4 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

They were motivated and were fighting, most of them at least, but he got the tactics badly wrong today. It was set up to fail.

Not most of them for me. Dave, Silva, Mount (though he was cr@p) and Broja yes, the rest were swaning about without a care in the world.

I do think Tuchel is a bit dammed either way to be honest. We lose to Leeds and says we were the better team, and gets crucified for it and that he’s not being honest. We lose tonight and basically says we were poor and weak, and he gets crucified and a lot of people now saying “well it’s your job for them not to be poor and weak”. So no matter what he says after a loss he’s going to upset some people on here. 

I’ve got no issue with a manager identifying that we were second best, it’s how they try to fix it in the next games which counts. 

He got it wrong tonight tactically and selection wise. There’s no doubt about that. But there are some on here that are so desperate for him to fail that they will beat him with whatever stick they can. 

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by drjonesy1994

2 minutes ago, coco said:

Bring on the next manager, but who and how long do we give the new gaffer ? till Christmas ? what about if were in the bottom 3 by Halloween ? sack him as well ? 

Tbh i don't see many managers wanting the job. Its like giving a kid a bunch of pencils and blank sheet of paper, and expecting a Rembrandt on page 1.

 

This is it, this culture of wanting everyone now and if it’s not going the way you want just rip and replace gets you so far. Man City stuck with pep, Liverpool stuck with Kloop, even Arsenal stuck with Arteta and we want to sack and CL winning manager because we in a rough period.

People seem to forget we were sanctioned and heavily restricted until late June.

the revolving door of managers has to stop because we will run out of managers.

Rafa is available?

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Yes, because I would rather see Frank do that than I sacked. 

I would very much like a long term manager, bit I don't believe TT is that manager. Our football is terrible Coco, so terrible. How can you defend it and our meek surrender today and at Leeds?

Who's defending it ?

Our football was terrible tonight, terrible last week, thats twice, TWO times, transfer window is still open, dam it's still bloody August, and yet you believe that two crap performances = SACK.

If Tuchel is stubborn, then their is nothing like a few kicks up the arse to wake you up, it might take 2 or 3 or 4 kicks, but he'll get there.

Sign Gordon or whoever he wants, Aubameyang fine get him Aubameyang if possible. I said the same thing for Lampard for the January window, he wants Rice give him Rice let's go.

But afterwards if we don't get better, Tommy goes to the chopping block and you don't need to be Roman to understand that.

10 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Yes, because I would rather see Frank do that than I sacked. 

I would very much like a long term manager, bit I don't believe TT is that manager. Our football is terrible Coco, so terrible. How can you defend it and our meek surrender today and at Leeds?

But what manager isn't having the team play terrible football when things are going wrong? From what I have seen in this game, fans will only accept a brand of football when they are winning. You can play the most attacking football in the world, but if you're not getting the results, nobody will care how pretty it is.

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by Scott Harris

Every time we lose I keep hearing we got the tactics wrong we got team selection wrong blah blah blah.

These are the same people who called for back 4 which he played and it worked up to a point again had we taken our early chances. 
 

You don’t just switch formations and expect it to work off the bat if you want back 4 there will be growing pains with it.

we need to just toughen up the midfield we need a true DM in my opinion someone like Ndidi just to break up play protect the back 4 but can also move the ball forward.

we are too vulnerable in the middle players leaving massive spaces.

TT can fix it might just mean we go back the ultra defensive framework and make sure we don’t lose and build from there.

Also the lost  of a sh*t starter like Rudi is bigger that we expected, I believe if we still had him we would not be performing this badly.

Rudi is a massive miss for his personality!!!

 

10 minutes ago, coco said:

Bring on the next manager, but who and how long do we give the new gaffer ? till Christmas ? what about if were in the bottom 3 by Halloween ? sack him as well ? 

Tbh i don't see many managers wanting the job. Its like giving a kid a bunch of pencils and blank sheet of paper, and expecting a Rembrandt on page 1.

 

It's always been one of the best jobs in football.  Sign on, 2 years later get sacked, bank millions in severance and move on to the next job reputation intact.

With a couple of exceptions most managerial jobs in the epl are 2-3 years now, so i suspect he's in the fun zone now. In fact he may get a pass for a while simply due to the new ownership.

But let's make no mistake our gearing is on the basis of return on investment.  Writing off the league campaign in 4 weeks is pretty serious and puts all your eggs in one basket. If CL group qualification starts to look in doubt I can definitely see the old spanish archer coming into play, old El-Bow

Just now, WhiteWall said:

It's always been one of the best jobs in football.  Sign on, 2 years later get sacked, bank millions in severance and move on to the next job reputation intact.

With a couple of exceptions most managerial jobs in the epl are 2-3 years now, so i suspect he's in the fun zone now. In fact he may get a pass for a while simply due to the new ownership.

But let's make no mistake our gearing is on the basis of return on investment.  Writing off the league campaign in 4 weeks is pretty serious and puts all your eggs in one basket. If CL group qualification starts to look in doubt I can definitely see the old spanish archer coming into play, old El-Bow

That‘s assuming elite coaches are mostly after money - I‘d wager they are all a bunch of more or less narcissistics that want to be on top of the best clmpetition available. And that mostly works best if you get some time to assemble a fitting squad.

 

Don‘t think Boehly really considered a title challenge feasable this season. And even if he‘d bought 13 new elite players: the time it needs to make such a build up working is already lost agains City.

But I agree that a top four finish is mandatory - although I don‘t get my panties in a twist already about that after five games played with an unfinished squad as it stands. 
 

 

21 minutes ago, coco said:

Who's defending it ?

Our football was terrible tonight, terrible last week, thats twice, TWO times, transfer window is still open, dam it's still bloody August, and yet you believe that two crap performances = SACK.

Is also the 4 wins in 15 league games too mate. That is pretty shocking.

5 minutes ago, weetee said:

That‘s assuming elite coaches are mostly after money - I‘d wager they are all a bunch of more or less narcissistics that want to be on top of the best clmpetition available. And that mostly works best if you get some time to assemble a fitting squad.

 

Don‘t think Boehly really considered a title challenge feasable this season. And even if he‘d bought 13 new elite players: the time it needs to make such a build up working is already lost agains City.

But I agree that a top four finish is mandatory - although I don‘t get my panties in a twist already about that after five games played with an unfinished squad as it stands. 
 

 

Top 4 is the concern for me. I did not expect nor think we would be ready to challange City this season, or next.

18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Sign Gordon or whoever he wants, Aubameyang fine get him Aubameyang if possible. I said the same thing for Lampard for the January window, he wants Rice give him Rice let's go.

But afterwards if we don't get better, Tommy goes to the chopping block and you don't need to be Roman to understand that.

For me, I say give him till the WC. 

26 minutes ago, Mod said:

Rafa is available?

Can he play on the right wing?

48 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Tuchel f**ked up tonight. The players deserve some of the blame, but in his desperation to move away from the back 3, he's taken his eyes off the players available to him.

Can anybody here honestly say it is ever a good idea to play a back 4 with 3 over 30's? One of them a RB who can't play RB anymore because his legs have gone and another one that just looks lazy when defending. Then to protect that back 4, you have Jorginho, the last player in the world you want protecting the defence and Loftus-Cheek, a player who takes an age to make a decision on anything. No way was that team equiped to move to a back 4 formation today. Without James at RB, another younger CB (Fofana) and a DM with more physical attributes, we cannot touch the back 4 formation.

Agree with all that Scott. 

19 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Is also the 4 wins in 15 league games too mate. That is pretty shocking.

Not as shocking as winning the Champions League in 15 weeks.

 

19 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Can he play on the right wing?

Oh I would love to see that. @Valerie imagine that and the flash Gordon music going. Lmao.

I honestly don't care anymore but I'm prepared to wait 3 or 5 years for us to be title challengers again. As long as the board back the manager and the manager knows what he is doing and is 100% committed then I am prepared to wait. I don't want us to become a mid table side through our own doing. It's not acceptable. We are a big club and should be winning a title every decade.

1 minute ago, coco said:

Not as shocking as winning the Champions League in 15 weeks.

 

I have a ton of respect for you and your opinions Coco. You are level headed stand up guy. I hope you are right on this and I end up with a good helping of humble pie come the end of the season, I truly do. I don't want to be right.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

Tuchel f**ked up tonight. The players deserve some of the blame, but in his desperation to move away from the back 3, he's taken his eyes off the players available to him.

Can anybody here honestly say it is ever a good idea to play a back 4 with 3 over 30's? One of them a RB who can't play RB anymore because his legs have gone and another one that just looks lazy when defending. Then to protect that back 4, you have Jorginho, the last player in the world you want protecting the defence and Loftus-Cheek, a player who takes an age to make a decision on anything. No way was that team equiped to move to a back 4 formation today. Without James at RB, another younger CB (Fofana) and a DM with more physical attributes, we cannot touch the back 4 formation.

Yes. If we want to move into a back 4, we need to revamp the midfield or else we shouldn't try. We are running Silva into the ground 

5 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I have a ton of respect for you and your opinions Coco. You are level headed stand up guy. I hope you are right on this and I end up with a good helping of humble pie come the end of the season, I truly do. I don't want to be right.

I don't think its fair to use last seasons later poor form into this season, because of all that's happened last season, Russia, Roman, Chelsea not allowed to do business, lose key players due to the mess, in comes Todd with new vision, big cheque book, a new start, were 4 games in to that new start, played spuds off the park, then two terrible games where we looked a complete shambles, which it's fair to judge TT and perfectly acceptable to question tactics or whatever. but we would be a big dumbass of a club if got rid of him now. He must get at least all of this season, evaluate him again in May, that seems decent and fair to me. I understand fans getting pissed off with the crap we've been producing, but i bet you Tuchel is way more pissed of than we are, i expect him to make serious changes over the coming weeks. Lets wait and see hey ? 

There are a few of here who I have found to be very level headed, not reactionary and well thought out. I admit I am not so a fair amount of the time so I am genuinely interested in whether they think TT should be sacked, and what he should achieve this season not to be sacked.

@Mod @Valerie @CaitlinCFC @Munkworth @Scott Harris @just may I ask your opinions on this?

1 minute ago, coco said:

I don't think its fair to use last seasons later poor form into this season, because of all that's happened last season, Russia, Roman, Chelsea not allowed to do business, lose key players due to the mess, in comes Todd with new vision, big cheque book, a new start, were 4 games in to that new start, played spuds off the park, then two terrible games where we looked a complete shambles, which it's fair to judge TT and perfectly acceptable to question tactics or whatever. but we would be a big dumbass of a club if got rid of him now. He must get at least all of this season, evaluate him again in May, that seems decent and fair to me. I understand fans getting pissed off with the crap we've been producing, but i bet you Tuchel is way more pissed of than we are, i expect him to make serious changes over the coming weeks. Lets wait and see hey ? 

Sure thing, I would very much like to be wrong. Just a gut feeling on this. 

That Winter World Cup seems like it will be a huge issue to a lot of sides, us included. 

2 minutes ago, coco said:

I don't think its fair to use last seasons later poor form into this season, because of all that's happened last season, Russia, Roman, Chelsea not allowed to do business, lose key players due to the mess, in comes Todd with new vision, big cheque book, a new start, were 4 games in to that new start, played spuds off the park, then two terrible games where we looked a complete shambles, which it's fair to judge TT and perfectly acceptable to question tactics or whatever. but we would be a big dumbass of a club if got rid of him now. He must get at least all of this season, evaluate him again in May, that seems decent and fair to me. I understand fans getting pissed off with the crap we've been producing, but i bet you Tuchel is way more pissed of than we are, i expect him to make serious changes over the coming weeks. Lets wait and see hey ? 

I'd very much like to see the finalized squad now that the transfer window is almost over. 

I give him maybe the next 5 games to see where we're at. If by game 11~15, we're not in the top 6, he needs to be sacked for whoever top coach is available. Right now it's 2W 1D 2L when it really should have been 4W 1D.