For me Neto gets in our strongest line up whilst Garnacho doesn’t. Neto is our best option on the left imo.

His work rate and defensive work mean he gets the nod in most big games but if he wants to stay at Chelsea the left is his only realistic starting option once Estevao starts regularly.

Garnacho is a weird one. His first touch is often poor and the end product similar. The bits in between are often very good though. Takes his man on, great pace and never hides.

I’d definitely keep Neto but I think he’ll go at the end of the season. I’d probably keep Garnacho too as too many of us have written off players who’ve turned it around with a bit of time. Caicedo, Cucu, and even Sanchez spring to mind. Both can be effective players for us and we’ll get our money back at the very least on both if we do move them on.

5 hours ago, 19seventyone said:

For me Neto gets in our strongest line up whilst Garnacho doesn’t. Neto is our best option on the left imo.

His work rate and defensive work mean he gets the nod in most big games but if he wants to stay at Chelsea the left is his only realistic starting option once Estevao starts regularly.

Garnacho is a weird one. His first touch is often poor and the end product similar. The bits in between are often very good though. Takes his man on, great pace and never hides.

I’d definitely keep Neto but I think he’ll go at the end of the season. I’d probably keep Garnacho too as too many of us have written off players who’ve turned it around with a bit of time. Caicedo, Cucu, and even Sanchez spring to mind. Both can be effective players for us and we’ll get our money back at the very least on both if we do move them on.

I agree with you that Neto is specially useful in the big games. Garnacho is younger and still has a lot to learn.

I don't think there is such a thing as a Starting XI anymore though. Managers today aren’t picking “the best XI” — they’re picking for the first phase of the match.
Some players are selected specifically to press high, push the tempo, and test boundaries, so that a more technical player can come on later and finish the job.

There are simply too many games now, and squads aren’t built around 11 untouchables anymore. In our case, we only have three wingers ready to play — and that includes the 18-year-old. 4 with Cole, but he will sometimes play on the right, sometimes centrally, maybe even on the left.

13 hours ago, STATS said:

Garnacho has not been poor, nor has he been great. Neto has been having a much better season than him. Garnacho was great against Wolves, well second half. His first half was poor. He was good against Qarabag when he came on and scored against Sunderland but would not say was great. Cardiff obviously, yes he had a good game coming on. Neto was one of our best players against Forest, West Ham, Benfica. Had a good game against Burnley too. There is a reason why, out of the wingers, Neto is the one that usually stays on the longest. Neto has been heads and shoulders above Garnacho. The stats don't lie.

‘The stats don’t lie’

Garnacho beats him on everything except for goals so far. Glad to see everyone is fooled by fugazi goals against relegation fodder rather than watching how they are over the full 90. Same reason Enzo gets away with so many fans.

Merry Christmas all.

3 hours ago, GarnachoCheese said:

‘The stats don’t lie’

Garnacho beats him on everything except for goals so far. Glad to see everyone is fooled by fugazi goals against relegation fodder rather than watching how they are over the full 90. Same reason Enzo gets away with so many fans.

Merry Christmas all.

I'm off to watch a football match tomorrow, Im hoping the players can bury those npxG's into the net/ Im going to spaz out over my excel spreadsheet at the prog Carries and i will dribble complete down my chin. I really cant stand fans who celebrate goals, I dont know why they stand up and cheer whats the point, I much prefer celebrating the starting pass of the move from the Keeper who had the vision to lay the ball to feet of the defender who then played a series of passes with his fellow defenders. I mean, this is football right?

3 hours ago, GarnachoCheese said:

‘The stats don’t lie’

Garnacho beats him on everything except for goals so far. Glad to see everyone is fooled by fugazi goals against relegation fodder rather than watching how they are over the full 90. Same reason Enzo gets away with so many fans.

Merry Christmas all.

There is no way you can actually watch the games and think they have been on the same level. Neto has been one our better attackers. Like I say, there is a reason Neto always outlasts the other wingers. Neto is much more effective in games. If you are denying this then there is obviously an agenda. 5 goals, 3 assists not a bad return.

Neto kind of has to play to make up for Enzo's inability to move at a speed greater than a 9 year old.

3 hours ago, STATS said:

There is no way you can actually watch the games and think they have been on the same level. Neto has been one our better attackers. Like I say, there is a reason Neto always outlasts the other wingers. Neto is much more effective in games. If you are denying this then there is obviously an agenda. 5 goals, 3 assists not a bad return.

There’s no way you can watch Neto run head down into the corner flag do 3 step overs then recycle possession and think he’s doing well. Enzo Fernandez of wingers. People are looking at his G/A’s without watching him for the full 90. Stats backup the eye test.

3 hours ago, bluelightening said:

I'm off to watch a football match tomorrow, Im hoping the players can bury those npxG's into the net/ Im going to spaz out over my excel spreadsheet at the prog Carries and i will dribble complete down my chin. I really cant stand fans who celebrate goals, I dont know why they stand up and cheer whats the point, I much prefer celebrating the starting pass of the move from the Keeper who had the vision to lay the ball to feet of the defender who then played a series of passes with his fellow defenders. I mean, this is football right?

Enjoy watching the match mate, always exciting going to your first game.

49 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

There’s no way you can watch Neto run head down into the corner flag do 3 step overs then recycle possession and think he’s doing well. Enzo Fernandez of wingers. People are looking at his G/A’s without watching him for the full 90. Stats backup the eye test.

I watch the full 90 and I think he has improved big time. I think he has looked a lot better on the left. Like I say, I have already names 3 games where he was quality. He is not world class but do I think he is better than Garnacho, Gittens, etc, then yes. I think he is actually quite underrated.

10 hours ago, GarnachoCheese said:

‘The stats don’t lie’

Garnacho beats him on everything except for goals so far. Glad to see everyone is fooled by fugazi goals against relegation fodder rather than watching how they are over the full 90. Same reason Enzo gets away with so many fans.

Merry Christmas all.

They do lie a lot actually--"torture the numbers long enough, and they’ll confess."
People tend to overuse them. These stats are often lifted out of context: who was the opposition, what exactly was the player’s role, did he have defensive responsibilities or freedom to stay high, and so on.

And when two players are compared, they often haven’t even played in the same matches--Garnacho also missed a few big games being the new kid and all that. Contrary to popular belief, players do have to learn how the team operates (did not start Chelsea vs Arsenal for ex).

Neto and Garnacho even play on different sides of the pitch, so we'd have to see how Neto operates on the left for a good number of games to actually have a better sense as to what he can do there.

1 hour ago, acaeus said:

They do lie a lot actually--"torture the numbers long enough, and they’ll confess."
People tend to overuse them. These stats are often lifted out of context: who was the opposition, what exactly was the player’s role, did he have defensive responsibilities or freedom to stay high, and so on.

And when two players are compared, they often haven’t even played in the same matches--Garnacho also missed a few big games being the new kid and all that. Contrary to popular belief, players do have to learn how the team operates (did not start Chelsea vs Arsenal for ex).

Neto and Garnacho even play on different sides of the pitch, so we'd have to see how Neto operates on the left for a good number of games to actually have a better sense as to what he can do there.

Oh okay stats never lie except for when I want never mind enjoy ur day mate

13 hours ago, GarnachoCheese said:

‘The stats don’t lie’ +xA

Garnacho beats him on everything except for goals so far. Glad to see everyone is fooled by fugazi goals against relegation fodder rather than watching how they are over the full 90. Same reason Enzo gets away with so many fans.

Merry Christmas all.

Thank goodness npxG+xA wasn't a thing back in 1994: I probably would not have started following that team in the blue kit that played a "let's go, lads!" sort of football.

Seriously, what happened to football?

Or too much Crimbo booze for me?

21 hours ago, GarnachoCheese said:

‘The stats don’t lie’

Garnacho beats him on everything except for goals so far. Glad to see everyone is fooled by fugazi goals against relegation fodder rather than watching how they are over the full 90. Same reason Enzo gets away with so many fans.

Merry Christmas all.

On the one hand I can see what you are saying but the counter argument is that this comparison is flawed as Garnacho has only got half the minutes played over such a small sample size. Even doing a per 90 comparison is dubious when there is such a significant gap between them. Ideally, I think, you'd want a comparison of when they were both playing on either side but even that would be suspect because of the low number of times that they have played together.

I don't think either are consistent enough or indeed truly dangerous enough to be the long term answer, but I think you've also said that previously as well.

10 hours ago, GarnachoCheese said:

Oh okay stats never lie except for when I want never mind enjoy ur day mate

Well they might not lie but they also don't tell the whole truth. Joao Pedro started this season for us as statistically one of the most clinical finishers we've had in our history.

17 hours ago, GarnachoCheese said:

Enjoy watching the match mate, always exciting going to your first game.

Thanks... Hope your mummy and daddy buy you the fully mascot package when they take you.

38 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

Thanks... Hope your mummy and daddy buy you the fully mascot package when they take you.

According to this foolproof stat there is a 56% chance they will

39 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

People need to open their eyes and see this stat padding fraud is holding the entire side back.

The longer Maresca insists on playing Mr ‘Run into dead end after dead end’ at RW instead of an actually talented player like CP or Estevao the longer this club will remain an absolute embarrassment.

Dont let his headless chicken routine fool you he’s a horrible player keeping CP from playing in his strongest position.

16 hours ago, The Boehly Babes said:

People need to open their eyes and see this stat padding fraud is holding the entire side back.

The longer Maresca insists on playing Mr ‘Run into dead end after dead end’ at RW instead of an actually talented player like CP or Estevao the longer this club will remain an absolute embarrassment.

Dont let his headless chicken routine fool you he’s a horrible player keeping CP from playing in his strongest position.

Neto is the least of our worries and problems right now.

Sporting Directors, Maresca, Enzo F, Badishile, Tosin, Gittens, Mudryk, Delap all need castrating before Neto.

7 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Neto is the least of our worries and problems right now.

Sporting Directors, Maresca, Enzo F, Badishile, Tosin, Gittens, Mudryk, Delap all need castrating before Neto.

I think he is one of the biggest worries personally, at least on the pitch. With the amount of the ball Neto saw last night, it's unacceptable the amount of times he got it wrong, same goes with Garnacho. It was the same against Newcastle and Everton too. Our wingers are atrocious. It's a bigger issue with Neto than it is most other players because he has been made untouchable by Maresca. The guy plays in every game.

17 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Neto is the least of our worries and problems right now.

Sporting Directors, Maresca, Enzo F, Badishile, Tosin, Gittens, Mudryk, Delap all need castrating before Neto.

Looking at how that lot have been performing, I can make a good argument that this has already happened :-)

11 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think he is one of the biggest worries personally, at least on the pitch. With the amount of the ball Neto saw last night, it's unacceptable the amount of times he got it wrong, same goes with Garnacho. It was the same against Newcastle and Everton too. Our wingers are atrocious. It's a bigger issue with Neto than it is most other players because he has been made untouchable by Maresca. The guy plays in every game.

On the ball neto is average, 1v1 is simply not his strong suit. Very similar to Garnacho. It is what it is.

15 minutes ago, The Boehly Babes said:

People need to open their eyes and see this stat padding fraud is holding the entire side back.

The longer Maresca insists on playing Mr ‘Run into dead end after dead end’ at RW instead of an actually talented player like CP or Estevao the longer this club will remain an absolute embarrassment.

Dont let his headless chicken routine fool you he’s a horrible player keeping CP from playing in his strongest position.

Not his fault the manager doesn't just play him on the left and keep using him as a work horse to cover Cucurella like against PSG.

Neto absolutely has his uses but Maresca is setting him up to failure expecting him to produce any real qualify in 1v1s or with goals or assists.

Neto is becoming (or always has been) a speed merchant with some finishing ability, but he just doesn't pose enough of a threat in the goals department. He keeps getting in over Estevao for some reason. He scored 4 goals in 35 apps last season. This season is slightly better, but he still flatters to deceive way too often. You add to that, two attackers in Garnacho and Gittens, who aren't decent effective goal scorers, then you get limited amount of goals.

I thought he was good first half, second half complete sh*te. But that could be said for pretty much any of our players.