1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Individual quality is what usually wins you games.

De Bruyne & Haaland does it all the time for City, Salah & Diaz for Liverpool, Kane & Son for Tottenham and so on.

Even on paper our attack is pathetic compared to any of our rivals. We have no chance of competing with what we have.

And yes, perhaps one could say Boehly & Tuchel should have had other priorities then. But they did also inherit a complete mess in defence and they were quite simply forced to address that first and now time is running out for us. But everyone knew we wouldn't compete with this attack of ours.

I disagree to an extent. Of course, quality players help, but our players are not sh*t. They are better than leeds. They are better then southampton etc....

City and their system is set up to move defenses about. Their players are all over the place, creating space, pulling people out of position, making angles. That is the team, coached to play that way with the intent on creating space and therefore goalscoring situations. We dont have that.

Liverpool and their system is set up to batter opponents into submission. They swarm forward at pace, moving the ball quickly, again, designed to pull players out of position. This is the way their manager has coached them to play.

Spurs under Conte are set up to be a great counter attacking team. They have a system based around speedy transitions, all coached by conte, as a way of creating overloads and goalscoring oppertunities.

Us on the other hand do what? Sit back, play slowly, knock it around the CBs for 5 mins, tap it forward to jorgi, who taps it back to azpi, knocks it wide to 1 wing back, who passes back to the CB, who then knocks it to jorgi who passes out to the other wingback....then we inch our way forward to the edge of the 18 yard box and find 11 players sitting back, because our slow, uninspiring play has allowed them to sit back.  Where are our overloads? where is the movement? where is the coaching to get the players playing football that scares peoples.

Hell....even IF what you say is true and we dont have quality, why is the manager not coaching them to " have a go" ?

The system is broken.

Thomas Tuchel:

"Soft, soft, soft defending. There is no need to give shots away. Just toughen up as a team and show a different mentality."

"Obviously we’re not tough enough at the moment to win these matches away. One set-piece again. One sloppy defending again. Then we are off balance. We were not tough enough as a team to react or push it over the line for us."

1 minute ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Considering we are still playing "Sarriball" five seasons after he left and not winning trophies I'm more frustrated we hired him in the first place. He's responsible for completely changing the identity of the club and we've looked flat since that era. 

Sarri ball isn't just possession football and Sarri never fully got us there in his 10 months with us. It's more than that and we've not come close to playing it since he left. Ironically Sarri ball is ideal for a player like Werner. It rewards forward runs and creates space. 

1 minute ago, Drogba1 said:

Whilst I am firmly Tuchel in, one thing that is worrying is the amount of defenders we're signing, we're clearly buliding for a 3 CB system. If Tuchel does go and the new manager wants a different system, what then?

If it's Jose, he'll want eleven defenders so no worries.

7 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Those 3, for sure no. But they also aren't as bad as their current output would suggest. They have just gone backwards in this system. 

They've not though have they.

Pulisic has literally just had 2 of the best 3 seasons of his career under Tuchel, he's been better under Tuchel than he was at Dortmund.   He really is just that bad he's not good enough for premier league level.

Neither Ziyech or Havertz have shown anything to suggest they're good enough for PL level either and were both poor under Lampard.

It's not like Tuchel signed a bunch of premier league superstars that have regressed under him.

The one attacking premier league superstar we've signed under Tuchel is comfortably outperforming the rest of our attaxk.  Has 3 goals and 1 assist our last 3 games while none of our other attacks have any.

That suggests quality attacking players can perform quite well under Tuchel and in the system.  On the other hand we have dross like Pulisic that have failed under every manager and every system they've played under in 2 different leagues.

Between the two of them It's pretty clear the one with the record of success isn't where we should be pointing the finger first.

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

Comes down to the manager, worst part is when your losing at half time and you expect some action in the subs, that Tuchel would have got into the players and they come out looking for the next goal. All I see is a team all over the place who then get dominated and have no fight, what the hell is happening at half time? The set pieces are awful. Yes the players are underperforming and we lack quality in the final third but better managed teams do more with less quality players. We barely create a chance and it's boring.

4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Sarri ball isn't just possession football and Sarri never fully got us there in his 10 months with us. It's more than that and we've not come close to playing it since he left. Ironically Sarri ball is ideal for a player like Werner. It rewards forward runs and creates space. 

Maybe he didn't manage to reach the full extent of Sarriball but whatever it was he was playing has been inherited by all the managers that followed where we basically just keep passing the ball around and hope for someone or something to happen. A few players are able to make magic happen from that but when they are injured or out of form the whole attack crumbles.

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by Frankie8Lampard

We should throw the kitchen sink at Arteta.

Either him, or Mark Pulisic.

3 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Thomas Tuchel:

"Soft, soft, soft defending. There is no need to give shots away. Just toughen up as a team and show a different mentality."

"Obviously we’re not tough enough at the moment to win these matches away. One set-piece again. One sloppy defending again. Then we are off balance. We were not tough enough as a team to react or push it over the line for us."

That makes me angry.

HE needs to look at HIMSELF. He is the one choosing the players, allowing them to get a game time despite a lack of "toughness". And blaming it on set pieces is smoke and mirrors....we lost because we hardly had a shot on goal or creating any chances in the entire second half.

 

7 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Thomas Tuchel:

"Soft, soft, soft defending. There is no need to give shots away. Just toughen up as a team and show a different mentality."

"Obviously we’re not tough enough at the moment to win these matches away. One set-piece again. One sloppy defending again. Then we are off balance. We were not tough enough as a team to react or push it over the line for us."

He needs to take accountability for that considering he keeps playing players out of form. What happened to the Tuchel that wasn't afraid to drop people when he first came?

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by Frankie8Lampard

1 minute ago, Amputechture said:

We should throw the kitchen sink at Arteta.

Either him, or Mark Pulisic.

I think we should throw Mark Pulisic, and his son, at Arteta.....

And yet we can get up for it against Spurs or in one off games against the top teams. 

As angry as I am with tonight's performance, I'd still stick with Tuchel, I think he gets more time under Boehly than he would under Roman. That being said, he needs to Buck his ideas up because this is nowhere near good enough, not just individuals, but the tactics. It looked like none of these players had played with each other before.

5 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

He needs to take accountability for that considering he keeps playing players out of form. What happened to the Tuchel that wasn't afraid to drop people when he first came?

He had good players on the bench. It's very easy to change a game by bringing on a Giroud for a more direct approach or even a Werner for some pace.

But how can Tuchel drop Mount, Havertz or Mendy when the alternatives are Pulisic, Ziyech and Kepa?

Pulisic in particular has come on all 5 games this season, played over 110 minutes.

And the only decision he's gave Boehly and Tuchel is whether they should release him and bring Barkley back.

As Tuchel said the players on the bench aren't giving him any selection headaches or showing anything to suggest they should he starting.

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

I still am not throwing him to the lions, well not yet, but the way we set up and transition, you get a glimpse we can play glorious footie, but not consistently enough during a game, he does seem to not know whether a 5 or 4 is best, who this strongest  lineup is, i think we alll called for Broja maybe to be given a run instead of Havertz, starting Ziyech, Jorgi as the DM.
  If we bin him off, we are hoping that the new man can turn us around, and get this incredibly expensive team firing as befits our status, as a one of the big boys, i'm at a loss to not know why TT cant do it...

I think it’s genuinely an absolute travesty that he is the one who has been granted an unlimited chequebook. It’s becoming more and more evident now at the severe cracks in his managerial abilities; he has blatantly shown that he has favourites which is a big no-no for any top, top coach. Give him until the end of September… After that it is time to go. Fortunately the players he has bought will be able to fit in to another manager’s plans. 
 

Potter is a fantastic shout but will he do a David Moyes akin to his United spell?

Does he have the pull with players? Zidane is on the market. I’m not being funny but those of you who are batting eyelids at those batting eyelids at Tuchel need to appreciate this isn’t the same Chelsea you grew up watching pre 1990. This is an elite footballing team that has spent a billion pounds on players to end up scrapping in the league for what? 6-7 years? Something isn’t right.

12 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

He had good players on the bench.

How can Tuchel drop Mount, Havertz or Mendy when the alternatives are Pulisic, Ziyech and Kepa?

Pulisic and Ziyech I can understand but Kepa hasn't done anything wrong to warrant not getting a start. IRRC his last Chelsea games were good ones while Mendy was off at AFCON. Havertz and Mount can also be replaced by Gilmore and Broja at least until the forward and winger we're supposed to sign comes in. SUrely the two of them can't play as bad as Mount and Havertz are at the moment? Havertz and Mount are palying bad because they feel like they are untouchable. When tuchel first came he made Mount work for that starting 11 position and it resulted in him putting out some amazing performances.

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by Frankie8Lampard

It is really odd seeing Mount on bad form. It’s not like him.

34 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Sterling is already on three goals and one assist and that's with playing beside Havertz & Mount who's been completely useless all season.

His quality is shining through and there is absolutely nothing to suggest any other top players quality wouldn't. "Just" another player that could actually beat and outpace a man and pick a good pass would transform us offensively. Tuchel have even said so himself that he's desperate for someone like that and I fully agree with him.

Mount and Havertz are completely predictable and incredible easy to play against for any team. Not good dribblers, not good passers and not even good finishers. 

So why does he keep f**king playing them then? Look I appreciate you’re trying your best to calm everyone down and you’re probably sat there ‘tutting’ at all the ‘knee jerk’ reactions, but it’s been a f**king shambles rolling from the end of last season to now. He has completely ALIENATED players in his formations. No wonder why Puli, Ziyech, CHO etc. have downed tools. If you’re a f**king winger who’s never been on a defensive duty in all the years you’ve played the game and your coach puts you at wing back to try squeeze you in, you’d be fuming… Especially considering those that start ahead of you are hardly knocking doors down. Buck starts with the manager.

What really annoyed me about tonight was the lack of desire or willingness to get back into the game in the second half. We should have peppered them from minute one of the second half but instead they won fairly comfortably. 

Tuchel has to take some of the blame, for me there’s no doubt about that. But my god are we crying out for a creative midfielder. We can sign Aubameyang or whoever and it won’t make any difference if we play the same slow football that allows teams to get back into shape and we don’t get the ball forward quickly. If we continue to play a 4-3-3 I would honestly try Mount in the midfield 3 rather than the front 3, because I think he can help to unlock defences and help us get in behind. 

I like Jorginho and think he has been a good player for us over the years - but his position is one I’d have liked us to upgrade on over the summer. I just don’t think he is mobile enough to play at the base of midfield, nor does he offer anything to the team offensively, what exactly is his role at the moment? 

I don’t for one minute believe that Tuchel is wanting the players to play this slow, non progressive football. But we need a midfielder who can get on the ball and pick a pass early. Sometimes pinning a defence back with passes is literally all you need to create half a chance. 

 

9 minutes ago, thebluekid said:

I think it’s genuinely an absolute travesty that he is the one who has been granted an unlimited chequebook. It’s becoming more and more evident now at the severe cracks in his managerial abilities; he has blatantly shown that he has favourites which is a big no-no for any top, top coach. Give him until the end of September… After that it is time to go. Fortunately the players he has bought will be able to fit in to another manager’s plans. 
 

Potter is a fantastic shout but will he do a David Moyes akin to his United spell?

Does he have the pull with players? Zidane is on the market. I’m not being funny but those of you who are batting eyelids at those batting eyelids at Tuchel need to appreciate this isn’t the same Chelsea you grew up watching pre 1990. This is an elite footballing team that has spent a billion pounds on players to end up scrapping in the league for what? 6-7 years? Something isn’t right.

Love Tuchel, absolutely do.

But i have to agree with the favourites part. He places too much emphasis on experience, even now he keeps talking about only 2 experienced midfielders. The forward line isnt working one bit, but the same three players continue to start every game. What do the other players need to do esp like Broja, when bar sterling the other two have been abysmal, yet he can barely get any minutes unless we are in complete desperation.

27 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Considering we are still playing "Sarriball" five seasons after he left and not winning trophies I'm more frustrated we hired him in the first place. He's responsible for completely changing the identity of the club and we've looked flat since that era. 

Wait a minute hahahahahahaha, you’re blaming Sarri for how f**king pants we’ve been for a while now? That’s like me blaming my ex Mrs for me still not knowing my way around a fanny.

Just now, thebluekid said:

Wait a minute hahahahahahaha, you’re blaming Sarri for how f**king pants we’ve been for a while now? That’s like me blaming my ex Mrs for me still not knowing my way around a fanny.

Not blaming Sarri just stating that we haven't been much impressive since we changed to a possession based team which started with him. The whole reason Sarri was hired was to overhaul the club's identity into a possession based team. Since then we haven't mounted any serious title challenge.

Tuchel need to stop with this back 4 nonsense. Stick with back 5 until you sign 2 midfielder who can actually defend then you can do whatever you want. 

 

Great job today TT, great job...👏👏👏