soon. Tuchel will get found out as did Jose/Pep/Klopp/SAF and the rest and I'd love it if he can then still improve us further. 

It's one thing to constantly looking to improve that's not an issue... When you said that "we control the games better specially against teams that allow us to do it" to me that doesn't really sound like you're convinced about our wins in the first place mate.

I find it odd that you're first arguing about how our opposition let us play how we wanted and therefore we won - now you're adding that the teams are not used to Tuchel so we somehow have this huge element of surprise. I think you're somehow refusing to give the proper credit to our team, yes hard games are coming up but we have done well to get the results we desperately needed and I that watched us struggling before this run of games won't deny that the quality of our performances have only gone up.

Pep won the PL twice in a row just 2 years ago, we won it back to back, so did Man United win not only back to back but 3 times in a row not so long ago and more than once since the late 90's, in the last 20 years there had been only 6 teams that won the league, Leicester and Liverpool joining just in the recent 5 years otherwise just 4 teams in 15 years. And we didn't win against Wolves we made sure that we don't lose and it was a draw but they beat us earlier in the season.