37 minutes ago, Andy2461 said:

BBC just showing highlights of the semi v city looking at the Jackson misses 

I cannot stand the bloke 

join the bandwagon brother - you are very welcome. 

On 25/05/2024 at 18:51, nonotnowjim said:

join the bandwagon brother - you are very welcome. 

to start with i have no problem with you not being a jackson fan but curious as to why he gets much more hate/dislike then others. Timo was a far worse signing that was more expensive.. Less said about Torres or Sheva the better. 

What is it about certain players that give vibes such as these... and i say that since i am also guilty of it. i never liked Jorgi despite his good service here.

9 hours ago, Jangz said:

to start with i have no problem with you not being a jackson fan but curious as to why he gets much more hate/dislike then others. Timo was a far worse signing that was more expensive.. Less said about Torres or Sheva the better. 

What is it about certain players that give vibes such as these... and i say that since i am also guilty of it. i never liked Jorgi despite his good service here.

I can only speak for myself, with my summary on the page before this one summing up my positon. "...his sh*t play, brain dead arguing, lack of vision, stupid hair cuts, creepy begging for naked photos from some only fans tart, and his ugly face - all add up to mean that he is the Chelsea player that I have disliked the most...."

I do accept that my dislike for Nico may be seen as irrational - and I am ok with that

I also accept that Timo was a more expensive flop - but in my eyes, Timo was infinitely more likeable than this bloke.  Timo was a lovely boy.  I Loved Timo. I Hate Nico. Irrational or otherwise.

I didn't mind Jorgi - but did regularly exaggerate my criticism of him, as I knew it wound up brother Gol15. Getting him worked up was always fun.

13 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

I can only speak for myself, with my summary on the page before this one summing up my positon. "...his sh*t play, brain dead arguing, lack of vision, stupid hair cuts, creepy begging for naked photos from some only fans tart, and his ugly face - all add up to mean that he is the Chelsea player that I have disliked the most...."

I do accept that my dislike for Nico may be seen as irrational - and I am ok with that

I also accept that Timo was a more expensive flop - but in my eyes, Timo was infinitely more likeable than this bloke.  Timo was a lovely boy.  I Loved Timo. I Hate Nico. Irrational or otherwise.

I didn't mind Jorgi - but did regularly exaggerate my criticism of him, as I knew it wound up brother Gol15. Getting him worked up was always fun.

What bothers me the most about Jackson (more than his lack of efficiency), is the amount of times he is in an offside position. 
He is just so often in an offside position. 2nd most in the Prem after Darwin from all players. 
It started bothering half a season ago. And because of the annoyance I started subconsciously paying even more attention to it. (never a good idea 😄) 
Then I started noticing that often during the build ups he also is and remains in an offside position when he isn't directly involved in the action. 
Which prevented us often to play quickly as the player planning on giving the pass had to hold back or find an alternatives or just wait in order to avoid another offside. 

I honestly think that Jackson has his qualities and can only get better, but I don't want to see him as a 9. I much more prefer him as a left attacker. 
He has his pace. I like his tenacity and perseverance. Decent in the build up. Sometimes even does a crazy dribble.
I'm also sure that he mainly played up front as we simply had no alternatives. The alternative was Palmer, who you don't want to see on that position as you make our best player so much worse. 

A real 9 is for me the biggest priority. Yes Jackson scored his goals as well in his debut season, but he has missed oh so many easy ones. He has the 17th worse xGDiff. (The basic premise of expected goal differential is to assess how dangerous a player's shots are) from all the players measured in all top competitions (1481 players). Once again still better than Nunez 😄 But a real 9 would have definitely scored more goals.

I am convinced that Jackson will still keep making his goals from the wing with the game in front of him, where he can run with the ball.
Maybe even become more efficient as he doesn't always have the time to think in front of goal. He will for sure be much less offside. 

There are annoying things about many players and even Drogba had his faults.  He regularly got caught offside and some of his diving lead me to believe he had been taken out by a sniper. 

Jackson is showing promise and we need to keep nurturing him for at least another season.  He's more effective than Timo was and even if he doesn't make himself a first teamer he is certainly a good option from the bench. Maybe like Kalou. I think patience is required and given his relatively low cost we should be more than willing to show some.

Admire his enthusiasm but basically brain dead. The likes of Rooney and Beckham were hardly front runners in the I Q stakes, but had enough football smarts to succeed. Don’t see him being coached into on pitch savvy- you can’t put in what Gods left out

Another thing that I think we need to discuss - although not sure I am the best person to make the point - is how many of Jacksons goals really "matter". I know that all goals count the same, but goals 5 and 6 in a 6v0 win do not really mean as much as a winning goal in a tight game....

... and whilst Jackson had a respectable return of 14 league goals this season - I think the context of those goals should also be noted.

Jacksons EPL goals

25 Aug v Luton. 3rd goal of a 3v0 win.  Effectively meaningless.

7 Oct v Burnley. 4th goal of a 4v1 win.  Effectively meaningless.

6 Nov v Spurs. Hatrick. Goals 2, 3 and 4 in a 4v1 win. Goals in the 94th and 97th min as spurs went all out attack despite having 2 players sent off.  The winning goal, with the other 2 adding to the gloss, but effectively meaningless.

12 Nov v Man City. Our 3rd goal in a 4v4 draw.   A big goal

 

16 Dec v Sheff Utd. 2nd goal in a 2v0 win.   Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

02 March v Brentford. Opening goal in a 2v2 draw.  A big goal.

11 March v Newcastle. Opening goal in 3v2 win. A big goal.

15 April v Everton. 4th goal in a 6v0 win - Effectively meaningless.

2 May v Spurs. 2nd goal in 2v0 win.  Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

5 May v West Ham. Goal 4 and 5 in 5v0 win. Effectively meaningless.
 

11 May v Forest. Winning goal in 3v2 win.   The winning goal.

 

So out of 14 goals - 7 were effectively meaningless and made no difference to the outcome, other than our Goal difference. The other 6 were meaningful, as they either opening the scoring, drew us level, or were winners.

When looked at in this context - his goal output isnt so commendable.

 

 

Goal is a goal is a goal is a goal. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein (1874-1946).

1 hour ago, dermott said:

Goal is a goal is a goal is a goal. To paraphrase Gertrude Stein (1874-1946).

Yeah - until it isnt. A 94th minute winner in a tight game, is always more valuble that goal 6 of 6 in a 6v0 hammering.

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Another thing that I think we need to discuss - although not sure I am the best person to make the point - is how many of Jacksons goals really "matter". I know that all goals count the same, but goals 5 and 6 in a 6v0 win do not really mean as much as a winning goal in a tight game....

... and whilst Jackson had a respectable return of 14 league goals this season - I think the context of those goals should also be noted.

Jacksons EPL goals

25 Aug v Luton. 3rd goal of a 3v0 win.  Effectively meaningless.

7 Oct v Burnley. 4th goal of a 4v1 win.  Effectively meaningless.

6 Nov v Spurs. Hatrick. Goals 2, 3 and 4 in a 4v1 win. Goals in the 94th and 97th min as spurs went all out attack despite having 2 players sent off.  The winning goal, with the other 2 adding to the gloss, but effectively meaningless.

12 Nov v Man City. Our 3rd goal in a 4v4 draw.   A big goal

 

16 Dec v Sheff Utd. 2nd goal in a 2v0 win.   Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

02 March v Brentford. Opening goal in a 2v2 draw.  A big goal.

11 March v Newcastle. Opening goal in 3v2 win. A big goal.

15 April v Everton. 4th goal in a 6v0 win - Effectively meaningless.

2 May v Spurs. 2nd goal in 2v0 win.  Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

5 May v West Ham. Goal 4 and 5 in 5v0 win. Effectively meaningless.
 

11 May v Forest. Winning goal in 3v2 win.   The winning goal.

 

So out of 14 goals - 7 were effectively meaningless and made no difference to the outcome, other than our Goal difference. The other 6 were meaningful, as they either opening the scoring, drew us level, or were winners.

When looked at in this context - his goal output isnt so commendable.

 

 

This is an admirable level of analysis and commitment to support your dislike. 😁What I find confusing is that when Jackson fluffs so many chances, makes so many wrong decisions, and follows up his excellent touch and close control with immediately losing the ball, people cite that fact that he isn't a centre forward, he's actually a winger, to support this. But he has played out wide, he has tracked the ball and received out wide. I don't actually see a decent range of wide play, crossing the ball, appreciation of space and players arriving etc. Is he really a winger converted to CF? Really?

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

6 Nov v Spurs. Hatrick. Goals 2, 3 and 4 in a 4v1 win. Goals in the 94th and 97th min as spurs went all out attack despite having 2 players sent off.  The winning goal, with the other 2 adding to the gloss, but effectively meaningless.

That one was a surreal occasion. A hatrick whilst simultaneously being the worst player on the pitch. His last goal he did everything humanly possible to f**k up but still it managed to end up in the net.

1 minute ago, Snedger said:

That one was a surreal occasion. A hatrick whilst simultaneously being the worst player on the pitch. His last goal he did everything humanly possible to f**k up but still it managed to end up in the net.

At least he ended up with a hatrick.  Something similar happened to me and I ended up with three children

13 hours ago, Snedger said:

That one was a surreal occasion. A hatrick whilst simultaneously being the worst player on the pitch. His last goal he did everything humanly possible to f**k up but still it managed to end up in the net.

It was amazing seeing how he just couldn't figure out how to stay onside in that game with spuds playing their defence basically on the half way line.

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

It was amazing seeing how he just couldn't figure out how to stay onside in that game with spuds playing their defence basically on the half way line.

He makes Ross the Boss look like Einstein.

I actually think that Jackson, Mudryk and even Madueke are the most at risk with Maresca.

Apparently he works closely with the players developing and expecting high levels of care of the ball, including ensuring passes to team mates are made to the correct foot and at the right pace, etc.

Whilst Jackson's initial touch can be good and his turn and pace is an asset, his subsequent care of the ball, decision making and pass execution is often very poor.

Mudryk, seems to me, to be a player where his brain is so fast, his body and feet cannot keep up. Its almost as if his brain is already on the third phase of his mental picture before he has even received the ball. He may have good touch and passing ability, but Maresca will need to work closely with him just to slow up his thought processes to align it to his physical processes.

Madueke, similarly, on the face of it, looks like he has good touch, close control and a mazy dribble. I don't know if it is just my perception but i am never totally sure that he actually has full control of the ball during these phases and again, often his decision making and final ball is poor.

Can Mazresca coach improvement into these players? Possibly. Will he have time to devote to three forward players for this. Not sure.

Let's not forget, defensively he will play narrow with quick passing movements out of the opposition press that the defence and midfield will draw in. Disasi and Badiashile have horrendous levels of comfort on the ball, especially under a press. With traps being laid by top PL attacking units, Disasi giving the ball flat to nearest bloke, Badiashile, who looks up, shapes and then gives it back to him, with no idea how to work through a press, Maresca will have his work cut out just with this and as this tactic is the foundation of his philosophy i am not convinced that Jackson, Mudryk and Madueke will get the chance if there are players like Palmer, Nkunku and Sterling all ready good to go.

Jackson's ability to come into the midfield and be involved in play will make him an asset in Maresca's football. The other areas you mentioned I hope he develops. 

4 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Jackson's ability to come into the midfield and be involved in play will make him an asset in Maresca's football. The other areas you mentioned I hope he develops. 

Not above Nkunku. Sorry. The only way that works is Palmer on the Right, Nkunku on the left and Jackson up top/in the middle of the three. If they go and get a proper striker of renown, then i cannot see much more than the bench for Jackson competing with Sterling as back up to Nkunku.

6 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Not above Nkunku. Sorry. The only way that works is Palmer on the Right, Nkunku on the left and Jackson up top/in the middle of the three. If they go and get a proper striker of renown, then i cannot see much more than the bench for Jackson competing with Sterling as back up to Nkunku.

Preaching to the choir. Jackson still starting for us next season will only be asking for more issues but as a rotational option he will be an asset. 

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

I actually think that Jackson, Mudryk and even Madueke are the most at risk with Maresca.

Apparently he works closely with the players developing and expecting high levels of care of the ball, including ensuring passes to team mates are made to the correct foot and at the right pace, etc.

Whilst Jackson's initial touch can be good and his turn and pace is an asset, his subsequent care of the ball, decision making and pass execution is often very poor.

Mudryk, seems to me, to be a player where his brain is so fast, his body and feet cannot keep up. Its almost as if his brain is already on the third phase of his mental picture before he has even received the ball. He may have good touch and passing ability, but Maresca will need to work closely with him just to slow up his thought processes to align it to his physical processes.

Madueke, similarly, on the face of it, looks like he has good touch, close control and a mazy dribble. I don't know if it is just my perception but i am never totally sure that he actually has full control of the ball during these phases and again, often his decision making and final ball is poor.

Can Mazresca coach improvement into these players? Possibly. Will he have time to devote to three forward players for this. Not sure.

Let's not forget, defensively he will play narrow with quick passing movements out of the opposition press that the defence and midfield will draw in. Disasi and Badiashile have horrendous levels of comfort on the ball, especially under a press. With traps being laid by top PL attacking units, Disasi giving the ball flat to nearest bloke, Badiashile, who looks up, shapes and then gives it back to him, with no idea how to work through a press, Maresca will have his work cut out just with this and as this tactic is the foundation of his philosophy i am not convinced that Jackson, Mudryk and Madueke will get the chance if there are players like Palmer, Nkunku and Sterling all ready good to go.

Not to taint the Wacko Jacko thread with Mudryk talk - but I actually think it is the opposite of what you say. His legs and pace are so fast, but his brain is always half a step behind. This works fine when instinct takes over (like his goal against Newcastle) - but whenever he has to use his brain - he struggles.  Whenever an intelligent thought comes to him - he outruns it.....

Both Jackson and Mudryk seem to me to both be as sharp as marbles....

https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/09/chelsea-striker-nicolas-jackson-suffers-serious-ankle-injury-senegal-20998403/?ico=mosaic_tag

We wish Nicolas well in his recovery.

8 minutes ago, Simplymo said:

https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/09/chelsea-striker-nicolas-jackson-suffers-serious-ankle-injury-senegal-20998403/?ico=mosaic_tag

Ffs, here we go again. Do we class this as the end of last season, or the start of a new one?

Edited June 9, 20242 yr by Kev56

16 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Ffs, here we go again. Do we class this as the end of last season, or the start of a new one?

Seasons these days are never ending with friendlies, overseas money-making excursions, World Cups, Euros, World Club Cups, et al. So, basically, more of the same.

Unfortunate.  Hopefully no more than a bad sprain as noted.  Knowing our luck though.....

Speedy recovery Nico

16 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Unfortunate.  Hopefully no more than a bad sprain as noted.  Knowing our luck though.....

Speedy recovery Nico

Yeah, its a bit vague..."serious" in the title (probably click bait) then just a bad ankle sprain. So hopefully he just needs to rest it up and all good. 🤞