1 minute ago, dkw said:

23 year old Trevoh who was dropped for no reason for Azpilicueta once the season got tough....yeah, that proves me wrong too.

So I take it for the sake of consistency you were also this angry when Tomori was dropped? (And unlike Trevoh was never brought back in) Or when Lamptey was dropped after his fantastic performance at The Emitates and sold a month later?

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

So I take it for the sake of consistency you were also this angry when Tomori was dropped? (And unlike Trevoh was never brought back in) Or when Lamptey was dropped after his fantastic performance at The Emitates and sold a month later?

Yes, I sort of understood why Tomori was dropped as he had a few poor games, but selling him was stupid.

Lamptey left as he had no way of getting past Reece James, I could see his reasoning.

We have no strikers, we're desperate for centre backs, our midfield lacks quality so all 3 of Colwill, Broja and Gilmour should be given every opportunity to step up. But they won't. Instead they see failures Barkely, Emerson and Batshuyi stayung with the pre season squad while theyre sent down to the under 23's.

Vale will follow them as he won't get game time, and I guarantee Gallagher will be looking to leave if he doesn't get significant game time. 

Edited July 18, 20224 yr by dkw

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

Yes, I sort of understood why Tomori was dropped as he had a few poor games, but selling him was stupid.

Lamptey left as he had no way of getting past Reece James, I could see his reasoning.

We have no strikers, we're desperate for centre backs, our midfield lacks quality so all 3 of Colwill, Broja and Gilmour should be given every opportunity to step up. But they won't, Vale will follow them as he won't get game time, and I guarantee Gallagher will be looking to leave if he doesn't get significant game time. 

I don’t know about Gallagher, I could tell he has a lot of self belief and confident he’s good enough to be a starter. He probably is.

Just now, dansubrosa said:

I don’t know about Gallagher, I could tell he has a lot of self belief and confident he’s good enough to be a starter. He probably is.

He definitely is, he brings everything we're severely lacking currently in our midfield. 

4 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Tuchel has no plans for the future. It's here and now, ala Mourinho. 

Think we need to accept that. 

Don't know about Tuchel, personally I don't think he has proven he is keen on blooding the youngsters over more experienced players. Also don't think he would claim he has already integrated Gallagher just yet.

To be fair, as much as some of us would like to see them at least tried out in pre-season warm up games, over some of the older players and the deadwood, it's his decision and I'm sure he's doing what he thinks is best. Also I'm fairly certain Todd and the new owners don't give a toot about the future at the moment. They are only focused on the here and now and making their mark on the EPL.

5 hours ago, dkw said:

So sell the current England under 19s captain for 8m? How about no, maybe give the lad a chance in the squad.

The fact is our tour squad has failed players like Barkely, Batshuyi, Emerson, Kennedy in it, yet Tuchel chooses to send Billy Gilmour, Armando Broja, Harvey Vale, and Tino Anjorin home.  That tells us everything we need to know.

Would love to see him get a chance in the squad, however we need some commitment from him 2. Sign a 2 year extension give the club some protection on their investment in him. 

Is the same trick Lamptey and Livramento and several other youths have done over recent years to force moves.

5 hours ago, dkw said:

Utter horse sh*t.

You say it's utter horse sh*t but you've done nothing but criticize him since he joined the club.

I'm on here all the time mostly because I've got nothing better to do and literally the only time I recall you not criticizing him was the night we won the Champions League last year.

I am a little disappointed TT decided to send those lads away. The likes of Barkley, Sarr, Emerson, Kenedy I.e. the deadwood no hopers should have been cut first.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

I am a little disappointed TT decided to send those lads away. The likes of Barkley, Sarr, Emerson, Kenedy I.e. the deadwood no hopers should have been cut first.

If Batshuayi, Barkley, Sarr, Emerson and Kenedy are all still Chelsea players by the end of the transfer window, and the likes of Colwill, Broja, Gilmour, Vale and even Anjorin have been sold, then that is a joke and something Tuchel would deserve massive criticism for. Those 5 have had their chance for years now and they have failed, they don't deserve any more chances. There is nothing they can show Tuchel, their chances of reaching the highest level of the game are over.

The 5 I listed, plus Rahman, Bakayoko, Miazga and now Lukaku, all but 2 of them have been on our books for over 5 years now. They all need to go. We got rid of one, Drinkwater, now the rest need to follow and hopefully Sarr and Lukaku follow them soon after.

Edited July 19, 20224 yr by Scott Harris

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

I am a little disappointed TT decided to send those lads away. The likes of Barkley, Sarr, Emerson, Kenedy I.e. the deadwood no hopers should have been cut first.

Of the 3 players sent home, I'd argue Vale was the biggest disappointment. It seems as though both Broja and Gilmour are pushing for moves, and perhaps their attitude in training reflected that. I did hear a rumour that one of our younger players was arrested in Vegas for underage gambling so may have also been related.

Even with those 3 gone we have 24 left on tour, with Kante and RLC presumably still in the plan but left at home due to vaccination requirements. I doubt TT will regularly use as many as 26 players so I would say there will be further trimming. Probably Kenedy, and Bats. I would also say Barkley will probably leave now that we have Conor back. Sarr and Emerson will probably be dependent on whether there are further defensive signings. And of course there is still Alonso and Dave to sort out.

I did hear some more positive news about Colwill today, which leads me to hope he may yet stay and be part of first team squad too. If we end up signing 1 or 2 more of our targets this is how things may look (note that I assuming Ziyech will leave for Milan, and Broja for West Ham):

 

GK - Mendy, Kepa, Bettinelli

DF - Reece, Thiago, Koulibaly, New Signing, Chalobah, Ampadu, Colwill, Chilwell, Emerson or Alonso

MF - Kante, Gallagher, Jorgi, Kova, RLC, Mount

FW - Havertz, Werner, Sterling, Pulisic, CHO, New Signing

If we aren't able to sign anybody else, I would help we hold on to both Broja and Dave who could cover those 2 spots. 

3 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

If Batshuayi, Barkley, Sarr, Emerson and Kenedy are all still Chelsea players by the end of the transfer window, and the likes of Colwill, Broja, Gilmour, Vale and even Anjorin have been sold, then that is a joke and something Tuchel would deserve massive criticism for. Those 5 have had their chance for years now and they have failed, they don't deserve any more chances. There is nothing they can show Tuchel, their chances of reaching the highest level of the game are over.

We are trying to put them in the shop window so someone can potentially take them off our hands. Banish them to the development squad and you've just made sure you are stuck with them and their ridiculous wages that Granovskaia gave them.

 

49 minutes ago, Sindre said:

We are trying to put them in the shop window so someone can potentially take them off our hands. Banish them to the development squad and you've just made sure you are stuck with them and their ridiculous wages that Granovskaia gave them.

 

They have been here for 200 years, if somebody want to take them off from our hands they would have done it 

The issue with the likes of Barkley, Emerson, Batshuayi etc is they are all on stupid wages which no other club is going to be willing to pay. Add to that the stupid policy we have had off offering players one year extensions before sending them out on loan rather than letting their contracts down (Batshuayi and Bakayoko both benefited from this)

All of that is the fault of the old regime, and very little to do with the new owners or Tuchel. 

I wonder for how long are we going to use the 'old regime' and Marina Granovskaia as an excuse for the bad things that happen in the future. So it is Marina's fault that Tuchel sent back home the youngsters and played Sarr, Emerson, Batshuayi or Kenedy ahead of them....

7 hours ago, Amputechture said:

You say it's utter horse sh*t but you've done nothing but criticize him since he joined the club.

I'm on here all the time mostly because I've got nothing better to do and literally the only time I recall you not criticizing him was the night we won the Champions League last year.

No I haven't, I have praised him loads of times, when he merited it, and also pointed out when I've not been happy with his decisions, same as I do with any player or staff.

I don't like the style of football we play under him, I didn't like the way he treat some of our younger players when he first got here. I was willing to give him the benefit of time to settle in, build etc. But we haven't, our attack is still as sterile as when he first arrived, he still has us playing a tedious, docile way that's caused us untold problems in the league because we cant kill of teams, at all. 

To say I hate him is horsesh*t, I don't even know the guy. But I am allowed to dislike his methods, his style of player etc. This isn't a cult where criticism isn't allowed. 

16 minutes ago, dkw said:

 

I don't like the style of football we play under him, I didn't like the way he treat some of our younger players when he first got here. 

This. Tuchel has shown tactically that he is probably our best coach in years. Far better than Sarri or lamp, better than Conte. 

But do I like his very conservative football? Nope. 

Do I like how he treat our youngster? Nope. 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 20224 yr by Bob stark

10 minutes ago, RMH said:

So it is Marina's fault that Tuchel sent back home the youngsters and played Sarr, Emerson, Batshuayi or Kenedy ahead of them....

Did I say that?

The reality is unless someone is stupid enough to match their wages then the likes of Barkley, Emerson etc will be a part of the squad, because of the stupid wages they were put on previously. 

The youngsters that have been sent back seemingly want to leave for other clubs. As a club we have never stood in the way of players who want to do that. Old Regime or not.

24 minutes ago, RMH said:

I wonder for how long are we going to use the 'old regime' and Marina Granovskaia as an excuse for the bad things that happen in the future. So it is Marina's fault that Tuchel sent back home the youngsters and played Sarr, Emerson, Batshuayi or Kenedy ahead of them....

Why pretend that her decisions is not going to affect us for a long time?

Granovskaia left a squad in complete shambles and also with a wage structure that ensures we are stuck with the dross she brought in. It was always going to take time to clean up the mess but at least we have started.

There is a very obvious reason why the "youngsters" have been sent him. Vale is not interested in signing a new contract and is looking to leave. He could be smart and sign a good contract and then prove himself on loan in the Championship like James, Chalobah, Gallagher and Mount. If he did that he could very well have had a future here. If he doesn't want to thats fine but good riddance then.

And Gilmour and Broja are looking to leave the club because they aren't good enough to be starters at this club yet. And they seek to join clubs where they would be which is fair enough. They should not be kept against their will in this case and it's quite obviously all down to the decisions they themselves have made.

 

As much as I like Gilmour, at this moment in time he probably only takes Barkley's place in the squad - does he start over Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho? At this moment in time no. If we do end up shifting to a back 4 and Mount plays more regularly in midfield, does he start over him? Again, no.

Barkley played 6 times in the league for us last year - assuming Gilmour took Barkley's place in the squad he would get similar minutes this season. That's not a reflection of Tuchel's youth policy, but more an indication that Gilmour would be competing with quality players to take their place, and for me he isn't there yet in terms of quality. 

Mount and James, whilst already established under Lampard have kicked on and both excelled under Tuchel. Chalobah had a really good breakout season from nowhere and was more often than not reliable, and it seems as though Gallaher will get plenty of minutes this season too. 

This narrative of Tuchel not trusting the academy players is really jarring. He is just about to start his second full season here, 1 youth player already has a decent role in the squad, another looks set to be getting chances this year, and 2 are key members of the 11 every week. 

If the likes of Broja and Gilmour want to go elsewhere to get plenty of football, then so be it. But as a team who wants to compete for the Premier League and Champions League, we cannot bow to a youth player everytime they make noise about wanting regular first team football. 

On 06/06/2022 at 11:31, timetowaste said:

Always confuses me how, for a team that at the minute can’t register new players and are in economical shambles, the media link a new player with Barcelona every day

Most players "would like" to go to Barcelona. Most of their Agents will be aware that Barca's management haven't got a clue what they are doing, negotiating or signing, so the commissions just get bigger. So, in short, putting Barca in the frame for their player is the default "go to" The rest is just made up by the Spanish sports press.

21 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

As much as I like Gilmour, at this moment in time he probably only takes Barkley's place in the squad - does he start over Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho? At this moment in time no. If we do end up shifting to a back 4 and Mount plays more regularly in midfield, does he start over him? Again, no.

And not just this. The spot he potentially could have had in this squad is literally going to be taken by another youngster of our who's about the same age as Gilmour. And that's Conor Gallagher. Gallagher have quite simply just proved he's a much better footballer and that's why he and not Gilmour will be a key part of the squad and play a lot of games for us this season.

So much for the "Tuchel hates the youngsters and are going to sell them for some shiny toy from abroad" arguments that some stupidos continue to spout.

1 hour ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Did I say that?

The reality is unless someone is stupid enough to match their wages then the likes of Barkley, Emerson etc will be a part of the squad, because of the stupid wages they were put on previously. 

The youngsters that have been sent back seemingly want to leave for other clubs. As a club we have never stood in the way of players who want to do that. Old Regime or not.

The fact that they are on stupid wages does not make Tuchel play them ahead of the youngster. The fact that he played Batshuayi ahead of Broja or Barkley ahead of Gilmour is just embarrassing. And due to their stupid wages, there's no putting in the window excuse since no one has going to pay them. But it has to be the fault of the old regime, yeah, sure.

If they don't want to stay is probably because they see Batshuayi playing ahead of them. It is not only a one way traffic, we should be giving them opportunities in these friendlies.

49 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Why pretend that her decisions is not going to affect us for a long time?

Granovskaia left a squad in complete shambles and also with a wage structure that ensures we are stuck with the dross she brought in. It was always going to take time to clean up the mess but at least we have started.

There is a very obvious reason why the "youngsters" have been sent him. Vale is not interested in signing a new contract and is looking to leave. He could be smart and sign a good contract and then prove himself on loan in the Championship like James, Chalobah, Gallagher and Mount. If he did that he could very well have had a future here. If he doesn't want to thats fine but good riddance then.

And Gilmour and Broja are looking to leave the club because they aren't good enough to be starters at this club yet. And they seek to join clubs where they would be which is fair enough. They should not be kept against their will in this case and it's quite obviously all down to the decisions they themselves have made.

 

But of course they don't want to stay when you see the likes of Batsman, Barkely or Kenedy playing ahead of you in pre-season friendlies! If, instead, Tuchel had played them, maybe they'd still want to go, but at least we'd know whether they could make it here or not. And don't give me the "putting in the window" excuse, because they've been in the window for seasons and no one has ever come to get them, try the academy young players and see whether they can take a spot in the first squad and talk to them.

And, while Marina probably gave them an over the top contract, it's not an excuse for playing them ahead of the academy in a pre-season friendly. So using Marina to explain our failures is just not fair. She's at fault for everything that we fail at, but you give her no praise for anything of the good things that we do.

5 minutes ago, RMH said:

The fact that they are on stupid wages does not make Tuchel play them ahead of the youngster. The fact that he played Batshuayi ahead of Broja or Barkley ahead of Gilmour is just embarrassing. And due to their stupid wages, there's no putting in the window excuse since no one has going to pay them. But it has to be the fault of the old regime, yeah, sure.

If they don't want to stay is probably because they see Batshuayi playing ahead of them. It is not only a one way traffic, we should be giving them opportunities in these friendlies.

Maybe they're just not as good as everyone on here seems to think they are. If they were, they would be in the squad and getting plenty of football. As shown by Chalobah last season, and hopefully Gallagher this. 

My point re the 'old regime' is they put players on mega contracts that they have done nothing to justify since being at Chelsea, and therefore we are stuck with them because nobody else is daft enough to pay Ross Barkley £100k a week. Not sure how you're not getting that. 

13 minutes ago, RMH said:

But of course they don't want to stay when you see the likes of Batsman, Barkely or Kenedy playing ahead of you in pre-season friendlies! If, instead, Tuchel had played them, maybe they'd still want to go, but at least we'd know whether they could make it here or not. And don't give me the "putting in the window" excuse, because they've been in the window for seasons and no one has ever come to get them, try the academy young players and see whether they can take a spot in the first squad and talk to them.

And, while Marina probably gave them an over the top contract, it's not an excuse for playing them ahead of the academy in a pre-season friendly. So using Marina to explain our failures is just not fair. She's at fault for everything that we fail at, but you give her no praise for anything of the good things that we do.

Ever thought about that they actually want to leave hence aren't keen of being involved in friendlies (it's only been one so far, right? And y'all get your panties twisted already) getting injured for example? You realize that next to no other top club gets 2-3 academy players into their squad each season, even ONE is a big task. So what happens is that the academy players get sold - or loaned depending on the contract. Easy as that. PSG does it, Bayern does it, Barca does it, Real does it (not sure which was their latest academy product), City does it, United tries to bring em in but that's a dangerous road if you have to be on point to even make the CL.

Young players see the likes of Bellingham, Sancho, Tchouameni, Dembele, Haaland et al. rocking it at tier two clubs as regulars and receiving ridiculous deals in the process. 

If TT develops two academy players like Trev and Gallagher (maybe Colwill too) + making Mount and James even better and eventually (big task) show CHO a way to become a regular starter within two years being manager here that'd be quite an achievement, especially considering the circumstances. 

Edited July 19, 20224 yr by weetee