3 hours ago, Valerie said:

 

Also please advise: should I bother with spending my cash to come over for a game?
 

Good post Val! Regarding your last comment, that is a question most of us are asking ourselves at the moment every time. After reading all the match comments, I don't regret not having been able to travel to Southampton due to work, but will be going on Saturday and I hope to enjoy a good trashing of the spammers. So, despite all the reality of what we are seeing on the pitch, there's always hope that we will improve for the next game. The best part is to meet a few mates for a couple of pints before kick off, it is always good to see the Chelsea mates outside and inside the Bridge. As one of them says, coming to Chelsea these days is having a great day which gets spoiled in between by the football...

Sack him, I dont see any evidence as to how he can change things and turn things around, or if he is even willing to try. Our decline in the past 7 or 8 months is staggering in every way, and if he claims this is because we lost 2 wing backs to injury for a while then thats even more worrying that he had no answers to that decline, with a squad that he had recently won the Champions league with.

Another thing that occurred to me: should we find a different goalkeeping coach? Is Hilario not coaching Mendy well enough or is he not pursuading Mendy with his methods?

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by Valerie

2 minutes ago, coco said:

I don't disagree with any of that, where we differ is the length of time we are prepared to give him.

We have been trying to win the league rotating different managers in and out, but we don't get close anymore, the squad is a patchwork of players thrown together due to the constant managerial changes.

I don't think it's unrealistic to blame that short-termism methodology for the situation were currently in.

That means backing Tuchel to build something meaningful.

And I would agree with that if we had any evidence to put our faith in his ability or willingness to make the changes necessary to get us back on track. Every metric, all the things we see on the pitch, all his after game interviews point to him having no idea how to sort this out, he keeps making the exact same tactical mistakes with the exact same players and is surprised by the outcome. 

Just now, El regreso said:

Because hes probable so frustrated with players not doing the absolutely basics

So why does he continue to play them? Mount and Havertz have played almost 700 minutes and neither have registered a goal or an assist. Also, Havertz at LW? Why are we still seeing his play there? This bloke can't beat a man, can't run through the channels, can't retain possession in tight areas, and he is again playing in a wide area? The chance clean on goal from that pass from Ziyech and Havertz struck it with such little power (on his stronger foot) that even my nan could of caught. Had that been any competent ST, its 2-0. 

Look at Saints 2nd goal and tell me if you have ever seen Rodri, Fabinho, Partey, Bissouma, or Casemiro brushed aside like Jorginho had. Since he's been here he's been brushed aside with absolute ease and to this day he still starts for us. Why? Why is a club expected to compete for top honors still relying on a player that is so bloody weak defensively? Tuchel had all summer to address the glaring issue that was our midfield, and he said it wasn't a priority! Only now he's realizing he f**ked up with his assertion. That is unacceptable. 

I said we should give Tuchel until the WC but we need, and I mean need, to see some changes. And it starts with personnel. Players who shouldn't be playing continue to do so. 14 matches from Hazard, 1 goal. Mount, invisible 5th game running. Jorginho, an abomination. Stubbornness will cost Tuchel is job and I pray he changes. 

2 hours ago, Valerie said:

At this moment, I see 3 votes for sacking him, but no posts as to why. I would like to know the points of view from those forum members too!

Lost to Scumhampton after failing to keep Werner just to destroy them twice a season. Not good enough. 

Back him. I'm one for stability and am ready to give more time to him too (as I wanted with previous managers). But he needs to change something to make these players run and press and being actual football players. What is it that needs to be changed, I don't know. He is showing some flexibility in the tactics back 3 to back 4, for example, but still the players don't press, don't make the effort, get bullied easily, not good enough after all, and that is also on the coach. The coaching staff is not improving any of the players lately, and they have stagnated.

3 hours ago, Valerie said:

At this moment, I see 3 votes for sacking him, but no posts as to why. I would like to know the points of view from those forum members too!

One already has and raises fair points. Can you not see the poll voters Val or is it just me?

dont want to sack him but he might make it inevitable .. if he doesnt stop playing square pegs in round holes.. 

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by Jangz

One good performance every 15 games. TT  saying the midfield is not a problem and he  doesn't need a striker. Consistently  playing players out of position, bad substitutions that do retrieve or turn a game. He  does not inspire me with any confidence at the moment  I expect the players feel the same way. If we don't do some  more business in the next 48 hours Im talking striker and midfield we are in some serious trouble. Don't think our new owners would be happy that in  their 1st season  in charge we blow champions league football 

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by Blue72
Spelling error

Is this thread this a joke ?  

.......as many have pointed out on the match day forum the down turn started the later half of last season when what happened ? ........ take you time 

 

 

 

 

Keeping Tuchel until the world Cup is fine, if we're still struggling then he needs to go. It's a long lingering issue which has not really shown signs of improving. There is a real mental fragility and players who were in good form are now hitting real low points, where is the coach changing things or trying new ideas to improve the situation? It's all stagnating.

3 minutes ago, andy said:

Is this thread this a joke ?  

.......as many have pointed out on the match day forum the down turn started the later half of last season when what happened ? ........ take you time 

 

 

 

 

Are the sanctions still really being used as an excuse?

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Are the sanctions still really being used as an excuse?

Too right ! - There may have been new managers or players who have come in and made an immediate impact, never an owner/director not in the history of the prem league and after what we went through. At one point we didn't know if the club would survive, I bet all the playing and backroom staff were looking for their next club and who can blame them. Then New owners, unsettling in itself and they certainly don't have a magic wand. 

We should be grateful Thomas has stuck with us through this period a lesser man would have been off. 

I reckon we are in this transition for two seasons, at least where we can expect inconsistency 

 

 

3 hours ago, Valerie said:

At this moment, I see 3 votes for sacking him, but no posts as to why. I would like to know the points of view from those forum members too!

I'm okay if he's here a little longer, I kind of fall in between the two options, but leaning towards sacking him.

Not only are we not winning, we have been playing god awful football for a long time now and as much as I want to win, I am also watching the game for entertainment. We're accomplishing neither right now.

I understand we may not have the greatest group of attackers and midfielders but we aren't as bad as it shows. If our guys were playing in their natural positions and they were still awful, then that's a completely different problem, but they're not even being given the chance to play where they're most effective... And that's completely on Tuchel.

We started the year out playing 3-4-3, I see we have attempted to change to a 3-5-2 and 4-3-3. There's no reason our formation should have changed 3 times already in 5 games. Getting used to a new style needed to be done in the summer, not while looking like idiots against Southampton. His 3-4-3 setup is great for knockout competition and I'm happy playing subdued football in that, but on a week to week basis, if you aren't winning, you better make me have a positive viewing experience.

I for one want to keep Tuchel until the WC at the very earliest but dear god save me with the excuses. He has none.

He had his chance to address crucial areas but didn't deem them a priority.  We need results and performances need to improve and if the same players keep playing along with the same bloody tactics than sympathy is gone. 

Here we go again, no reply though…

Dear Tommy Tickles

whats going wrong, you seem to be getting ya Fofanas and Chalobahs in a write pickle, Your captains ain’t leading, and our forwards bar Sterling, who’s cashing in some how, have lost the ability to locate between the goal posts, Jorginho ain’t no DM, in fact apart from Kante, we don’t have that player.

You’re caught in a quandary for either a 5 or a 4 , 5 probably better then you can play 

James-Fofana-Silva-KK- Cucu/Chilly, play a couple of games with Broja leading the line, and Sterling off him, 

Kante or RLC as DM, Kova©️ and Conor more advanced.

Your welcome 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

 Every metric, all the things we see on the pitch, all his after game interviews point to him having no idea how to sort this out, 

No allowance for transitional defence (rudi/christen out cucc/fofan in ? 

What about Sterling ? He 's just started clicking into gear, that metric is starting to show results you must admit that ?

Now Fofana comes in, another top signing, can definitely see him being a success for Tuchel.

Imo it would be mainly the opposition fans that would be happy if we sacked Tuchel at this moment in time. Let things settle down, go the distance this season with Tuchel and then evaluate how were progressing or not.

4 minutes ago, coco said:

No allowance for transitional defence (rudi/christen out cucc/fofan in ? 

What about Sterling ? He 's just started clicking into gear, that metric is starting to show results you must admit that ?

Now Fofana comes in, another top signing, can definitely see him being a success for Tuchel.

Imo it would be mainly the opposition fans that would be happy if we sacked Tuchel at this moment in time. Let things settle down, go the distance this season with Tuchel and then evaluate how were progressing or not.

But its being happening for months, before those transitional periods, we have progressively got worse in every part of the pitch. 

Sterling has done well, but mostly of the back of his own work and not been indoctrinated into stopping going forward to pass it back to the keeper yet.

No idea on Fofana, and we cant base anything on that.

We seem to blow very hot and cold under Tuchel. It seems we can be up for it in one game /big games but can’t be bothered for little games like Leeds or Soton. Basically we’re a cup team. 

2 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Basically we’re a cup team. 

 

I'll keep it short and simple buy buy buy. This is not an issue that can be resolved through coaching. We need elite attackers and midfielders, this is a rebuild and we have begun with the defence yet so much more work is needed.

We've made a good start, but to leave the midfield for another window could be catastrophic, did Tuchel nor the board learn nothing from last season. At minimum 2/3 of Jorginho, Kova and Kante need to be fit at the same time for the whole season.

With 2 of them somewhat injury prone it is not wise to go into the season without reinforcements in such a key area. Money can't be the issue since we've spent so much already clearly we had two targets FDJ and Rice and neither will come this summer so we've chosen to wait I presume.

Sterling is a great addition but he can't do it all on his own relying on a goal or two from him all season will be the end of Tuchel. Look we all love Havertz and Mount, whilst the latter does bring goals and assists to the table the former sadly just doesn't. Not to the level required at least to be getting the minutes he has. We can talk about off the ball movement and other metrics all we like but if 2/3 of your attack don't contribute to goals you have a serious issue. 

I maintain that if TT is to play 3241( his best formation imo not 352, I'm strongly against him lining up this way) then we need an elite goalscorer alongside Mount and Sterling and we will see some proper attractive football. Havertz is definitely good enough for the squad but he shouldn't be given a place in the starting lineup match after match without contributing anything in terms of goals or assets it's not a meritocracy at that point.

We all know the issue if TT can't see it himself then I don't know what to say. It's not like we haven't been linked with numerous attackers sadly nothing has really happened other than Sterling. The longer we persist with the let's try and win by one goal tactic the more it exposes the inherent weakness that run throughout the squad. 

I believe Tuchel is doing his best, but he's getting a lot wrong recently. He needs elite players now to accompany his coaching he's taken these players as far as he can. Already you can see the levels Sterling brought to the attack, but one player won't make a whole lot of difference with the structural issues that remain.

Players continue to lack the confidence to play early balls and to allow forwards to run in behind. Creativity and finishing are currently the main issues I believe and no amount of defensive reinforcements will change this.

Let me say one more time 352 is not the answer 

 

Selling Gilmour when we need midfielders is the last straw. Tuchel is mad. Tuchel out!!!

5 hours ago, Valerie said:

A long reply, elaborating on what I've posted in the Sack him or back him thread. Sorry for that @axman2526 and everybody who bothers to read it.

In my view Tuchel must be given more time. Yes, this calender year the results have been unimpressive, and our football generally horrible to watch, but we’ve brought in a few new players that need to settle in. We’ve only played 5 games into the new season, FFS.

As I posted in the Sack him or back him thread, Chelsea have no god given right to win anything, but with the players we have, we should at least see more better football and a fighting spirit. I know f**k all about formations and what is anybody’s best position, but arguably Tuchel does. It makes me wonder what is happening on the coaching front. Does Tuchel have the wrong ideas for good players we have or alternatively the right ideas, but the wrong players? Some may be average where we require top players. 

How stubborn is he exactly, what role do his assistents play? Are they yes-men or are they truly supporting TT’s tactics? If they don’t, do they (dare to0 give contrary advice and TT brushes them aside? And our players: how do they feel about it? Aren’t there any who can take a match by the scruff of its neck and direct it into a winning direction? Being a good footballer obviously doesn’t equal being able to read a game and to think tactically or strategically, or firing up your fellow-players. 

Another thing: we’ve had an endless caroussel of managers in the past 20 years, perhaps even before Roman. All brought in their own players, leaving their successors with different ideas with players they did not acquire. Did we win all those trophies because this caroussel or despite it? 

We last won the league title in 2017, so 5 years ago. Before that it was 2015 (2 years in between), 2010 (5 years in between), 2006 (4 years), 2005 ( back to back) and 1955 (ehhhh…). So not having won the title in 5 years is not uncommon, we’re not the only big club (or Leicester) vying for it. Do we expect to win it in say 2 years? It’s not impossible, but is it probable? Not the way we’re going now, let’s face it. Are we a cup team then, as some posters have said a few times? In the recent past we’ve lost 3 FA Cup finals in a row (once with Lampard, twice with Tuchel), plus 2 League Cup finals (Sarri and Tuchel). Losing 5 domestic cup finals in 4 seasons – with mostly the same players – is f**king awful, even if we did manage to win the Europa League and the Champions League (I’m still wondering how). No, we're not even a cup team in my view, not when you defining it as winning those cups.

I would argue that winning the CL has given us an inflated impression of ourselves. Frankly, we’re not as good as we think we are, as we think we should be, or as we want to be. There is never just one element to blame for this, is a combination of factors. Taking away one of those factors, the manager being the easiest one to boot out, will therefore not solve this. Apart from that: who will take over to magically make us win silverware? In my opinion, only time can do anything to improve us, but coaching staff and players need to pull their socks up and be smarter, be better and toughen the f**k up. 

Sorry for asking more questions than actually coming up with a balanced insight or clever remarks on formation, double-pivots or false 9s....

Also please advise: should I bother with spending my cash to come over for a game?
 

Pretty sure you should be doing this more often.

43 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I for one want to keep Tuchel until the WC at the very earliest but dear god save me with the excuses. He has none.

He had his chance to address crucial areas but didn't deem them a priority. 

We did though.  The biggest problem at the club is the lack of attacking talent.

We regularly give minutes to attacking players that wouldn't start for a single club in any major European league.

We immediately tried to address this when the window opened, the first 2 deals we agreed were Sterling and Raphina. The former is our best player so far this season and unfortunately the latter turned us down as did our backup in Dembele.

But we've certainly tried to address the issue even if we've been incredibly slow to move for another attacking player after missing out on our main targets.