4 hours ago, RMH said:

Fair enough, but he insists in playing Batshayi whom he knows, positively, is not good enough no matter how much energy he spends in training and who he is going to send away as soon as possible. Do you think that Broja, who’s had a season in the PL, is not ready for a friendly against Club America?

What was he supposed to do ? Pick Broja to hop around on one leg up front, while trying hard not to trip over the protective boot on his injured foot ?

1 hour ago, just said:

As for Norwich there were a good many on here who felt it was the wrong loan for Gilmour and strongly voiced that opinion. The perennial yo-yo team, relegated from the EPL more times than any other club. You name checked Aaron's, Cantwell, Godfrey and Lewis as supposedly being decent players. I really don't think they are Argo. Either at the start of last season or now. None of them would make it at Chelsea IMO.

But wouldn't you expect Gilmour to be their best player ? The proverbial big fish in the small pond ? He wasn't even close to that, to the point that he didn't even make the Norwich first team at times ... the same Norwich team that was being touted as the worst PL side ever at one point. If Gilmour can't get in that team, how on earth can he be expected to make it at Chelsea ahead of Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Gallagher, RLC and Barkley ?

Sell.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

I don't think we were wrong sending him to Norwich. Remember the Norwich of 19/20 (atleast pre lockdown)? Despite not great results they were getting plaudits for the way they were trying to play and how well the likes of Aarons, Cantwell, Godfrey and Lewis were performing and developing (I remember at the time thinking I wouldn't have been against getting the former two ourselves if we didn't have James and Mount) and Skipp did well for them all be it in a lower division.

I don't think we could have forseen a purist like Farke suddenly sh*tting it and going all Pulis. But even after that he still should have done a lot better. You mention Gallagher, the year before that I don't think we or he forseen him playing under Sam Allardyce for half a season but he made the best of it and look at him now.

Often sneered at, but Big Sam with over 50 years in the game playing and managing at all levels can teach a young player the basics of being a professional footballer far better than Farke ...who to coin a phrase has done Farke all. 

3 minutes ago, charierre said:

Often sneered at, but Big Sam with over 50 years in the game playing and managing at all levels can teach a young player the basics of being a professional footballer far better than Farke ...who to coin a phrase has done Farke all. 

Don't get me wrong I don't think Big Sam is/was a bad manager in the slightest (what he done at Bolton and Blackburn especially was incredible) but I also don't think his tactics specifically lends itself well to young creative players. While Conor still played well for him his attacking metrics fell through the floor after he succeded Bilic.

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

Don't get me wrong I don't think Big Sam is/was a bad manager in the slightest (what he done at Bolton and Blackburn especially was incredible) but I also don't think his tactics specifically lends itself well to young creative players. While Conor still played well for him his attacking metrics fell through the floor after he succeded Bilic.

A loan is as much teaching the young player the basics of being a footballer, preparation for matches, differing tactics and how to greatly conduct yourself. This is what Sam offers in abundance. We already knew he could play, taking him out of the safe environment of the academy gives him a chance prove they can step up amongst his more experienced piers. I actually think the period under Sam could have been the making of him,he performed well for Bilic and then similarly played well for Sam under completely different terms ,setting him up for his real breakthrough at Palace.

47 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

But wouldn't you expect Gilmour to be their best player ? The proverbial big fish in the small pond ? He wasn't even close to that, to the point that he didn't even make the Norwich first team at times ... the same Norwich team that was being touted as the worst PL side ever at one point. If Gilmour can't get in that team, how on earth can he be expected to make it at Chelsea ahead of Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Gallagher, RLC and Barkley ?

Sell.

No not necessarily SF. Gilmour's obviously not the most physical player so he won't dominate opponents with strength and power. His key strengths are his creative vision and passing range, but to function he needs people to give him the ball and players to pick out with a quick early pass. The times I watched him at Norwich he really wasn't getting that. Most of his time was spent trying to hunt the ball down and win it back. Not his strong points. I made the hypothetical argument last season that I felt a player like Jorginho would have been a massive failure in that Norwich team. Why? For the reasons I have just described. Jorginho is a system player. He needs the right system and, good players around him, to get any real value from him.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

But wouldn't you expect Gilmour to be their best player ? The proverbial big fish in the small pond ? He wasn't even close to that, to the point that he didn't even make the Norwich first team at times ... the same Norwich team that was being touted as the worst PL side ever at one point. If Gilmour can't get in that team, how on earth can he be expected to make it at Chelsea ahead of Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Gallagher, RLC and Barkley ?

Sell.

He was in November, when he got back to back MOTM against Southampton and Wolves, plus another there around for Scotland against England. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cg003m3y827o

 

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

What was he supposed to do ? Pick Broja to hop around on one leg up front, while trying hard not to trip over the protective boot on his injured foot ?

Fair enough, as far as I’m aware, only today they’ve told us that he got injured and came back to Cobham to get treatment. I hope that what Tuchel has said becomes true and he is not sold.

I think its time TT plays 8 or more starters in a few pre-season games.  We lack any sort of rhythm and cohesion.  I know others will say preseason is about fitness, conditioning, patterns, etc, but we must improve.

Beyond that, we have to start playing the ball faster and figure out how to get some attacking penetration into the side.  Early days and preseason, but not impressive at all.

Agreed , also we've got Arse next and I don't want to lose to those fekkers😀

27 minutes ago, hawkster said:

Agreed , also we've got Arse next and I don't want to lose to those fekkers😀

If they beat us in the Pre-season, but we spank them in the league. 

Then I have no problem with that. 

Pre-season is to get some fitness in. Team building, seeing who fits where and who doesn't. 

Half of the players playing in pre-season will probably be playing less thant 10 games for Chelsea througout the year. 

If you ever want to experiment, now is the time. 

In the league or cups,... there we need to grab them by the throat. 

 

 

I’ll probably get chewed for this but I’m having massive doubts about him going in to the new season.

 

I believe a lot of it comes down to whether or not he has the ability to make our attack more effective; Hopefully we can make 1 or 2 additions to the forward line this summer and ship off some deadwood because I genuinely don’t think Tuchel has the ability to get the best out of players. I think he’s a coach that flourishes when he had a team that wants to play under him and is on board with his coaching style. There is a large percentage of the current crop of players, to an extent, who need a kick up the arse but TT isn’t that type of manage; ie. A Ferguson.

 

It’s all well and good signing these defensive units but the reality of it is, we have zero ability to pass through the lines, our pace of football has been tediously slow and our forwards (for a f**king long time) just magically forget how to put the ball in the net. Something has to change. We can not rely on defenders to win matches for us next season, not with United and Spurs inevitably making a resurgence. I hate to say it, even Arsenal. I think they will be a very dangerous unit with their additions; mainly Jesus, who IMO (counter to some banter I may have put on his thread) has the potential to be a top, top class forward.

If TT doesn’t give Borja a god run/ trial when he’s fit again or invests in a decent striker, we are f**ked. How we finished 3rd was a miracle. Thanks only to those around us who collapsed, who have now invested and will be better sides this season.

If we keep playing that lethargic passing around sh*t we definitely won’t finish top 4.

Honestly how may games did you really enjoy last year?

7 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

If TT doesn’t give Borja a god run/ trial when he’s fit again or invests in a decent striker, we are f**ked. How we finished 3rd was a miracle. Thanks only to those around us who collapsed, who have now invested and will be better sides this season.

If we keep playing that lethargic passing around sh*t we definitely won’t finish top 4.

Honestly how may games did you really enjoy last year?

Last season we had a massive injury crisis, an unprecedented ownership crisis while having to juggle 5 tournaments at a point the two teams behind us had 3 between them and we still made it.

And it was nothing to do with other rivals collapsing, 74 points almost always makes it and we always had decent room for error hence securing it with two games to spare and only needing a point from the final two home games for 3rd.

I'll happily admit the title is a tall order but the sweeping statements about top four is getting silly, we literally had a perfect storm of circumstances to kick us out last season and made it.

36 minutes ago, Argo said:

Last season we had a massive injury crisis, an unprecedented ownership crisis while having to juggle 5 tournaments at a point the two teams behind us had 3 between them and we still made it.

And it was nothing to do with other rivals collapsing, 74 points almost always makes it and we always had decent room for error hence securing it with two games to spare and only needing a point from the final two home games for 3rd.

I'll happily admit the title is a tall order but the sweeping statements about top four is getting silly, we literally had a perfect storm of circumstances to kick us out last season and made it.

Argo your content on here is superb but today I disagree.

you’ve emphasised everything wrong with the current side; complete reliance on the full backs to provide for the shambolic presence of our forwards; bar Mason Mount who has put shifts in.

Liverpool lost Van Dijk and STILL finished ahead of Chelsea in a season where they also had countless injuries to deal with; injuries can’t be used as an excuse for some of the absolutely horrendous displays we had last year.

 

im not saying it is Tuchel, it is more the players if anything; he, however, has to get it right this year and has to try and bring in some new talent that can make us operate with a back four. I genuinely think Koulibaly and potentially Kounde coming in will allow us to go back to a back 4; then it’s on Tuchel to start getting the football moving FORWARD.

1 hour ago, thebluekid said:

There is a large percentage of the current crop of players, to an extent, who need a kick up the arse but TT isn’t that type of manage; ie. A Ferguson.

I think he is.

But with the situation being as it was when the new owners took over they simply had to address the defense first. That's obviously a work in progress still and Sterling should be a great addition up front. But Tuchel reportedly wants two new attackers in addition to Sterling as well as two more defenders among other things.

I think Tuchel would shift all of CHO, Werner, Ziyech, Pulisic if he could. Lukaku is already out the door but if the old regime had stayed he would have never left so hopefully the beforementioned can be shifted one way or another as well.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kev56 said:

 Thanks only to those around us who collapsed.

We said this when we finished 3rd under Sarri, 4th under Lamps, 4th under Tuchel and 3rd under Tuchel. Why is the focus on teams around us collapsing? Bottom line is we put the points on the board in all 4 of those seasons and those around us didn't. As @Argosaid above we secured top 4 with games to spare this season and was never any lower than third from the first day of the season.

Those of you that are implying that Tuchel should go, who is your alternative? Realistically speaking we are going to finish third at best again this season. I've said it on here so many times but literally any other manager that could feasibly come in if Tuchel were to go, would take us further away from the top 2 rather than closer. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Last season we had a massive injury crisis, an unprecedented ownership crisis while having to juggle 5 tournaments at a point the two teams behind us had 3 between them and we still made it.

And it was nothing to do with other rivals collapsing, 74 points almost always makes it and we always had decent room for error hence securing it with two games to spare and only needing a point from the final two home games for 3rd.

I'll happily admit the title is a tall order but the sweeping statements about top four is getting silly, we literally had a perfect storm of circumstances to kick us out last season and made it.

I agree about last season, considering the circumstances. But I suspect top 4 will be much more competitive this season. Looking beyond City and Liverpool, the other rivals have strengthened significantly this summer. I am not sure that Newcastle have invested enough to be included in the top 4 battle yet but they will likely close the gap too. I think our summer acquisitions, plus the return of key loanees like Gallagher, should improve the squad, once all are settled. But if we keep playing the same system I am not convinced that we see a significant increase in our goal return and that concerns me. We need a natural goal scorer in the central role, and I don't think Kai will be the answer consistently enough. I am hoping Broja will stay and prove his worth, but I think we will need another reliable source of goals.

 

44 minutes ago, thebluekid said:

Argo your content on here is superb but today I disagree.

you’ve emphasised everything wrong with the current side; complete reliance on the full backs to provide for the shambolic presence of our forwards; bar Mason Mount who has put shifts in.

Liverpool lost Van Dijk and STILL finished ahead of Chelsea in a season where they also had countless injuries to deal with; injuries can’t be used as an excuse for some of the absolutely horrendous displays we had last year.

 

im not saying it is Tuchel, it is more the players if anything; he, however, has to get it right this year and has to try and bring in some new talent that can make us operate with a back four. I genuinely think Koulibaly and potentially Kounde coming in will allow us to go back to a back 4; then it’s on Tuchel to start getting the football moving FORWARD.

Liverpool actually strengthen my argument as oppose to weaken it. A similar injury crisis to us and they quickly dive down from a late 90s point team to a top four challenger who needed a goal from their keeper to make it (and unlike with us Klopp ditched the cup competitions to ease the burden whereas we by comparison had 5 tournaments to juggle and went hell for leather at them all).

I get there's room for improvement in many areas and for that reason I think it may see off a title win (which is a shame as i feel Liverpool and City will regress in the short term atleast trying to shoehorn out and out number 9s into their system).

7 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I agree about last season, considering the circumstances. But I suspect top 4 will be much more competitive this season. Looking beyond City and Liverpool, the other rivals have strengthened significantly this summer. I am not sure that Newcastle have invested enough to be included in the top 4 battle yet but they will likely close the gap too. I think our summer acquisitions, plus the return of key loanees like Gallagher, should improve the squad, once all are settled. But if we keep playing the same system I am not convinced that we see a significant increase in our goal return and that concerns me. We need a natural goal scorer in the central role, and I don't think Kai will be the answer consistently enough. I am hoping Broja will stay and prove his worth, but I think we will need another reliable source of goals.

 

Fair enough but at the same time I do feel the close gap between us and the North London duo is a little artificial (and I don't feel either have signed players that get into our very best Xl).

We had an injury crisis and an unprecented ownership crisis and 5 tournaments to juggle while Arsenal were out of everything with just the league to focus on by the end of January and Tottenham not much later.

If we do see a resugance from the sides that finished just below us last season and lose our place in the top 4 I wonder how the new owners will react compared to how we know Roman would do.

12 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

If we do see a resugance from the sides that finished just below us last season and lose our place in the top 4 I wonder how the new owners will react compared to how we know Roman would do.

Context. 

Is the football not improving despite the injection of quality? If no, answer is simple. 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

If we do see a resugance from the sides that finished just below us last season and lose our place in the top 4 I wonder how the new owners will react compared to how we know Roman would do.

Or the sides that finished below us stagnated or the ones above us encountered problems that affects their results? 

Nunez has been poor for Pool, Haaland has yet to play in the PL. We don't even know what our final squad is.. 

It's way too early to be shi*ting our pants

Honestly, the amount of negativity today is uncalled for. 

Did people forget City had a lousy start last season? That Chelsea was at one point the top of the league before Chilwell got injured and our supposed best striker snaked on us? Last season Chelsea FC even got involved in a govt action due to a war that wasn't even associated with anyone from the club at a time where we could have used the money to buy a decent LB/LWB cover? Liverpool was storming to the title until they went off the boil for a few games and lost the title to City. They barely won the two cups over us. Arse and Spuds were supposedly going to pip us to 3rd then both bottled it at crucial times. 

The season is long, difficult and anything can happen. The key to winning the Prem is by grinding out results during the difficult moments because every PL title winner has had moments where their attacking flair dimmed for a bit and had to ground out 1-0's. Our 2 highest points tally were when we played our most defensive football throughout the season, heck, even our two CL wins were won on our most defensive display ever. 

Just chill out and enjoy the moments where youth is played. We get to be relaxed about results in preseason as most players in preseason are about 70~80% match sharp and match fit anyway. 

I'm not saying we'll win the title but lay off the negativity for a bit. 

37 minutes ago, Deino said:

Or the sides that finished below us stagnated or the ones above us encountered problems that affects their results? 

Nunez has been poor for Pool, Haaland has yet to play in the PL. We don't even know what our final squad is.. 

It's way too early to be shi*ting our pants

Who is "sh*ting their pants"?

I just put forward the question of a simple if. If we missed out on top 4, which we have no divine right to make,  what would the new board do with TT. Cause we know the old one would sack him.

I go in to the season hopeful that with Koulibaly and Kounde to rebuild his defence TT will make the team "no one wants to play against" but also accepting we may end up being boring, waste chances and slide down the table.

TT is very much getting his signings so now we will see just how good a manager he is.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Who is "sh*ting their pants"?

I just put forward the question of a simple if. If we missed out on top 4, which we have no divine right to make,  what would the new board do with TT. Cause we know the old one would sack him.

I go in to the season hopeful that with Koulibaly and Kounde to rebuild his defence TT will make the team "no one wants to play against" but also accepting we may end up being boring, waste chances and slide down the table.

TT is very much getting his signings so now we will see just how good a manager he is.

I never said it was you but it's pretty clear some people are already negative about the season and assuming we'll be crap before anything happened.