On 18/04/2022 at 21:40, Vagabond said:

I criticized Jorgi many times. Ask @Gol15. No need to do it for every game.

Yes you did, I can be your witness that you’re not exclusively criticizing Jorginho, if that’s what you want here.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Yes you did, I can be your witness that you’re not exclusively criticizing Jorginho, if that’s what you want here.

That was brutal. Actually don't think I can remember a worse game from him in six years at the club.

 

It’s sad to see him play like this. 

Worse he has ever played for us, passing atrocious, half a yard too late to everything, lost loads of duels. 

These next few games with Kovacic are going to be hard. When he doesnt play, we look a different team. 

Jorginho and Kante havent been the same this season,  and if its choice between extending or selling in the summer, then it has to be the latter for me. Cant be having Kante on 300k a week putting in these sort of performances. 

Fantastic player for us, and one of our all time greats, but along with Azpi, its time time to move on, as i can see another Ivanovic situation happening.

Woudn't right Kante off yet but he is looking human rather than the exceptional footballer we have been used to. One of his poorest performances I can remember tonight.

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Yes you did, I can be your witness that you’re not exclusively criticizing Jorginho, if that’s what you want here.

Rather that I'm not exclusively criticizing Kante, but yes, nobody is above criticism.

I’m not going to say he’s past it because we don’t know yet but he’s massively out of form 

I love Kante. My fav active Chels player. But that performance was unacceptable tonight. He has nose dived in to mediocrity.

Yeah I’ll sell now. What has happened to Kante. Age caught up I guess.

Edited April 20, 20224 yr by Mana

31 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Woudn't right Kante off yet but he is looking human rather than the exceptional footballer we have been used to. One of his poorest performances I can remember tonight.

He was a long, long way from being our worst performer tonight Nibs. Was definitely overrun at times in midfield as Arsenal have bags of pace in there and also regularly pushed an extra-man up into that area. He cut out a lot of attempted through balls and worked hard, as he always does, to close their players down, but anything that got through to our back line was just a defensive disaster. Even when Silva when came on he did not look comfortable in there.

Tuchel got a lot of things wrong tonight with his starting lineup but I completely understand why he chose to leave Jorginho out given his performance last season in the home defeat to Arsenal. He struggled massively with their pace and movement in midfield and it would have been the same scenario tonight, with probably even more disastrous consequences, given the back line Tuchel picked.

Kante was bad because he can't do the job of loftus cheek too. In fact loftus cheek has no business playing centre midfield, best he looked was on that role against real Madrid which was like a right wing back. 

Can't remember the last Kante game we have seen from Kante. Arguably not seen him hit the heights of CL run last season. There were flashes against Madrid last week but his poor passing, which has been notably bad this season, undid the good work. Starting to think if we get a big bid this summer, we should take it. He has one year left on his contract and he's only playing 50% of our games these days. 

1 minute ago, The Brit said:

Can't remember the last Kante game we have seen from Kante. Arguably not seen him hit the heights of CL run last season. There were flashes against Madrid last week but his poor passing, which has been notably bad this season, undid the good work. Starting to think if we get a big bid this summer, we should take it. He has one year left on his contract and he's only playing 50% of our games these days. 

I tend to agree.  I was in the sell him camp almost two summers ago, and well he proved me wrong with his influence in the Champions League though.  A true legend and the most humble of men, but something is way off.  He is a shadow of the player we once had.

Think Kante, and us, would benefit from having a midfield 3. Help us gain more control.

Can I just say that the video under is a prime example of how important positioning is in midfield?

If Kante stays where he's at at around 7 seconds there Xhaka will not reach Smith Rowe with that ball and Arsenal aren't scoring. Instead he takes a step to the left and open up a highway for Arsenal. And this was pretty much repeated for the entire 94 minutes.

I'm not going to mention any names in this thread but if you don't see the value in a controlling element who can control the pace, keep a bit of possession and be positionally sound defensively after yesterdays game then i'd be astonished.

 

Great man but sometimes injuries take their toll which is happening to Kante, without a doubt we need to look to replace him and jorginho for next season.

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

Can I just say that the video under is a prime example of how important positioning is in midfield?

If Kante stays where he's at at around 7 seconds there Xhaka will not reach Smith Rowe with that ball and Arsenal aren't scoring. Instead he takes a step to the left and open up a highway for Arsenal. And this was pretty much repeated for the entire 94 minutes.

I'm not going to mention any names in this thread but if you don't see the value in a controlling element who can control the pace, keep a bit of possession and be positionally sound defensively after yesterdays game then i'd be astonished.

 

What a load of rubbish that clip was. Can you not see Odegaard moving behind Kante to receive the ball? You really do not have a clue what you are talking about. 

5 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Think Kante, and us, would benefit from having a midfield 3. Help us gain more control.

100%, we need to control the midfield more and that's always harder with just two in there.

I'm surprised Barkley hasn’t been given a go considering how much game time RLC has had.

Like United the midfield area for us has been terribly inconsistent.

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

Can I just say that the video under is a prime example of how important positioning is in midfield?

If Kante stays where he's at at around 7 seconds there Xhaka will not reach Smith Rowe with that ball and Arsenal aren't scoring. Instead he takes a step to the left and open up a highway for Arsenal. And this was pretty much repeated for the entire 94 minutes.

I'm not going to mention any names in this thread but if you don't see the value in a controlling element who can control the pace, keep a bit of possession and be positionally sound defensively after yesterdays game then i'd be astonished.

 

There is a free runner in the middle of the field  and you want kante to stay instead of enganging him. 😱😱😱 

You should applaud kante for his effort, engange player on the ball and then ran back to help sarr. 

Edited April 21, 20224 yr by Bob stark

Just now, Bob stark said:

There is a free runner in the middle of the field  and you want kante to stay instead of enganging him. 😱😱😱 

You should applaud kante for his effort, engange player  on the ball ran back, helped sarr. 

Bob, I think Sindre was criticising Kante for not having eyes in the back of his head!!!! For the record Kante did not have a great game last night, but was nearly always out-numbered in the middle of the park against players with pace and RLC does not offer a lot defensively. Not one player had a good game yesterday but Kante was a long, long way from being our worst performer.

You could pick a half a dozen clips of Jorginho being played round like that from any match he plays and, as we know, he does not have the speed to recover the ground lost and have a second bite at the ball.

For me the biggest criticism should be on Tuchel for how he set the team up particularly that back line and starting with Lukaku a player who looks like he doesn't want to be here..

39 minutes ago, just said:

Bob, I think Sindre was criticising Kante for not having eyes in the back of his head!!!! For the record Kante did not have a great game last night, but was nearly always out-numbered in the middle of the park against players with pace and RLC does not offer a lot defensively. Not one player had a good game yesterday but Kante was a long, long way from being our worst performer.

You could pick a half a dozen clips of Jorginho being played round like that from any match he plays and, as we know, he does not have the speed to recover the ground lost and have a second bite at the ball.

For me the biggest criticism should be on Tuchel for how he set the team up particularly that back line and starting with Lukaku a player who looks like he doesn't want to be here..

You can criticize kante's body shape but I think he expected odegaard to be on his left. 

Nevetheless he ran back, helped sarr against saka but ruben wasn't in correct position clearly (he need to be deeper ) and that was the goal.

For me this kind of post make me hard to like jorgi. I said a million times, Jorgi is such a likeable player but his fans is 😱😱😱

Edited April 21, 20224 yr by Bob stark

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

You can criticize kante's body shape but I think he expected odegaard to be on his left. 

Nevetheless he ran back, helped sarr against saka but ruben wasn't in correct position clearly (he need to be deeper ) and that was the goal.

For me this kind of post make me hard to like jorgi. I said a million times, Jorgi is such a likeable player but his fans is 😱😱😱

Let me just say this and i'm done for the day.

First of all this got nothing to do with Jorginho. "Funnily" enough some of the twats that spend their time hating on Jorginho suggest I got some kind of agenda against Kante. In that case I suggest you go through my post history and see what i've wrote about N'Golo. Either that or piss off with that opinion. I've praised Kante to the hills.

I can call a spade a spade though and don't have a problem with saying Kante had a terrible game yesterday. In that particular clip I used as an example he didn't cut of the pass lane (as he struggled with throughout) or gets close to Xhaka which is what he would have to do if he didn't cut out the passing lane. Both him and Loftus Cheek did track back but neither actually marked any of the Arsenal players that were open so they scored.
He's also had a very underwhelming season in general and made some costly mistakes that contributed to sending us out of the Champions League.

But he's obviously been a fantastic player for us over the last six years. At one point he was the best midfielder in the world. He's just declined due to injuries and isn't anywhere near the same level anymore.

As of Jorginho I don't have any particular feelings for me. But there is literally an agenda against that man. Some even resorts to hit-pieces from Twitter-Twats to put him down. Just insufferable and childish stuff and it's a bit of a disgrace in my opinion. So that's why I like to stand up for Jorginho on occassion as he's been a very good player for us and also a big reason why we are currently Champions of Europe.

 

5 hours ago, Sindre said:

Can I just say that the video under is a prime example of how important positioning is in midfield?

If Kante stays where he's at at around 7 seconds there Xhaka will not reach Smith Rowe with that ball and Arsenal aren't scoring. Instead he takes a step to the left and open up a highway for Arsenal. And this was pretty much repeated for the entire 94 minutes.

I'm not going to mention any names in this thread but if you don't see the value in a controlling element who can control the pace, keep a bit of possession and be positionally sound defensively after yesterdays game then i'd be astonished.

 

That clip legitimately stuck in my head during the game. It's something you see from the likes of Maguire - a half-hearted gamble. You either stick your man or risk the press and at the very least make the pass more difficult.

But the worst part of that play was RLC just watching the ball with zeeeero awareness of the two players around him. 

Edited April 21, 20224 yr by venom2011

14 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

That clip legitimately stuck in my head during the game. It's something you see from the likes of Maguire - a half-hearted gamble. You either stick your man or risk the press and at the very least make the pass more difficult.

But the worst part of that play was RLC just watching the ball with zeeeero awareness of the two players around him. 

Definitely. I would expect TT will really go for him on his role in that counter-attack. Sums up the glaring weaknesses in his game.

Kante played his best football when Jorginho was behind him and when Matic was behind him. He thrives when he has a more free role where he just runs and reads the game, at that role as a box-to-box midfielder he was the best player in the league.

Put him at the base of the midfield and he becomes much more limited in his movement and when he does move, it becomes much more risky as one bad read of where the ball is going or 2 seconds too late opens up a big area of the pitch. On top of it he has shown that he might give away the ball in the midfield while trying to pass forward, this has happened in several big games over the most recent season where we were heavily punished.

Tuchel made this mistake against Real Madrid and it cost us, arguably we needed a high tempo match due to being behind and that tactic worked but then it backfired, now against Arsenal as well it just didn’t work.

Tuchel overestimated the state of our squad at the start of the season, our players can’t play the high level press for a full season without getting burned out.