1 minute ago, nonotnowjim said:

do you genuinely believe that the slow, sideways, insipid and boring football that we play most of the time is good enough?

Until the injury crisis hit last year I don't think we played that way at all. What Tuchel wants is high octane football and then directness towards the oppositions goal when we win the ball back.

The fact that we lost both our wingbacks with no adequate cover crushed us last season. To make things even worse Kovacic and Kante were both out for about 50% of the games each. Meaning Jorginho were completely overworked, burned out and had to play through injuries in midfield. It greatly impacted our performance as it would for any team and since then we've had some complete overreactions by some who does not take circumstances into consideration.

With a full squad available Tuchel won us the Champions League while playing brilliant football (outplaying Atletico, Real Madrid, City) in his first season. In his second season we were top of the league until the injury crisis struck us. So for me he's very much proved he's the very best manager we can ask for and I am not about to overreact about our performances nosediving when we had terrible luck with injuries, Covid, sanctions, uncertainty and more to an extent i've never experience before.

 

18 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Until the injury crisis hit last year I don't think we played that way at all. What Tuchel wants is high octane football and then directness towards the oppositions goal when we win the ball back.

The fact that we lost both our wingbacks with no adequate cover crushed us last season. To make things even worse Kovacic and Kante were both out for about 50% of the games each. Meaning Jorginho were completely overworked, burned out and had to play through injuries in midfield. It greatly impacted our performance as it would for any team and since then we've had some complete overreactions by some who does not take circumstances into consideration.

With a full squad available Tuchel won us the Champions League while playing brilliant football (outplaying Atletico, Real Madrid, City) in his first season. In his second season we were top of the league until the injury crisis struck us. So for me he's very much proved he's the very best manager we can ask for and I am not about to overreact about our performances nosediving when we had terrible luck with injuries, Covid, sanctions, uncertainty and more to an extent i've never experience before.

 

Yes - circumstances were not ideal.

But he didnt find any solutions or try different styles. To keep doing the same thing, over and over again without trying anything different, which resulted in the same stale football was on him.

For what it is worth, I dont want him gone either. I just want him to take his head out of his ass, wake up and try something different, when we have seen over a prolonged period the same insipid football, but blame the players "precision". If the players cant play in the style he wants, drop them. If he doesn't have enough players of sufficient quality to play the system he wants, then play another system. But to continue playing the same rubbish players, in the same rubbish formation, witht he same rubbish slow build up has to stop.

30 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Until the injury crisis hit last year I don't think we played that way at all. What Tuchel wants is high octane football and then directness towards the oppositions goal when we win the ball back.

The fact that we lost both our wingbacks with no adequate cover crushed us last season. To make things even worse Kovacic and Kante were both out for about 50% of the games each. Meaning Jorginho were completely overworked, burned out and had to play through injuries in midfield. It greatly impacted our performance as it would for any team and since then we've had some complete overreactions by some who does not take circumstances into consideration

 

That’s not true even before we had Juve away .. Burnley.. villa which were dire.. I don’t think from day 1 TT tactics have worked great offensively..

4 minutes ago, Jangz said:

That’s not true even before we had Juve away .. Burnley.. villa which were dire.. I don’t think from day 1 TT tactics have worked great offensively..

Every team have individual games where things doesn't come off. City & Liverpool had several last season for example.

Burnley game is a poor example again. It was target practise but our attackers couldn't hit a barn door.

 

10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I want encourage people to not judging this team too much until we see 

Sterling - Kai - Mount 

Chil - Kova - Kante - james

Koulibaly - Silva - chalo

Kai is a weakness in that side. Too predictable.

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

That’s not true even before we had Juve away .. Burnley.. villa which were dire.. I don’t think from day 1 TT tactics have worked great offensively..

Burnley was probably the most dominant performance of the season.

It was mental that ended a draw.

I don't understand how anyone can criticise Tuchel or doubt how he sets us up offensively.

He's a manager known for the high quality attacking football his teams play,  talents like Neymar and Dembele had the best seasons of their career under him.

Give Tuchel a chance with some actually talented attacking players instead of lumbering him with untalented bums like Pulisic and he'll have us playing great stuff.

No manager can get high quality quick attacking play out of Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech.  the talent just isn't there to work with.

Edited July 22, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

Just now, HazardousChoice said:

I don't understand how anyone can criticise Tuchel or doubt how he sets us up offensively.

He's a manager known for the high quality attacking football his teams play,  talents like Neymar and Dembele had the best seasons of their career under him.

Give Tuchel a chance with some actually talented attacking players instead of lumbering him with untalented bums like Pulisic and he'll have us playing great stuff.

Yet he wants to sign defenders and has only added Sterling. Leaving him with Sterling, Mount and possibly Broja, who may or may not be a good player for us, and the rest who, to use your terms, are a bunch of bums.

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Yet he wants to sign defenders and has only added Sterling. Leaving him with Sterling, Mount and possibly Broja, who may or may not be a good player for us, and the rest who, to use your terms, are a bunch of bums.

We also wanted to sign Dembele, Raphina, possibly Gnabry but couldn't get them over the line.

Obviously Tuchel knows how untalented our attacking players are and how important it is we sign at least one more winger before the season starts.

We haven't even replaced the 2 defenders we lost on frees so it's not like we're just stockpiling defenders.

Edited July 22, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

1 minute ago, HazardousChoice said:

We also wanted to sign Dembele, Raphina, possibly Gnabry but couldn't get them over the line.

Obviously Tuchel knows how untalented our attacking players are and how important it is we sign at least one more winger before the season starts.

We haven't even replaced the 2 defenders we lost on frees so it's not like we're just stockpiling defenders.

Targeted the wrong attackers then. Gabriel Jesus should have been a must have.

1 hour ago, HazardousChoice said:

I don't understand how anyone can criticise Tuchel or doubt how he sets us up offensively.

He's a manager known for the high quality attacking football his teams play,  talents like Neymar and Dembele had the best seasons of their career under him.

Give Tuchel a chance with some actually talented attacking players instead of lumbering him with untalented bums like Pulisic and he'll have us playing great stuff.

No manager can get high quality quick attacking play out of Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech.  the talent just isn't there to work with.

Tbf Lamps had us at the top of the table with those attackers until Ziyech got injured and the defense was exposed in the system.

I do agree that he needs world class players and none specifically attackers. Klopp and Pep both have world class players. Yet both coached the players to that level, Salah, Mane, Sterling, B. Silva, Sane were not world class before playing for those coaches, afterwards there's no doubt they all operate at very high levels.

Tuchel's track history is very good for attackers, as a squad as a whole he actually creates a very good attack. Individually the output is very poor, either he's failing to bring the best out of the players or they're just not good enough. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Edited July 22, 20223 yr by LongtimerLurker

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Kai is a weakness in that side. Too predictable.

I want to see Kai as a false 9 in a 4 atb system mate. I think that would get the best out of him, and potentially gives us midfield superiority. With at least 3 other players dedicated to attack the box when he vacates the central area.

With Kounde and Koulibaly we have the secure back 4 we thought we had with Rudi and Andreas, which sadly flattered to decieve. I'd love to see a 4231 with our usual line up minus a cb to accommodate another body in the middle.

I've got mad respect for Silva and hope he plays plenty next season, but the back 3 mainly suits him in theory. All our players are more than capable and can thrive. Yet every single player in the lineup below is more than capable to play in a back 4 and thrive in fact I'd argue they're all in their favoured positions minus Puli if he plays on the right.

                                 Mendy

   James         Koundé     Koulibaly    Chilwell 

            Jorginho/Kanté      Kovacic

Puli/Ziyech            Mount              Sterling

                                Havertz

High line, attacking fullbacks that overlap with the wingers, Ziyech can stay wide, Sterling can come inside. Mount can do Mount things and Jorgi can run the game.

                

 

 

 

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I want to see Kai as a false 9 in a 4 atb system mate. I think that would get the best out of him, and potentially gives us midfield superiority. With at least 3 other players dedicated to attack the box when he vacates the central area.

With Kounde and Koulibaly we have the secure back 4 we thought we had with Rudi and Andreas, which sadly flattered to decieve. I'd love to see a 4231 with our usual line up minus a cb to accommodate another body in the middle.

I've got mad respect for Silva and hope he plays plenty next season, but the back 3 mainly suits him in theory. All our players are more than capable and can thrive. Yet every single player in the lineup below is more than capable to play in a back 4 and thrive in fact I'd argue they're all in their favoured positions minus Puli if he plays on the right.

                                 Mendy

   James         Koundé     Koulibaly    Chilwell 

            Jorginho/Kanté      Kovacic

Puli/Ziyech            Mount              Sterling

                                Havertz

High line, attacking fullbacks that overlap with the wingers, Ziyech can stay wide, Sterling can come inside. Mount can do Mount things and Jorgi can run the game.

                

If we could somehow fuse Jorginho and Kante as players, the formation would be ideal. 

Unfortunately it remains unbalanced. 

Really like TT. I hope he gets the players he needs to build his own team back to front

11 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

I don't understand how anyone can criticise Tuchel or doubt how he sets us up offensively.

He's a manager known for the high quality attacking football his teams play,  talents like Neymar and Dembele had the best seasons of their career under him.

Give Tuchel a chance with some actually talented attacking players instead of lumbering him with untalented bums like Pulisic and he'll have us playing great stuff.

No manager can get high quality quick attacking play out of Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech.  the talent just isn't there to work with.

Neymar did play for Barca right? How did he have best season under him when everything he won at Barca (CL; hello..) trumps whatever he has achieved at PSG. Even stats wise. Dembele also played one season under him at Dortmund , and just had his best season (half season) at Barca last season.

Fans keep muddling up history when it comes to Tuchel; the reality is the CL is his biggest career achievement to date. Sure he won Ligue 1 a couple of times, but I think he also has the honour of been the only manager not to have won it since the Qataris took over.

 

10 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Tbf Lamps had us at the top of the table with those attackers until Ziyech got injured and the defense was exposed in the system.

I do agree that he needs world class players and none specifically attackers. Klopp and Pep both have world class players. Yet both coached the players to that level, Salah, Mane, Sterling, B. Silva, Sane were not world class before playing for those coaches, afterwards there's no doubt they all operate at very high levels.

Tuchel's track history is very good for attackers, as a squad as a whole he actually creates a very good attack. Individually the output is very poor, either he's failing to bring the best out of the players or they're just not good enough. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The Lamps one is very interesting; fans keep saying these forward players aren’t good and they all need binning, but a rookie manager had them performing and scoring. 
The only forward player you could argue Klopp & Pep have bought that has been “near world class” will be Halaand, and it’s a grey area. Sure they have paid huge fees for Grealish & Núñez but both players aren’t world class players.

What track history does Tuchel have with attackers? He inherited a squad with Cavani & Neymar, board bought Mbappe. I  don’t think getting those 3 world class players to perform well classifies as a track history. Same applies to Dortmund when he had Aubameyang & Reus.  

34 minutes ago, ducavis said:

 

What track history does Tuchel have with attackers?

He's only 48yo and had 6 seasons (2 BVB, 1.5 PSG, 1.5 CFC) in managing at the top level, he's done pretty well so far compared to other managers with equally little management history.

17 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Yet he wants to sign defenders and has only added Sterling. Leaving him with Sterling, Mount and possibly Broja, who may or may not be a good player for us, and the rest who, to use your terms, are a bunch of bums.

It's July 23rd, not September, judge his transfer window when it's over.

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

Neymar did play for Barca right? How did he have best season under him when everything he won at Barca (CL; hello..) trumps whatever he has achieved at PSG. Even stats wise. Dembele also played one season under him at Dortmund , and just had his best season (half season) at Barca last season.

Fans keep muddling up history when it comes to Tuchel; the reality is the CL is his biggest career achievement to date. Sure he won Ligue 1 a couple of times, but I think he also has the honour of been the only manager not to have won it since the Qataris took over.

Ey? Three managers have failed to win it under the owners watch but he wasn't one of them.

5 hours ago, ducavis said:

mps one is very interesting; fans keep saying these forward players aren’t good and they all need binning, but a rookie manager had them performing and scoring. 
The only forward player you could argue Klopp & Pep have bought that has been “near world class” will be Halaand, and it’s a grey area. Sure they have paid huge fees for Grealish & Núñez but both players aren’t world class players.

What track history does Tuchel have with attackers? He inherited a squad with Cavani & Neymar, board bought Mbappe. I  don’t think getting those 3 world class players to perform well classifies as a track history. Same applies to Dortmund when he had Aubameyang & Reus.  

Did he? Abraham's goals had dried up and he was putting in really poor performances. Werner was as sh*t in front of goal for Lampard as he is for Tuchel. Pulisic's injuries had finally caught up to him and ruined his form. Ziyech wasn't performing. Hudson-Odoi wasn't getting into the team. Havertz looked like a dud. Mount was the only one performing, and we can't say he has gotten worse under Tuchel.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Ey? Three managers have failed to win it under the owners watch but he wasn't one of them.

Quite ... Tuchel was in charge for two complete seasons, both of which resulted in PSG being champions. He then got sacked at the end of December in his 3rd season, with PSG in 3rd, and then Pochetino came in ... 

I imagine the Kounde developments have not left him best pleased. Anyone who saw the video of him being asked by Sky Sports yesterday about Kounde will see him being coy, yet presenting himself as confident confident excited.

I am becoming increasingly concerned about the state of the squad. We lost 2 CB's for nothing, something pretty much all of us assumed was going to happen since the new year, and we still haven't replaced them today, with only 2 weeks remaining until the new season starts. I know the ownership change has had a big part to play, but it was something we urgently needed to address and it's blowing up in our faces. Koulibaly may be a good signing, but he is reliant on his pace, how much longer will that pace last? he's in his 30's, he could lose it at any moment. Thiago Silva is 38 and is almost certainly in his final season with us. Chalobah and Colwill are not at the level needed for where we want to be yet and they may never be. We reallly need a CB that is young enough to come into the first 11 now but still hasn't quite entered their prime yet. Kounde would have been that player, but we have had our pants pulled down with that one.

We are also going into next season with the same issue we had with Rudiger and Christensen, but this time it's Jorginho and Kante. I have heard bugger all about their contract situations, so are we going to lose them for a free as well next season and desperately scramble for more midfielders like we currently are with CB's? Midfield is already pretty complicated as it is. One DM and 4 other CM's playing for one spot and all of them have question marks against them.

We still haven't bought in cover for our wing backs, something that needs serious addressing when you look how much worse we are without either Chilwell or James. What are we going to do, go into next season with Kenedy and Emerson? two players who have been on our books for 5 years and giving us nothing in return. Our attack still worries me, even with the addition of Sterling and we still have so many rubbish players at the club on big wages.

Our squad just seems like a bit of a mess and I wonder if we are ever going to get a settled side under Tuchel. I highly suspect he will be on Real Madrid's radar once Carlo Ancelotti has a wobble.