15 minutes ago, Jezz said:

Backing him at this stage, but he's on notice.

I want to see how he goes with our new summer signings for a period of time before making a clearer assessment on how he's performing.

We've been too inconsistent since the Brentford (4-1) loss last season, so he needs to step it up now. At this stage, we look destined to play Europa League football next season which isn't good enough for the calibre of this club.

This. 

One point though: in my opinion it's not about the calibre of the club that we expect to be playing in the CL and not the Europa League (although I would support us competing in the Conference League, we don't have that trophy yet  ), it's the huge amount of money we've spent on players who can reasonably be expected to be top players. Chelsea have no god given right to anything, but once you assemble players worth (and earning) eye-watering amounts of money, you'd better put your football where your money is. 

I really think he should change Captain, Dave is excellent, but I’m not sure he’ll get the minutes now, especially if Reece comes straight back in, who’d get the band, not sure, someone with some bottle, I think Kova could do well, or Thiago, someone who is gonna lead by example.

I say the same I said when I was asked about Lampard. Back him fully. Give him whatever possible player he wants. All in and no regrets, if it doesn't work later on then it will be very clear that he failed but at least he'll have the chance to make out of this squad what he wanted.

I think some of his decisions are odd at present , Dave's legs have gone so he gets targeted like last night why play him?

Last night in my humble opinion he picked too many soft players and we got bullied .

Don't sack him , just hope he can relax some of his rigid thinking .

 

Sack him and start over again FFS!!! Why because we are having the difficult period sh*te this happens when you have such upheaval at a club. 
No premiership clubs has gone through what we have and I doubt any will for a long time.

when we get a new manager in and he starts having a difficult time then what ? We sack him straight away too? 

7 minutes ago, Valerie said:

This. 

One point though: in my opinion it's not about the calibre of the club that we expect to be playing in the CL and not the Europa League (although I would support us competing in the Conference League, we don't have that trophy yet  ), it's the huge amount of money we've spent on players who can reasonably be expected to be top players. Chelsea have no god given right to anything, but once you assemble players worth (and earning) eye-watering amounts of money, you'd better put your football where your money is. 

You're right @Valerie.

My wording was clumsy. Considering the heavy investment, you would reasonably expect us to be top 4 and qualifying for a CL spot.

9 hours ago, coco said:

Who's defending it ?

Our football was terrible tonight, terrible last week, thats twice, TWO times, transfer window is still open, dam it's still bloody August, and yet you believe that two crap performances = SACK.

I wish people would stop saying this is based on 2 games, or 5 games, or this season....it isnt, its based on the regression we have seen over the past 12 months and the fact Tuchel wont or cant dont anything about it. We have won 4 out of the last 15 games, we havent won a game from behind this year, we are now nowhere near fighting for a title, we are a top 6 team at best hoping for a cup run. By every metric Tuchel is failing, he isnt new to the club, he has had plenty of time and opportunity to fix things. 

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by dkw

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I wish people would stop saying this is based on 2 games, or 5 games, or this season....it isnt, its based on the regression we have seen over the past 12 months and the fact Tuchel wont or cant dont anything about it. We have won 4 out of the last 15 games, we havent won a game from behind this year, we are now nowhere near fighting for a title, we are a top 6 team at best hoping for a cup run. By every metric Tuchel is failing, he isnt new to the club, he has had plenty of time and opportunity to fix things. 

Can see both sides of this @dkw and @coco. I think we've seen regression since winter last season but we've also had more than a few headwinds. I don't underestimate the issues that ownership and all the rest caused last season. 

Im happy to give him some time and some signings to address it all, if only because there aren't a lot of other options and we're very reliant on a small group of quality players, so it would be good to broaden that out.

That said, long term I think Tuchel could be one of those managers who is so intense that after a time people stop responding. He may well have a natural end date.

1 minute ago, Spiller86 said:

Can see both sides of this @dkw and @coco. I think we've seen regression since winter last season but we've also had more than a few headwinds. I don't underestimate the issues that ownership and all the rest caused last season. 

Im happy to give him some time and some signings to address it all, if only because there aren't a lot of other options and we're very reliant on a small group of quality players, so it would be good to broaden that out.

That said, long term I think Tuchel could be one of those managers who is so intense that after a time people stop responding. He may well have a natural end date.

Can I also add that this is Tuchel's first transfer window where he actually gets to decide who we bring in? He won the Champions League for us and was rewarded with a sh*te transfer window in typical fashion.

Him and Boehly are very clearly working extremely hard to address the multitude of problems we have. Granovskaia left the squad in an absolute state with massive issues in every single department and it should have been obvious to everyone that it would take a lot more than 1 transfer window to fix this. Boehly & Tuchel have been forced to start with the foundation (defence) for this one and then I would expect midfield and attack to follow next summer.

I mean how is it that our players stop responding to every coach we bring in? 

3 minutes ago, enigma said:

I mean how is it that our players stop responding to every coach we bring in? 

It's a curse i tell ya, a curse.

American Sports owners seem to have a lot more patience with their managers, I've seen loads of NFL team managers given an extended period of time when things aren't going well. You've even got to look at people like Arteta, under Roman he'd have been gone a long time ago. Basically I think Tuchel will get the season at least.

That all being said I'm really concerned, I started the season very optimistic but our midfielders keep getting injured with Jorgi the only fit experienced one and he seems to have regressed over the past 12 months which is leaving us exposed in midfield. We really needed to buy a replacement for Jorgi and Kante but we didn't.

We also have forwards who can't score mixed with a couple who don't want to be here. On top of all this the players don't seem to know what they're doing as soon as we go behind which shows a horrible mentality. Fingers crossed we can get Zaha and Auba over the line.

From a tactical point of view Tuchel got next to everything wrong last night. Playing a massively past it Azpi as right back in a back 4 was an appalling decision and I'm not sure how he thought it was a good idea. He keeps playing the same sh*t like Mount, Havertz and Mendy and it's frustrating the bell out of me. I'm still not sure whether it's Tuchel's tactics that are awful at times or if he just doesn't have the players to implement them.

Either way I'll still be fully backing Tuchel but if we don't get at least 2 more attackers before the window our season is f**ked, I'd also like to pull a midfield signing out but I don't see that happening, Tielemans seems available I'd like us to go for him.

7 minutes ago, enigma said:

I mean how is it that our players stop responding to every coach we bring in? 

Jose 2 - he became a c**t

Sarri - they didn't, they responded to him more and he quit

Lampard - never really told them what to do in the first place

Tuchel - no idea

20 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Can I also add that this is Tuchel's first transfer window where he actually gets to decide who we bring in? He won the Champions League for us and was rewarded with a sh*te transfer window in typical fashion.

Him and Boehly are very clearly working extremely hard to address the multitude of problems we have. Granovskaia left the squad in an absolute state with massive issues in every single department and it should have been obvious to everyone that it would take a lot more than 1 transfer window to fix this. Boehly & Tuchel have been forced to start with the foundation (defence) for this one and then I would expect midfield and attack to follow next summer.

I think they all failed in their estimation of just how strong our squad was once we won the CL. Havertz did the job fairly as our false 9, yet the club was ready to offer 100m for Håland and when that didn't work out they went for Lukaku and Tuchel was actually satisfied with that. I imagine if we had spent 100m on Ndidi + traded Pulisic + cash for Martinelli... Instead we ended up chasing Kounde for 2 windows for nothing and just signed replacements for Werner and Rudiger.

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

There are a few of here who I have found to be very level headed, not reactionary and well thought out. I admit I am not so a fair amount of the time so I am genuinely interested in whether they think TT should be sacked, and what he should achieve this season not to be sacked.

@Mod @Valerie @CaitlinCFC @Munkworth @Scott Harris @just may I ask your opinions on this?

A long reply, elaborating on what I've posted in the Sack him or back him thread. Sorry for that @axman2526 and everybody who bothers to read it.

In my view Tuchel must be given more time. Yes, this calender year the results have been unimpressive, and our football generally horrible to watch, but we’ve brought in a few new players that need to settle in. We’ve only played 5 games into the new season, FFS.

As I posted in the Sack him or back him thread, Chelsea have no god given right to win anything, but with the players we have, we should at least see more better football and a fighting spirit. I know f**k all about formations and what is anybody’s best position, but arguably Tuchel does. It makes me wonder what is happening on the coaching front. Does Tuchel have the wrong ideas for good players we have or alternatively the right ideas, but the wrong players? Some may be average where we require top players. 

How stubborn is he exactly, what role do his assistents play? Are they yes-men or are they truly supporting TT’s tactics? If they don’t, do they (dare to0 give contrary advice and TT brushes them aside? And our players: how do they feel about it? Aren’t there any who can take a match by the scruff of its neck and direct it into a winning direction? Being a good footballer obviously doesn’t equal being able to read a game and to think tactically or strategically, or firing up your fellow-players. 

Another thing: we’ve had an endless caroussel of managers in the past 20 years, perhaps even before Roman. All brought in their own players, leaving their successors with different ideas with players they did not acquire. Did we win all those trophies because this caroussel or despite it? 

We last won the league title in 2017, so 5 years ago. Before that it was 2015 (2 years in between), 2010 (5 years in between), 2006 (4 years), 2005 ( back to back) and 1955 (ehhhh…). So not having won the title in 5 years is not uncommon, we’re not the only big club (or Leicester) vying for it. Do we expect to win it in say 2 years? It’s not impossible, but is it probable? Not the way we’re going now, let’s face it. Are we a cup team then, as some posters have said a few times? In the recent past we’ve lost 3 FA Cup finals in a row (once with Lampard, twice with Tuchel), plus 2 League Cup finals (Sarri and Tuchel). Losing 5 domestic cup finals in 4 seasons – with mostly the same players – is f**king awful, even if we did manage to win the Europa League and the Champions League (I’m still wondering how). No, we're not even a cup team in my view, not when you defining it as winning those cups.

I would argue that winning the CL has given us an inflated impression of ourselves. Frankly, we’re not as good as we think we are, as we think we should be, or as we want to be. There is never just one element to blame for this, is a combination of factors. Taking away one of those factors, the manager being the easiest one to boot out, will therefore not solve this. Apart from that: who will take over to magically make us win silverware? In my opinion, only time can do anything to improve us, but coaching staff and players need to pull their socks up and be smarter, be better and toughen the f**k up. 

Sorry for asking more questions than actually coming up with a balanced insight or clever remarks on formation, double-pivots or false 9s....

Also please advise: should I bother with spending my cash to come over for a game?
 

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by Valerie

25 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

American Sports owners seem to have a lot more patience with their managers, I've seen loads of NFL team managers given an extended period of time when things aren't going well. You've even got to look at people like Arteta, under Roman he'd have been gone a long time ago. Basically I think Tuchel will get the season at least.

That all being said I'm really concerned, I started the season very optimistic but our midfielders keep getting injured with Jorgi the only fit experienced one and he seems to have regressed over the past 12 months which is leaving us exposed in midfield. We really needed to buy a replacement for Jorgi and Kante but we didn't.

We also have forwards who can't score mixed with a couple who don't want to be here. On top of all this the players don't seem to know what they're doing as soon as we go behind which shows a horrible mentality. Fingers crossed we can get Zaha and Auba over the line.

From a tactical point of view Tuchel got next to everything wrong last night. Playing a massively past it Azpi as right back in a back 4 was an appalling decision and I'm not sure how he thought it was a good idea. He keeps playing the same sh*t like Mount, Havertz and Mendy and it's frustrating the bell out of me. I'm still not sure whether it's Tuchel's tactics that are awful at times or if he just doesn't have the players to implement them.

Either way I'll still be fully backing Tuchel but if we don't get at least 2 more attackers before the window our season is f**ked, I'd also like to pull a midfield signing out but I don't see that happening, Tielemans seems available I'd like us to go for him.

Florian Grillitsch is a free agent, a good DM & linked with a late move to Arsenal, Ajax or Sevilla. 

 

50 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Can I also add that this is Tuchel's first transfer window where he actually gets to decide who we bring in? He won the Champions League for us and was rewarded with a sh*te transfer window in typical fashion.

Him and Boehly are very clearly working extremely hard to address the multitude of problems we have. Granovskaia left the squad in an absolute state with massive issues in every single department and it should have been obvious to everyone that it would take a lot more than 1 transfer window to fix this. Boehly & Tuchel have been forced to start with the foundation (defence) for this one and then I would expect midfield and attack to follow next summer.

I would be careful about allowing him to choose his signings once this window closes today, if he can’t stop this poor run of form we will be screwing ourself over in the long run. It’s imperative we appoint a Sports Director ASAP, as things stand if things go left we will need to find a manager who can use a back 5 which isn’t ideal.
 

2 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Florian Grillitsch is a free agent, a good DM & linked with a late move to Arsenal, Ajax or Sevilla. 

 

I would be careful about allowing him to choose his signings once this window closes today, if he can’t stop this poor run of form we will be screwing ourself over in the long run. It’s imperative we appoint a Sports Director ASAP, as things stand if things go left we will need to find a manager who can use a back 5 which isn’t ideal.
 

We definitely need a sporting director but I don't think we would necessarily need to find a manager that plays 3 at the back. This is probably Thiago's last season before he heads back to Brazil and tbh City have 4 (soon to be 5) very good CBs and they play with 2 CBs 

36 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Playing a massively past it Azpi as right back in a back 4 was an appalling decision and I'm not sure how he thought it was a good idea. He keeps playing the same sh*t like Mount, Havertz and Mendy and it's frustrating the bell out of me.

Who else should play right back if James and Chalobah are injured ?

I agree totally with Mount, Havertz and Mendy. After these shocking performances against Leeds and Southampton Tuchel should bench all three and bring on at least Kepa und Broja. I think Ziyech was OK yesterday.
And here comes the next problem: Is someone from the bench really better than Havertz or Mount ? Yesterday Pulisic's "performance" was a joke as well.

Still back him, if he changes the system and principles of play, then he needs time.

As I see this our challange this season is gonna be top 4, then losing points will be a part of the project. 

 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

I wish people would stop saying this is based on 2 games, or 5 games, or this season....it isnt, its based on the regression we have seen over the past 12 months and the fact Tuchel wont or cant dont anything about it. We have won 4 out of the last 15 games, we havent won a game from behind this year, we are now nowhere near fighting for a title, we are a top 6 team at best hoping for a cup run. By every metric Tuchel is failing, he isnt new to the club, he has had plenty of time and opportunity to fix things. 

And your solution is ?

Only 3 players signed by Tuchel and Boehly were involved last night.

I think Tuchel is intelligent enough to know what is needed at an elite club. Overall we have a pretty poor squad, with over half of it as players you'd classify as average or poor, and the illusion of quality is only really created by the large price tags and high wages paid by the previous regime. 

Let's give TT and Boehly time to assemble a title-winning squad. They've only just begun ... 🙂 

 

Back him for now but if this form continues then I think he could be in trouble. 

As I said last night something doesn’t seem quite right at the mo and when that becomes obvious it usually only changes with a managerial change. 

The team showed no idea or desire get back into the game to even get a point last night, we should have peppered Southampton from minute one of the second half but just made it all too comfortable for them. Tuchel and the players have to take criticism here. 

Tuchel has been backed with HIS players and targets this season. Sacking him this soon into the season would be extremely short term planning from the owners, and sets a precedent for any future coaches that we will be firing at the first sign of trouble. 

I hope with the change of ownership we will be a bit more patient with managers and not get rid at the first sign of trouble. I say it for maybe the 10th time on here, but we get rid of Tuchel and we get further away from the top 2, rather than closer. 

Give him until we've cleared out more players that he doesn't want and have a squad that he wants. If he still can't make it work then, then it's time to go.

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

There are a few of here who I have found to be very level headed, not reactionary and well thought out. I admit I am not so a fair amount of the time so I am genuinely interested in whether they think TT should be sacked, and what he should achieve this season not to be sacked.

@Mod @Valerie @CaitlinCFC @Munkworth @Scott Harris @just may I ask your opinions on this?

Gatecrashing this if that is okay.

Whilst i can see a situation developing that could see him sacked, it cannot be the correct way to go or more to the point i canot see what will be acheived by this as it is anever ending cycle.

For the club that we have become our focus seems to be on managers that deliver rather than nuture and create. Any model has to be continually revisited and refined on that basis and as a club we have had so many outside influences that prevent that from happening in recent years. Liverpool do it and so do City. Keep the group and cherry pick one or two arrivals as part of a longer term vision, but still delivering.

If we sacked TT we would bring in the next high profile deliverer. Who though? That deliverer may well have a model that brings success but again that will get old and if it is not continualy reviewed and pruned as we go along then the cycle will continue.

My favourite  type of manager would be a Graham Potter type but he would never be a manager here. Profile not high enough to gain respect from the senior pros and a team creator which will be at odds with the deliver now ethos.

I would love TT to be the creator of a dynasty and the early signs of buying players under the radar for the future looked like a good plan developing, so hopefully TB has thsi vision and wil not be swayed by these outside influences.

My concern is with the back room. The coaches, the fitness people. These players are just not fit enough to play the style of football that is required to consistently win and entertain at the same time. I don't like us being a possession based team, never have. I like fast passing football, counter attacking. Possession is okay if it is swarming and at pace. Possession taht stagnates and moves sideways just squeezes teh life blood out of any form of entertainment. The players need to be fitter, physically and mentally to acheive this.

I want TT to be the man, i still think he is great and i love his bluntness and honesty. That bluntness i think may need to be directed elsewhere, to the people that work for him rather than the players. The phrase When Saturday Comes is apt in my opinion. What we see on the pitch should be the culmination of the work behind the scenes during the week and should be a window to the tactics, fitness and ability of the individuals and team as a whole. Whilst the manager is the front facing embodiment of this management team there must surely be a review of how each of the players and the team are developing.

Not a matter of sack or back. The backing that TB is giving is phenomenal, its not for the want of trying. Definoitely do not sack, ignore the slings and arrows, but please review teh structure and get back to basics. Run, run, fight and pass quickly. Please. 

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

 

That said, long term I think Tuchel could be one of those managers who is so intense that after a time people stop responding. He may well have a natural end date.

Every manager has a natural end date, the best two managers in the league are more intense than TT, but their players don't stop responding, maybe some of our players just are not up to the job, no matter who you bring in to manage them ?