Why are we spending money on players from the Brazilian 2nd division that aren't even good enough to get in the squad of a relegation standard Premier League team?

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Gonoir Beniashile

1 hour ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

Why are we spending money on players from the Brazilian 2nd division that aren't even good enough to get in the squad of a relegation standard Premier League team?

C’mon this isn’t becos Andre Santos is sh*t; more a case of Forest blindsiding Chelsea, buying Sangare & Dominguez to add to Danilo in the middle of the park. They gave him no chance at all, he is a Brazilian international based on his performances in their local league. That is no small feat. 

3 hours ago, ducavis said:

C’mon this isn’t becos Andre Santos is sh*t; more a case of Forest blindsiding Chelsea, buying Sangare & Dominguez to add to Danilo in the middle of the park. They gave him no chance at all, he is a Brazilian international based on his performances in their local league. That is no small feat. 

You're probably right, and hopefully he's a good player for us in the end. The only caveats I've got are that the Brazil national team often dole out caps to young players - and he's only had one solitary call up, about a year ago. Also we can only really go on what we see - and I didn't see his 12 minutes at Forest or any of his games in the Brazilian 2nd tier (which is currently ranked lower than the Championship). Guess we'll find out when he gets some more minutes.

4 hours ago, ducavis said:

C’mon this isn’t becos Andre Santos is sh*t; more a case of Forest blindsiding Chelsea, buying Sangare & Dominguez to add to Danilo in the middle of the park. They gave him no chance at all, he is a Brazilian international based on his performances in their local league. That is no small feat. 

Forest's target was staying up, of course they aren't going to put their hopes on an untested loan player from Chelsea, buying mature players were the right things to do. Basically Santos was no match for the list of players quoted above, the fact he couldn't get any minutes when Forest were in deep sh1t said something about his current ability. He may turn out to be a good player, but probably expecting too much to suggest he could get game time with the Chelsea first team.

6 hours ago, ducavis said:

C’mon this isn’t becos Andre Santos is sh*t; more a case of Forest blindsiding Chelsea, buying Sangare & Dominguez to add to Danilo in the middle of the park. They gave him no chance at all, he is a Brazilian international based on his performances in their local league. That is no small feat. 

Blindsided? Did the club have no concept of foreplaning? 

Forest were linked to multiple midfielders all throughout the window and must have bought like 50 players overall. Did the people in charge of the loan sign off the contract with a pinky promise or something? They shouldn't have been that naive. 

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Remodez

13 minutes ago, Remodez said:

Blindsided? Did the club have no concept of foreplaning? 

Forest were linked to multiple midfielders all throughout the window and must have bought like 50 players overall. Did the people in charge of the loan sign off the contract with a pinky promise or something? They shouldn't have been that naive. 

It was rumoured that Forest had to pay us financial penalties if Santos didn't play, so I guess the club didn't think for one minute he'd only get 7 minutes of PL football in 4.months ... 

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Sexyfootball

20 minutes ago, Remodez said:

Blindsided? Did the club have no concept of foreplaning? 

Forest were linked to multiple midfielders all throughout the window and must have bought like 50 players overall. Did the people in charge of the loan sign off the contract with a pinky promise or something? They shouldn't have been that naive. 

I'm not sure what else a club loaning a player can do though, the clubs that want him will make a proposal that I expect includes a guarantee of sorts promising game time, with no evidence to the contrary the loan can only be made with those expectations. 

It's only stupid if we then send other players there afterwards.

12 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

It was rumoured that Forest had to pay us financial penalties if Santos didn't play, so I guess the club didn't think for one minute he'd only get 7 minutes of PL football in 4.months ... 

But why? I can't believe the club thought whatever financial penalties they could impose would be more worrying to Forrest than fighting relegation? 

10 minutes ago, dkw said:

I'm not sure what else a club loaning a player can do though, the clubs that want him will make a proposal that I expect includes a guarantee of sorts promising game time, with no evidence to the contrary the loan can only be made with those expectations. 

It's only stupid if we then send other players there afterwards.

I partly agree which is why I haven't really complained much about most of the other loans apart from Charlie Webster but even with promises the club should still use logic and common sense before signing it off.

We sent him to Forrest of all teams who spent all window buying an entire new squad and then some. Even before they bought the 2 extra midfielders, it was unlikely he would start cause the manager has to quickly try and find an established first XI with all those players and also avoid relegation. 

5 minutes ago, Remodez said:

But why? I can't believe the club thought whatever financial penalties they could impose would be more worrying to Forrest than fighting relegation? 

Presumably because Santos did well enough on pre-season that they thought he'd be fine at Forest ?

Not everything needs to be an excuse for bashing the club !

They loaned a promising player with an international cap to a lower half PL side, thinking he'd be in the mix for getting multiple minutes, with an insurance policy of financial penalties if he didn't play. All quite sensible in my book. 

It hasn't worked out ... it happens ... so again they've done the sensible thing by cancelling the loan. 

Forest are paying a penalty as well so clearly they went against what they said. 

On 05/01/2024 at 12:58, Remodez said:

There is but nothing proper planning can't get around. Why did we loan out Charlie Webster to Holland when we were already planning, I assume, on bringing in more foreign players and sorting out their loans. Even if the club assumed someone would take Lukaku and Ziyech, it would have been prudent to sort them out first before limiting yourself to foreign loans. 

Santos just had one season in Brazil, how did the club expect him to get into a relegation fighting team. Especially when they were already signing so many players. 

 

A relegation threatened club would start a good player week in week out to save them if they were good enough. The fact he couldn't even make the match day squad is concerning. 

On 08/01/2024 at 12:39, RIP Mourinho said:

A relegation threatened club would start a good player week in week out to save them if they were good enough. The fact he couldn't even make the match day squad is concerning. 

It's not always the case though, a young player can be extremely talented but lack the work rate and leadership to get into the starting squad regularly.

It's not as severe as this situation but look at Gilmour to Norwich, Norwich fans said he was sh*t and he was benched for a lot of games. I even remember Fulham fans saying RLC is crap after we loaned him there.

Sometimes it can just be a matter of wrong place wrong time. Always the risk with loaning players. My honest opinion? I don't think him or Casadei will ever be good enough, but the Santos situation could be a case of wrong place wrong time. 

Officially gone on loan to sister club Strasbourg.

I feel this should have been the case at the start of the season, easy to say knowing what happened at Forest I know.

Hopefully him and Gabriel have some good chemistry and get lots of game time between now and the end of the season.

The timing suggests it might have been linked to Gallagher not moving. Perhaps they were hopeful.

Hope Andre comes back stronger and with better judgment on the ball.

11 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Officially gone on loan to sister club Strasbourg.

I feel this should have been the case at the start of the season, easy to say knowing what happened at Forest I know.

Hopefully him and Gabriel have some good chemistry and get lots of game time between now and the end of the season.

I think it wasn't quite an option though as we were limited by how many we could loan internationally. Now that we've brought back Moreira it opened up a space. 

I might be wrong there but think that is the case. 

 

2 hours ago, bisright1 said:

I think it wasn't quite an option though as we were limited by how many we could loan internationally. Now that we've brought back Moreira it opened up a space. 

I might be wrong there but think that is the case. 

 

It was the case you are right, and in hindsight both Moreira and Fofanas loans were a waste and sending Santos there to begin with would likely have been better.

I think we have spent alot of money on sub standard dross, but santos is definitely one of the wiser purchases. Possibly one good loan away from being in the same position as casadai and breaking into our first team squad. Good luck lad.

Doesn’t get to play at all for Strasbourg either. No one does loans as badly as us😔

Should have been kept here since Lavia and Ugochuwku are always injured and almost never been fit. At least we would have a someone on the bench who's a midfilder and could give Enzo or Caiceido a bit of rest from time to time.

4 minutes ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

Should have been kept here since Lavia and Ugochuwku are always injured and almost never been fit. At least we would have a someone on the bench who's a midfilder and could give Enzo or Caiceido a bit of rest from time to time.

Casadei is here fit and ready and isn’t playing. What makes you think Santos will? 

7 minutes ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

Should have been kept here since Lavia and Ugochuwku are always injured and almost never been fit. At least we would have a someone on the bench who's a midfilder and could give Enzo or Caiceido a bit of rest from time to time.

Same with David Fofana really. At least we'd have had someone in the squad that had played champions league football this season  

14 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Casadei is here fit and ready and isn’t playing. What makes you think Santos will? 

Not really the same kind of player no ? Casadei seems more like an 8 or 10 (wich is profile we don't really have) and Santos is more of a 6 similar to Caiceido's role.  I doubt Casadei can play in a 2 man midfield while i can see Santos playing beside Caiceido or Enzo and it make sense. But maybe you are right and he stays and still doesnt play but at least he would be in the Chelsea entourage, could play with u21 with Washington and could go to Silva's house for dinner.

Edited March 3, 20242 yr by DidierDrogbalala

10 minutes ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

Not really the same kind of player no ? Casadei seems more like an 8 or 10 (wich is profile we don't really have) and Santos is more of a 6 similar to Caiceido's role.  I doubt Casadei can play in a 2 man midfield while i can see Santos playing beside Caiceido or Enzo and it make sense. But maybe you are right and he stays and still doesnt play but at least he would be in the Chelsea entourage, could play with u21 with Washington and could go to Silva's house for dinner.

If Lesly didn’t play, neither would Santos. Not even playing at Strasbourg apparently.