Just now, Scott Harris said:

I think you're a bit harsh on Hudson-Odoi. Before he was dropped, he was starting to sort things out. He was creating chances, getting beyond players and getting shots away. Unlike the other attacking players, it felt like only a matter of time before everything clicked. For some strange reason, Tuchel took him out of the team. I don't know why he did it, but whatever the reason was hasn't worked out for us at all. 

If I had a good squad and was challenging for the title I wouldn't have Odoi anywhere the first team. Rarely takes the full back on, isn't remotely direct enough and doesn't demonstrate that arrogant confidence you want from a young player. If I'm a full back he wouldn't worry me.

I know there was the whole Bayern interest thing but, in my opinion, if we transfer listed Odoi, Ziyech, Pulisic, RLC, and Barkey we wouldn't get a sniff for any of them from another English team with aspirations to finish in the top three. 

 

Just now, loz said:

If I had a good squad and was challenging for the title I wouldn't have Odoi anywhere the first team. Rarely takes the full back on, isn't remotely direct enough and doesn't demonstrate that arrogant confidence you want from a young player. If I'm a full back he wouldn't worry me.

I know there was the whole Bayern interest thing but, in my opinion, if we transfer listed Odoi, Ziyech, Pulisic, RLC, and Barkey we wouldn't get a sniff for any of them from another English team with aspirations to finish in the top three. 

 

I think you would be surprised. If we put a talent like Hudson-Odoi on the market, most of Europe would go in for him for his potential alone. Pulisic is still wanted by Liverpool. The other 3 you're probably right about though.

Just now, Scott Harris said:

I think you would be surprised. If we put a talent like Hudson-Odoi on the market, most of Europe would go in for him for his potential alone. Pulisic is still wanted by Liverpool. The other 3 you're probably right about though.

Then let's do it. Cash in whilst there is some value left in both of them. Because neither are top quality players. Both in terms of ability or attitude. I'd punt them both in a heart beat.

Glad that I stopped watching right after James missed the first chance early on, I knew it's not going to work out. 

33 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

WTF is Saul still doing at out club...he missed the header that they scored from and he's nothing but sh*te since he's even there...he's got to go back in January...

He’s like a bad version of Jokanavic. To think of the stick we gave him and he was a genius compared to Saul

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Glad that I stopped watching right after James missed the first chance early on, I knew it's not going to work out. 

 

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

But they score lots of lovely goals in training!

And even better goals on Play Station!

When Mount could have walked the ball into the net in the first half after that brilliant pass from Toni, but instead decided to kick the ball right against Pickford's foot, I knew we were in for one of those long nights.  Kind of like when Val presaged that after we scored to go up 3-2 to Zenit, we would concede a late equalizer, and lo-and-behold, we did just that.  Thankfully, we dodged that bullet and did not get drawn against Bayern, but then again maybe we should have, since we are going nowhere in the CL or in the PL this season.

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

But they score lots of lovely goals in training!

In smaller goals with smaller balls I might add!  Or perhaps the smaller balls are brought onto the pitch?

Why do we never see strikers/attakers use the outside of their boot to shoot any longer? James had that chance early on in the first half, but he hit it with the inside of his boot. Surely hit with the outside and try score, rather than placing it from that angle. I don't know, just an observation. Ronaldo (R9) would use that technique a fair bit when one on one with the keeper. 

This game clearly demonstrated that we can safely sell off our second-string players on mass and buy for peanuts a pub team from a God-forgotten place somewhere in Wales for replacement and get the same results but for so much less money.

Tuchel, Find Your Plan B, Because A Isn't Working ATM, When Things Stop Working You Need To Adapt

12 minutes ago, Jackson27 said:

Tuchel, Find Your Plan B, Because A Isn't Working ATM, When Things Stop Working You Need To Adapt

I do not think what we experience is the system or plan issue.  We go through correct motions, but players who are supposed to step up are simply not performing due to poor physical form, lack of skills or no drive. We need to give TT a couple of cash-backed transfer windows to strengthen the squad and clear deadwood.

21 minutes ago, Jackson27 said:

Tuchel, Find Your Plan B, Because A Isn't Working ATM, When Things Stop Working You Need To Adapt

Normally I agree, but not sure what option or plan B he had last night. There was no striker,  or even attacking MF on the bench, he could have done a back 4 but then either Alonso or Azpi be exposed on the left. The players should have done a lot better and got the result, kept missing and couldn't defend 1 set piece

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Oh come on, things aren't great right now but it's not even close to the poverty levels we were witnessing at the end of Frank's reign.

I've been supporting this team since 67 and I've seen some sh*te football in my time, but time has moved on and so as the expectation with the money we have spent however I don't expect to win every time we play; yes players have off days and don't perform but we see these types of performances time and time again against the bottom feeders and mid table sh*te.  From the manager to the players we just f**k these games up.   Injuries and COVID aside, no excuse for dropping points against a very poor Everton side.  I said it before and I'll say it again, come January Liverpool and City will be over the hill and far away and we will be slugging it out with the likes of Utd, Spurs and Arsenal. We were the 3rd or 4th best team coming into this season and it has shown over the last month or so, dropping stupid points against lesser opponents.  Given his history Roman won't out up with this for too much longer; whether it means a clear out of players or Manager who knows.  

1 hour ago, CFCCAN said:

I've been supporting this team since 67 and I've seen some sh*te football in my time, but time has moved on and so as the expectation with the money we have spent however I don't expect to win every time we play; yes players have off days and don't perform but we see these types of performances time and time again against the bottom feeders and mid table sh*te.  From the manager to the players we just f**k these games up.   Injuries and COVID aside, no excuse for dropping points against a very poor Everton side.  I said it before and I'll say it again, come January Liverpool and City will be over the hill and far away and we will be slugging it out with the likes of Utd, Spurs and Arsenal. We were the 3rd or 4th best team coming into this season and it has shown over the last month or so, dropping stupid points against lesser opponents.  Given his history Roman won't out up with this for too much longer; whether it means a clear out of players or Manager who knows.  

And that's what I find OTT. You say that with performances City and Liverpool will go "over the hill and far away" and i can understand that in fairness, but what in Arsenal and Spurs are you seeing that makes you sure they'll chase is down? They have genuine mid table metrics and history suggests that teams that do don't suddenly go on title challenging runs (which both will need to do to catch us atall let alone within a month). United if they build momentum under Rangnick then okay maybe at a push I could potentially forsee that if things don't improve but the North London duo is being pessimistic for the sake of it, sorry but it is.

Edited December 17, 20214 yr by Argo

We would have been better off bringing on Kepa to play in midfield instead of Saul

That might just be the worst performance we have put in since TT came. Difference between this and West Brom is they took their chances, Everton threw away several counters.

We were as boring as watching City. Only we did not win like they do.

We were missing several players but come on Everton were crippled. All their attackers were youth team players. Our front 3 are all internationals but they were terrible.

What was James doing with his one on one? Mount with his? how do you miss that sitter? 

Terrible subs, Barkley and Saul made us play slower than the walking pace we were at already. What was TT thinking? 

That was a terrible display from Everyone. Only Toni showed some desire out there. Up there with the worst of Frank's side. 

Had Everton had even just Richarlison avaible they would have won. 

Shameful from us to throw that away after the attack finally found a finish.

Got lucky with Leeds being stupid giving away pens, not this time. We are going right back to the side we were when Frank was sacked.

4 hours ago, Munkworth said:

@axman2526 Just one assist to go. 

If only mate.

The battle for the title is over. The battle for top 4 has just begun. 

5 hours ago, Womble said:

I f**king hate football!!!

Somedays I hate how much I care about it, or rather care about this club. Cause games like this are painful.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

That might just be the worst performance we have put in since TT came. Difference between this and West Brom is they took their chances, Everton threw away several counters.

We were as boring as watching City. Only we did not win like they do.

We were missing several players but come on Everton were crippled. All their attackers were youth team players. Our front 3 are all internationals but they were terrible.

What was James doing with his one on one? Mount with his? how do you miss that sitter? 

Terrible subs, Barkley and Saul made us play slower than the walking pace we were at already. What was TT thinking? 

That was a terrible display from Everyone. Only Toni showed some desire out there. Up there with the worst of Frank's side. 

Had Everton had even just Richarlison avaible they would have won. 

Shameful from us to throw that away after the attack finally found a finish.

Got lucky with Leeds being stupid giving away pens, not this time. We are going right back to the side we were when Frank was sacked.

Taken on its own you could put this down a poor performance after one too many fixtures. However our performances in the last month (since Juve) have been mostly below par and that is a worrying trend. We've scraped the wins that we managed and have looked vulnerable defensively. Definitely the injuries/illnesses in midfield have contributed. RLC has done OK at times and he would be fine if we had 2 out of the usual 3 (Kova/Jorgi/Kante) behind him. But we look exposed otherwise. Saul is awful, and should not be anywhere near the team. I suspect we will improve defensively once we get the key midfielders back as they are really integral to the stingy system TT had working so well. However even after a year with TT I feel like we look no nearer to improving our attack. That is ultimately going to be a limitation as we are too reliant on defense and mid for goals. When TT's team has done well (a few games excepted) it has generally been when we have been conceding few if any goals. We might be able to go on another cup run with the key players fit but I cannot see us winning a long league campaign unless TT finds a way to get our front players scoring regularly. 

I know there have been some comments about using academy players. But most of the options that have not been used are still very young. Maybe Harvey Vale or Jude Soonsup-Bell in a cup match. But all the rest of the talent is out on loan. I thought that was a risk in the summer when we had a lot of fixtures this season, and so it has proven. We should have kept 1 or 2 of those players and now I doubt we can recall them. 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

The battle for the title is over. The battle for top 4 has just begun. 

Its not over yet, but the top 2 are starting to disappear on the horizon. 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

The battle for the title is over. The battle for top 4 has just begun. 

We are all but halfway through the season and unless both City and Liverpool hit sticky patches, or lose key players and we  turn things around I don't think you're far wrong.

5 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Taken on its own you could put this down a poor performance after one too many fixtures. However our performances in the last month (since Juve) have been mostly below par and that is a worrying trend. We've scraped the wins that we managed and have looked vulnerable defensively. Definitely the injuries/illnesses in midfield have contributed. RLC has done OK at times and he would be fine if we had 2 out of the usual 3 (Kova/Jorgi/Kante) behind him. But we look exposed otherwise. Saul is awful, and should not be anywhere near the team. I suspect we will improve defensively once we get the key midfielders back as they are really integral to the stingy system TT had working so well. However even after a year with TT I feel like we look no nearer to improving our attack. That is ultimately going to be a limitation as we are too reliant on defense and mid for goals. When TT's team has done well (a few games excepted) it has generally been when we have been conceding few if any goals. We might be able to go on another cup run with the key players fit but I cannot see us winning a long league campaign unless TT finds a way to get our front players scoring regularly. 

I know there have been some comments about using academy players. But most of the options that have not been used are still very young. Maybe Harvey Vale or Jude Soonsup-Bell in a cup match. But all the rest of the talent is out on loan. I thought that was a risk in the summer when we had a lot of fixtures this season, and so it has proven. We should have kept 1 or 2 of those players and now I doubt we can recall them. 

Good goal scorers don't turn to sh*t over night but somehow or other, with the rare exception we always find away to turn decent strikers into God awful players.  Since Costa left and despite money being thrown in all directions, we are no better off attacking wise, or it seems that way at least, when you look how many goals the forwards actually produce.  We are still in the habit of too many sideways and backward passes, slow build ups and a malaise about our game when we go ahead and this is certainly not the first season of us witnessing this type of behaviour.  And on top of that we still have not found a manager, regardless of who it has been recently, that has found a way to break down teams sitting deep or if they have the players don't execute the plan. In the absence of our first team midfield the defence has been badly exposed and yet does not appear to have been addressed in the past few weeks.  

A tough game coming up against Wolves, personally I'd rather the game get called off because no way we taking 3 points up there the way we are performing at the moment; the only thing in our favour is that Wolves can't score either....